Shipping Should Be Free

[GARRIGA]

There is no such thing as free - you pay one way or another.

It simply becomes a hidden part of the price.

Exactly. Like rent.

 

[GARRIGA]

Ok you have a fair excuse of buying online :face-with-tears-of-joy:. The two lfs that are close to me (20ish minutes) aren't my favorite, but they do come in a pinch if I need something ASAP.

Closest not where I’d prefer buying. They gauge customers and often times I see them medicating fish which always a concern for me although I get it. Part of selling fish.

 

[xiaoxiy]

I used to get upset with paying shipping prices for livestock, but then tried shipping myself (even through discount website like ship station) and realized how costly and a headache it was.

That’s when I stopped complaining and also have never shipped again.

 

[GARRIGA]

I used to get upset with paying shipping prices for livestock, but then tried shipping myself (even through discount website like ship station) and realized how costly and a headache it was.

That’s when I stopped complaining and also have never shipped again.

I hear you but I take it as a cost of doing business on my end and was the norm most expected free shipping. Not that has changed but competition can change that back quickly. Seems every guy with a tank wants to sell corals. At some point those with a substantial business vs liquidating what would have been trash get together and get shipping costs down to the point it becomes more cost effective to shop from home. Don’t want to hurt LFS but reality is we have moved away from driving to acquire most everything.

Having said that. I’d still prefer buying in person but that’s not everyone yet every now and then I’ll likely see something intriguing yet cost of shipping might deter me away.

 

[I never finish anythi]

The coral supplier I source my corals from only charge £10 for overnight shipping and his corals are cheap so I'm happy with that price tbh .

I know I can't believe you guys pay so much to get corals

Now that’s cheap but likely seller eating some costs which is the point I’m making. Shipping equates to rent paid

More than likely yes . An example ,I had a ny Knicks torch for £70 with delivery. Not sure how good that price is compared to you guys in America, but I was happy with the price

 

[KyleW22]

Shipping prices are insane but I don’t mind paying it if I’m buying a couple items. My time not driving back and forth to LFS is worth more than the $30-40 shipping charge considering most shops are an hour or more from me. Granted, I’m lucky enough to have Aqua Vault as a local store as well as a ton of garage sellers selling good stuff

 

[GARRIGA]

Here's a way to think about what I'm saying.

Imagine going to a frag swap and all in your costs are $300 including table, hotel, gas and dining. Might be more. Might be less. Just an example.

Do you estimate you are going to make 30 transactions therefore charge an extra $10 per transaction or just consider the $300 a sunk cost of doing business and hopefully you come out in the black because some frags might be $10 only while others might fetch $100 plus?

Shipping to me equates to a sunk cost such as rent strictly speaking for those running a business from home although an argument can be made for brick and mortar as well since rent paid was to serve foot traffic and online sales supplement that.

 

[DIYreefer]

Never said anything about not making a profit outside of price losers which is a common business practice to attract traffic.

I’m just questioning why for some sales it doesn’t already include shipping. Think about shipping as a burden similar to paying rent.

Having said that. If price shipped same or better than going to an LFS then for the buyer might be a moot point but when comparing some of these prices after shipping or fact one has to spend a minimum suddenly online not cost effective.

I’m in no way saying garage farmers should operate at a loss. Just that perhaps shipping should be a cost of doing business comparable to the cost of operating a brick and mortar operation where you have additional costs such as rent, insurance and possibly employees because you need to be open enough hours to service clientele.

Rent possibly equals shipping. That’s all.

In that case, prices would likely have to be in line with what you would see at a brick and mortar as well. Granted, in some case you already do see similar (or even higher) pricing.

I think I see your point and agree that it could be applied in some cases, but not for someone like me who doesn’t specialize in the highest ticket corals. If I’m selling $1,000 master scoly then sure, I can totally justify bundling the cost of shipping into the price. However, I would never move a single frag if I charged $75 (shipped) for a Cali Tort. Especially because I would have to basically add $50 to the price of everything I sell, individually. It just doesn’t make much sense.

Bottom line, I’m sure we can all collectively agree that the cost of safely shipping coral frags across the country kinda sucks. That said, buying online clearly isn’t for every reefer but for some of us it’s the only option for obtaining nice, aquacultured stuff. I have far more corals in my spare bedroom, and of a much higher quality, than my only LFS that sells coral does. Without the option of buying online (and paying for the cost of shipping) that wouldn’t even be a possibility.

As far as the price of nubs goes, I agree with you. Lots of stuff is laughably overpriced IMO, so I don’t buy those corals. If someone else sees the value in a $500 booger, more power to them.

 

[GARRIGA]

Depends on how much purple that booger has :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

 

[DIYreefer]

Here's a way to think about what I'm saying.

Imagine going to a frag swap and all in your costs are $300 including table, hotel, gas and dining. Might be more. Might be less. Just an example.

Do you estimate you are going to make 30 transactions therefore charge an extra $10 per transaction or just consider the $300 a sunk cost of doing business and hopefully you come out in the black because some frags might be $10 only while others might fetch $100 plus?

Shipping to me equates to a sunk cost such as rent strictly speaking for those running a business from home although an argument can be made for brick and mortar as well since rent paid was to serve foot traffic and online sales supplement that.

I’ve actually recently implemented this thought process on my eBay listings. I’ve lowered my shipping charge to $40 (which is less than I pay to ship, and that’s not even considering the cost of shipping materials) and increased the prices in my frags by a couple of bucks each. It’s too early to tell as I just did this 2 days ago, but I’m not sure that this was a good strategy. I haven’t sold a single one so far.

The thought is that the lower shipping charge would be more recognizable and appealing than the minor bump in item price would be a deterrent. We’ll see…

 

[GARRIGA]

I’ve actually recently implemented this thought process on my eBay listings. I’ve lowered my shipping charge to $40 (which is less than I pay to ship, and that’s not even considering the cost of shipping materials) and increased the prices in my frags by a couple of bucks each. It’s too early to tell as I just did this 2 days ago, but I’m not sure that this was a good strategy. I haven’t sold a single one so far.

The thought is that the lower shipping charge would be more recognizable and appealing than the minor bump in item price would be a deterrent. We’ll see…

When I shop eBay. I sort by lowest cost shipped. To me. $99 shipped same as $49 plus $50 shipping yet seem to assume the low cost mostly a low ball offer trying to mislead shoppers. Could be just me but added shipping rubs me the wrong way even if final cost same.

 

[Tamberav]

Shipping prices are way to high to be free, only should be free after X amount spent, $300? $350? Idk

Reduced cost for same state shipping is fine too since generally it cost more the farther the package travels.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

There are companies such as Ship Your Reptiles and others which negotiate bulk pricing with FedEx and also provide live delivery insurance should shipment be late and track both points to ensure shipping occurs during safest periods. I believe they’ve now extended this to fish.

Point being. There’s a way to reduce costs and garage farms aren’t paying rent and other burdens carried by brick and mortar and perhaps can increase volume by reducing the overall purchasing cost. Especially for those wanting less than minimum required for free shipping.

Live specialty coral is such a niche market that the volume to make small margins will never be there. People can't give away much of their coral in their local town because the tiny market is saturated. Growers then have to expand nationally where advertising and shipping and labor costs make up a significant portion of the product cost. Just look at the prices of coral from any of the biggest retailers that ship the large quantities of fish. They have agreements in place with shippers, and yet the prices are still high for tiny frags.
Also, I don't think shipping reptiles and extremely sensitive coral is a fair comparison.

 

[kingranch2003]

I suppose I fall into the category of “garage farmer” (although my systems are in a spare bedroom) so I’ll offer my thoughts on this subject. While you are correct in that I don’t incur the same expense of a brick and mortar, I don’t think you’re considering how much work and other expenses go into operating even a small coral propagation operation. Even one as small as mine. Most weeks, I dedicate at least 20 hours of my time to growing corals and I spend roughly $350 per month to run the tanks. Should I not be compensated for that?

Offering completely free shipping is simply unrealistic and wouldn’t make sense for ANYONE to do. I sell the majority of my stuff for <$50. By your logic, I should lose money to ship you a frag. As much as I enjoy aquaculture, that’s not going to happen.

FWIW, over the last two decades I have purchased corals from pretty much all of the biggest and most highly regarded vendors. I’m not kicking them, they are fine. However, the best corals tend to come from the smaller operations and fellow hobbyists. The prices tend to be far better as well. This hobby 100% needs guys like me, or else it would be far more expensive than it already is, and that $50 shipping charge would be a welcomed annoyance.

100%! The personal touch and quality of the corals that come from home hobbyists, like yourself, have always been the best in my experience. It's worth it to me in order get the best selection and service. I'm not going to remember the shipping cost when my reef has exactly what I want growing on it. We need guys like this in our hobby, and they deserve for it to be profitable.

 

[Grossman90]

Needed a good laugh today.

 

[GARRIGA]

Live specialty coral is such a niche market that the volume to make small margins will never be there. People can't give away much of their coral in their local town because the tiny market is saturated. Growers then have to expand nationally where advertising and shipping and labor costs make up a significant portion of the product cost. Just look at the prices of coral from any of the biggest retailers that ship the large quantities of fish. They have agreements in place with shippers, and yet the prices are still high for tiny frags.
Also, I don't think shipping reptiles and extremely sensitive coral is a fair comparison.

Why not fair. Both can be shipped in the same size box. Both overnight. Both have temperature constraints. Both extremely sensitive.

 

[Dr. D]

+1 on PirateShip. You can use it for anything— you don’t have to be a business. There’s no cost to sign up, and it’s easy to use. I’ve saved as much as $40 on a single large package via UPS— even the guy at the UPS store was impressed when I asked what it would have cost had I walked in off the street (not live goods, just a heavy package— can’t speak to shipping live goods).

 

[lbacha]

You keep mentioning that shipping is like rent. This is an inaccurate statement from a business point of view. Rent is a fixed cost. You pay it no matter if you sell corals or don't sell corals. It is also much easier to bake into the cost of a corals since it doesn't change. Shipping on the other hand is a variable cost and is based on the number of orders placed. It isn't based on the $$ value of coral or the number of frags it is based on the order so it is hard to bake into the cost of a coral. If you make shipping free (which by the way it is not free just baked into the cost) then people will be more likely to place smaller orders because there is no benefit in placing a large order. This means I need to bake shipping into the cost of every coral I sell vs baking it into price points like free shipping after $300 which basically equates to a 20% discount for making a large order.

I looked at the shipyourreptile and their base cost is $49 per order so right in line with what most vendors charge for coral so I don't know if that is an example of a better model since people already ship coral for around $50 shipping.

 

[TX_REEF]

shipping corals overnight is too expensive to be free. the packaging is not free either. If there were a way to perhaps have some sort of subscription service or one time purchase for a climate controlled container that could allow for cheaper, slower shipping, then we might make some progress. I don't like paying 30-40-50 dollars for shipping either, but as someone who has dabbled in shipping small items here and there, I totally get it. The alternative to shipping the product is you shipping yourself to the location of the product. which is cheaper and faster?

 

[IntrinsicReef]

Why not fair. Both can be shipped in the same size box. Both overnight. Both have temperature constraints. Both extremely sensitive.

I worked in two pet stores in college. I unpacked many shipments of fish, coral and reptiles over several years. If shipments of corals were delayed, it was usually disastrous. If reptiles were delayed, they were usually fine.