Shipping Should Be Free

[KrisReef]

Here's an example, LFS pays $60k annually in rent regardless if any frags sold. Lets assume that's all they sell. They expect some larger purchases will offset the smaller sales. They don't expect each transaction to pay a portion of that rent.

Likewise, garage farmer can just assume that $60k in shipping is a cost of doing business in exchange for not paying rent. Hence ignore the recovery of that annual cost per transaction.

If either the home farmer or LFS fails to make enough in sales to offset these costs plus cover other costs including their own salary then both go out of business. In that regard this is a failed business model because it implies there aren't enough sales to support their business model.

I assume the home farmer isn't expecting to survive on sales where it doesn't cover shipping. That's not a business. That's a hobbyist.

In addition, I was very specific in my opening post to imply this free shipping applies to overpriced frags and I went as far as editing it later to specify $100 frag. Was based on seeing online shipping charges by WWC of $39 and just assumed that might be their bulk cost. Been a while since I've shipped animals overnight so I guessed on cost but main point being in the end garage farmers don't have the fix cost of paying rent therefore more leeway to absorb shipping costs assuming they are running a business and same as an LFS expect to generate enough large sales to compensate for smaller transactions.

At this point. I give up. Made my case. I'm sticking to it. Not going to continue explaining it unless asked a specific question vs just replying to assumptions or perhaps I didn't explain myself correctly. It's the internet. Often hard to express a thought and have all grasp it as intended.

YOu sound weary. The thread has been interesting, and often people don't gather the information in the way we hoped they would. Thanks for the thread. Somebody should send you a free frag for the effort and to support the community. I would send you some chocolates but I'm too poor this month. Maybe later in the year? K

 

[KrisReef]

Yup. Has for decades.

I can't figure out why they still have the woman on the box instead of Buffet?

He own's a railroad, he could subsidize frag shipments if he was nice.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Either way, I still haven’t met anyone who got rich from selling coral, fish, and inverts. Either lfs owners or home sellers. There may be a few out there, but the industry is too small, seasonal, and volatile to continuously sustain a stable living, imo. That’s the main reason I can’t ever quit my career for reefing full time. In my area, it is usually necessary to also sell fresh water and reptiles to make ends meet.

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

Either way, I still haven’t met anyone who got rich from selling coral, fish, and inverts. Either lfs owners or home sellers. There may be a few out there, but the industry is too small, seasonal, and volatile to continuously sustain a stable living, imo. That’s the main reason I can’t ever quit my career for reefing full time. In my area, it is usually necessary to also sell fresh water and reptiles to make ends meet.

you know there is an easy way to make a cool million in this biz right?

 

[Dr. D]

As a modest part owner of Buffett's company (Berkshire Hathaway), I can't condone such a thing. :)

 

[Reefer Matt]

you know there is an easy way to make a cool million in this biz right?

Lol! Well, we all don’t have a million dollar coral available, but…

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

Lol! Well, we all don’t have a million dollar coral available, but…

No, it's even easier than that. They say, all you have to do to make a cool million in the fish biz, is start with 2! lol

 

[Tamberav]

Doesn't that million dollar coral come with free shipping and personal delivery?

Seems like it meets the needs of this thread.

 

[Paul - LakesideReefer]

I have no issues paying for shipping. I would like volume discounts as that seems reasonable based on how shipping works but am also willing to take delays in order so everything can ship at once. Understanding a vendors costs and business models is key is setting your expectations. None of these corals/livestock vendors are Amazon and can arrange huge volume deals.

Personally, I like seeing the itemized charges. Include everything: packaging, shipping, fees you need to pass on, etc. I expect a reasonable shipping fee for livestock. Livestock seems like something you want quality shipping over minimizing cost.

Itemizing gets dangerous, I had a large order I sent out earlier this week, the order qualified for free shipping, I actually went back and broke down my costs, it was going from NJ, to Washington state, so cross country, the discounted UPS COST for overnight was $90, the insulated box cost $18, the coral packaging cost was $76 (i used jars and coral shippers to secure them), plus heatpacks and misc packing ( call it $5) , we're talking about $200 in COSTS just to get the corals to the buyer. But, shipping was free. It hurt a bit when I broke it down, but it is what it is.

 

[Dr. D]

No, it's even easier than that. They say, all you have to do to make a cool million in the fish biz, is start with 2! lol

The old saying is, "I'm going to give away my product for free, and make it up on volume."

 

[56longroof]

I personally don't mind paying the shipping costs. But, if something shows up DOA due to poor packaging then I have a problem with paying for shipping.

 

[DIYreefer]

Doesn't that million dollar coral come with free shipping and personal delivery?

Seems like it meets the needs of this thread.

OP should buy it!

 

[CoralNewb]

You keep on saying rent... but rent is not the same as shipping. Rent is a fairly consistent cost from month to month, negotiated via lease. Shipping is nothing like that! Shipping is per orde, so if you run a sale, and a tone of customers order one frag, and you lose money on shipping, then the business costs can be significant! because quite frankly, even a coral farm like Tidal Gardens is not pumping out enough volume to "make a deal" with shipping costs. Customers are also not consistent. How many customers are actually buying frags on a month by month basis? You think by losing money on a single frag, you can get a larger order later on? What is the actual conversion rate on that kind of logic. I'm willing to bet it's extremely low.

 

[Quietman]

Itemizing gets dangerous, I had a large order I sent out earlier this week, the order qualified for free shipping, I actually went back and broke down my costs, it was going from NJ, to Washington state, so cross country, the discounted UPS COST for overnight was $90, the insulated box cost $18, the coral packaging cost was $76 (i used jars and coral shippers to secure them), plus heatpacks and misc packing ( call it $5) , we're talking about $200 in COSTS just to get the corals to the buyer. But, shipping was free. It hurt a bit when I broke it down, but it is what it is.

Exactly my point. Give me the breakdowns and I can compare vendors. It would likely be worth it to me if they had great customer service and a very high survival result to pay more to ensure that I'm getting what I want it in good condition. No matter what the customer is going to pay for shipping, storage, stock, and everything that goes into the coral business. I'd prefer a vendor to trust the customer on understanding necessary costs.

It's when expectations of free shipping start happening because then it goes to the box should be free. I remember when some vendor added box costs and people had issues. It's just business. Be upfront, tell me the costs and if they're fair, that's fine.

 

[fish farmer]

Exactly my point. Give me the breakdowns and I can compare vendors. It would likely be worth it to me if they had great customer service and a very high survival result to pay more to ensure that I'm getting what I want it in good condition. No matter what the customer is going to pay for shipping, storage, stock, and everything that goes into the coral business. I'd prefer a vendor to trust the customer on understanding necessary costs.

It's when expectations of free shipping start happening because then it goes to the box should be free. I remember when some vendor added box costs and people had issues. It's just business. Be upfront, tell me the costs and if they're fair, that's fine.

That's pretty much how I shop. I want to know options for shipping, Fed Ex or UPS, overnight vs ground, etc.

I pretty much shop with three livestock vendors, two of them are regional, the other is southern. I've seen cost cutting on the type of box shipped from one vendor, this vendor also doesn't have the selection of livestock I want, although the shipping is a bit cheaper.

I've started to focus on buying from a closer vendor, even though shipping is a bit more, the packaging is decent. I can offset that cost by buying more items and the product is shipped from a couple states away with similar weather.

I don't know anything about their rent, mortgage, tax write offs, kid's college fund, whether they pay their employees well and they tip good at restaurants.

 

[workhz]

Itemizing gets dangerous, I had a large order I sent out earlier this week, the order qualified for free shipping, I actually went back and broke down my costs, it was going from NJ, to Washington state, so cross country, the discounted UPS COST for overnight was $90, the insulated box cost $18, the coral packaging cost was $76 (i used jars and coral shippers to secure them), plus heatpacks and misc packing ( call it $5) , we're talking about $200 in COSTS just to get the corals to the buyer. But, shipping was free. It hurt a bit when I broke it down, but it is what it is.

Don’t really care about the whole convo of whether shipping should be free or $500 or baked in or sunk cost.

why is your insulated box $18 and coral packaging $76? Seems like there should be a way to bring that down.

Do you buy supplies in bulk?

 

[SliceGolfer]

No, it's even easier than that. They say, all you have to do to make a cool million in the fish biz, is start with 2! lol

Just like when I raced cars. How do you make a small fortune in racing? Start with a large one!

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

Just like when I raced cars. How do you make a small fortune in racing? Start with a large one!

Right! It’s that easy:)

 

[GARRIGA]

But if you raced cars then probably got free sponsored oil changes. Just saying... :)

 

[Reefer Matt]