Shipping Should Be Free

[GARRIGA]

If you owned a business and shipped items, I think your tune would change. It’s so stupid expensive to ship these days and none of them will guarantee animals.

Been selling reptiles since the late 80s. Been in finance since the mid 80s. I’m well aware of the cost of doing business.

Check out SYR. Might save you on shipping costs by taking advantage of bulk shipping.

Know this. The cost to an individual or small business considerably higher then those doing bulk orders. Seen where shipping a fishing reel that cost me $30 was $12 when using a bulk account.

Why I suggest joining ranks as an industry and fitting shipping costs. Several business do this for reptiles. Shopping fish and frags not much different. Box overnight is a box.

 

[GARRIGA]

But are garage sellers/small retailers able to negotiate those rates? My understanding is that shipping rate negotiation is only possible for those who are moving very high volumes? My guess (and I'm not the postal service), is that garage sellers are not moving large enough volumes/not shipping enough boxes to make negotiation worth while for the postal service (FedEx, UPS, whoever). I could be wrong.

Check out ship your reptiles. There’s others like it. They combine individual accounts as one account after negotiating with shippers such as FedEx getting 40% or better discounts. I’m surprised that’s not more prevalent with frags.

 

[GARRIGA]

I suppose I fall into the category of “garage farmer” (although my systems are in a spare bedroom) so I’ll offer my thoughts on this subject. While you are correct in that I don’t incur the same expense of a brick and mortar, I don’t think you’re considering how much work and other expenses go into operating even a small coral propagation operation. Even one as small as mine. Most weeks, I dedicate at least 20 hours of my time to growing corals and I spend roughly $350 per month to run the tanks. Should I not be compensated for that?

Offering completely free shipping is simply unrealistic and wouldn’t make sense for ANYONE to do. I sell the majority of my stuff for <$50. By your logic, I should lose money to ship you a frag. As much as I enjoy aquaculture, that’s not going to happen.

FWIW, over the last two decades I have purchased corals from pretty much all of the biggest and most highly regarded vendors. I’m not kicking them, they are fine. However, the best corals tend to come from the smaller operations and fellow hobbyists. The prices tend to be far better as well. This hobby 100% needs guys like me, or else it would be far more expensive than it already is, and that $50 shipping charge would be a welcomed annoyance.

Your time and effort can't be discounted but it's not less for a retail operation. Was in the industry around mid 90s. Saw operation of brisk and mortar first hand both at the retail and wholesale level. All work hard.

 

[DIYreefer]

Check out ship your reptiles. There’s others like it. They combine individual accounts as one account after negotiating with shippers such as FedEx getting 40% or better discounts. I’m surprised that’s not more prevalent with frags.

I think it is, overall. Most of us garage farmers use services such as shipnex or pirate ship. Essentially the same thing as what you’ve described with SYR. That stated, I still have to charge $50 to ship my packages because that’s my cost even with the heavily discounted rates. The fact that I live a few hundred miles from the nearest major airport/shipping hub likely doesn’t help my shipping cost very much.

 

[DIYreefer]

Your time and effort can't be discounted but it's not less for a retail operation. Was in the industry around mid 90s. Saw operation of brisk and mortar first hand both at the retail and wholesale level. All work hard.

Agreed, but based upon the apparent premise of this thread, I should lose money/work for free because I don’t work out of a retail location. If I’ve misunderstood your point then I apologize.

 

[GARRIGA]

If shipping was free across the board then someone buying small quantities of cheaper frags would cause the seller to hemorrhage cash…

Price losers are common practice to draw foot traffic. Perhaps price losers on shipping garners free marketing from those sharing their experience. Perhaps return customers seeking bigger orders. Gotta think big picture.

 

[GARRIGA]

$50-65 for overnight UPS, theres just no way these vendors can absorb that, which is why you see "free" on orders over 250/300, etc.

What gets me, somewhat the same, is that my infinia 230.6 shipped "Free".

That's my point about seeking industry efficiency. In bulk there's steeper discounts. I've mentioned one company but there's more that provide these services for reptiles. They even provide insurance should shipment arrives late and you have DOA. Something no shipper provides. Time for the garage farmers to join together and become an actual business. Brick and mortar has been dying for decades and I don't want to see their demise but would like to see online options lower as that will drive all prices down. Crazy prices for one inch nubs regardless where sought.

 

[rtparty]

Never used it, what kind of rates are we talking about for overnight shipping?

And for the sake of the matter at hand, how do PirateShip rates compare to rates negotiated directly with the shipping service?

Rates vary wildly depending on where you’re shipping. For example, if I ship similar boxes to New York City and Buffalo, NYC will be way more. Sometimes double the cost or more. Even though distance and everything is roughly the same from me

There is far too much variability to estimate shipping costs.

Pirate Ship gives the same discount as the largest shippers out there. I’ve tested this multiple times. It’s usually 70-75% off retail.

Now, another caveat, is the absolute largest shippers can get crazy deals where they pay a flat fee per box no matter the size (within reason) or where it’s going. They will be limited to how many they can send per day. I don’t know the full details here though. I’m sure someone does. I highly doubt any coral farm meets these amounts. For one of the vendors we buy from that has this setup, I’ve heard rumor they can ship up to 10,000 boxes a day before UPS looks to change the plan

 

[GARRIGA]

Absolutely. But many of them are either chop shops or flippers. Most don’t have the space for aquaculture.

True but labor is labor. Meaning that's not an excuse to not absorb shipping costs.

 

[DIYreefer]

Price losers are common practice to draw foot traffic. Perhaps price losers on shipping garners free marketing from those sharing their experience. Perhaps return customers seeking bigger orders. Gotta think big picture.

I had a guy on eBay buy a single $24 frag yesterday and there’s no way for me to implement any sort of minimum purchase price for an order (that I know of) there. With no shipping charge the flood gates would open with people doing the same thing. That’s not a loss loser, that’s warp drive to bankruptcy.

After fees, materials, and shipping I probably made $5 on that sale. Yay! lol. I would have honestly preferred to simply cancel the transaction but if he was willing to pay double the price of the frag, just to ship the frag, then I don’t mind packing it up and shipping it out. Even for just $5.

 

[rtparty]

Been selling reptiles since the late 80s. Been in finance since the mid 80s. I’m well aware of the cost of doing business.

Check out SYR. Might save you on shipping costs by taking advantage of bulk shipping.

Know this. The cost to an individual or small business considerably higher then those doing bulk orders. Seen where shipping a fishing reel that cost me $30 was $12 when using a bulk account.

Why I suggest joining ranks as an industry and fitting shipping costs. Several business do this for reptiles. Shopping fish and frags not much different. Box overnight is a box.

For my company we use Pirate Ship. No one else has come close to their discounts for us.

I’m shipping apparel, not animals

 

[GARRIGA]

I think it is, overall. Most of us garage farmers use services such as shipnex or pirate ship. Essentially the same thing as what you’ve described with SYR. That stated, I still have to charge $50 to ship my packages because that’s my cost even with the heavily discounted rates. The fact that I live a few hundred miles from the nearest major airport/shipping hub likely doesn’t help my shipping cost very much.

Obviously as with any other business there are unique concerns that make cost higher for some then others. Unfortunately that's all part of free market. For example, know a large discus importer in Maryland where his shop near the airport just because all his business online or bulk orders to store.

Still charges shipping

 

[MoshJosh]

I just question the sustainability for a coral specific business (small/garage sellers) that is taking a loss (or at the very least losing some amount of profit) on every transaction. Now this maybe, and probably is, valid for larger brick and mortar stores where they are not just selling you the coral, they have chances to profit off the things they sold/sell you surrounding the coral i.e. the tank, equipment, lighting, food, supplements, salt, etc. They also have the benefit of a store front where they can get in person sales where they don't incur any losses due to shipping.

If these coral specific businesses (small/garage sellers) are offering a service (rare corals, desirable corals, aquaculture, quarantine, etc. that is not offered at a larger store), that people want/are willing to pay for and the way the operate means incurring shipping charges not applicable to larger businesses then that might just be the price people have to pay. . .

That is NOT to say that current coral prices are "fair", that is a whole other topic I will stay out of haha

Also, I am talking about legit sellers here, NOT scammers!

EDIT: Also, if their is a way for small sellers to come together and negotiate shipping rates I am all for it, but getting a bunch of small businesses to all come together, especially in an industry where business, reputable and not, come and go so quickly. . . may be challenging? At least that would be my guess, but hey if it can be done it sounds great.

 

[GARRIGA]

Agreed, but based upon the apparent premise of this thread, I should lose money/work for free because I don’t work out of a retail location. If I’ve misunderstood your point then I apologize.

Not all as it applies to your time and effort.

Stating that absorbing the cost of shipping compensates for the cost saved on rent and running a brick and mortar operation. Something often seen with reptiles until lately. Now it seems all quoted prices plus shipping. That wasn't the case a decade ago. All my quoted included shipping because I wasn't paying rent. However, others still required a minimum which never made sense. Sometimes best lower profits to increase exposure.

 

[Dragen Fiend]

The costs are still high even if you downsize the box/weight. It barely cuts the cost since overnight shipping minimums are high already.

This is why I make larger orders online or find it locally. I don't think vendors can do anything about.

 

[areefer01]

Been selling reptiles since the late 80s. Been in finance since the mid 80s. I’m well aware of the cost of doing business.

Check out SYR. Might save you on shipping costs by taking advantage of bulk shipping.

Know this. The cost to an individual or small business considerably higher then those doing bulk orders. Seen where shipping a fishing reel that cost me $30 was $12 when using a bulk account.

Why I suggest joining ranks as an industry and fitting shipping costs. Several business do this for reptiles. Shopping fish and frags not much different. Box overnight is a box.

If you know this then why are you saying shipping should be free? I am confused.

 

[GARRIGA]

I had a guy on eBay buy a single $24 frag yesterday and there’s no way for me to implement any sort of minimum purchase price for an order (that I know of) there. With no shipping charge the flood gates would open with people doing the same thing. That’s not a loss loser, that’s warp drive to bankruptcy.

After fees, materials, and shipping I probably made $5 on that sale. Yay! lol. I would have honestly preferred to simply cancel the transaction but if he was willing to pay double the price of the frag, just to ship the frag, then I don’t mind packing it up and shipping it out. Even for just $5.

I fully understand that concern but what would it have cost you to pay rent and sell that same frag.

You guys are thinking transactional vs the overall impact of expanding your business by making it more affordable.

For example, retail store doesn't think in terms of single purchases. No way they'd be in business after all expenses trying to narrow it down to a $5 package of food.

Obviously selling a $25 dollar item that costs more to ship isn't feasible but I'm not referring to that and perhaps should have been clearer. Talking about adding shipping on items such as $100 frag. These nubs have gotten crazy expensive and then on top of that there's shipping.

Plus not sure why so expensive to ship something that goes in a 7x7x7 inch box. I believe that's the smallest box where the best rates found and I recall it being a pound or less. Are frags going out in larger and heavier boxes?

 

[Reefer Matt]

True but labor is labor. Meaning that's not an excuse to not absorb shipping costs.

Let’s add up the business cost for a $100 coral with “free shipping”. Shipping cost: $50, box cost $15, credit card fee $3, sales tax: $6-10. Cost to business: ~$75 not including the cost of the coral, time, utilities, or fragging supplies.
Are you suggesting that “basement vendors” should just give away coral, and ship them for free?

 

[GARRIGA]

If you know this then why are you saying shipping should be free? I am confused.

Should have prefaced it with items such as a single $100 frag. I'll correct that now to be clearer.

 

[GARRIGA]

Let’s add up the business cost for a $100 coral with “free shipping”. Shipping cost: $50, box cost $15, credit card fee $3, sales tax: $6-10. Cost to business: ~$75 not including the cost of the coral, time, utilities, or fragging supplies.
Are you suggesting that “basement vendors” should just give away coral, and ship them for free?

Why is the shipping cost $50? I'm suggesting using a service that negotiates bulk pricing.

Customer should be charged sales tax and included in the price should be credit card charges. Brick and mortar charge sales tax and prices assume all paying with a credit card. Cost of box an eaten costs for the convenience of not having a brick and mortar store. Plus why are you paying $15 for a box. I don't pay that. Not for something that would house a single frag.

In the end, garage farmers don't have the other costs associated with brick and mortar.