So confused at what a sump does.

Mackey

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Hey guys,
I don't know if I'm an idiot but I cannot for the life of me figure out what a sump does.
I've had Hob filters running my 75 Gallon saltwater tank for a while and they're just not cutting the mustard so to speak.
I want to upgrade to a sump and make a diy one but I cannot figure out things about it such as:
what is an overflow box and why is it needed
my tank is not drilled, and I heard it has to be drilled, and not sure why. my tank is stocked, how can I drill then?
what size sump do I need?
what do I put in a sump? filter socks? refrigium? carbon? can I use my Hob skimmer in a sump?
how does a sump work if it doesn't have a return pump? what if the pump pumps out water faster then whats going in? will it flood?

Any clarifications would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
 

Reefer Matt

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A sump is basically a smaller aquarium under your main tank that adds more water volume to the system, and hides all the equipment. Ie skimmer, heater, etc. You do not need to drill your tank. I suggest using an eShopps overflow.

You also add a return pump to pump the water back into the tank. The overflow must be adjusted so that during a power outage, the sump won't overflow from water siphoning back down.
 

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WheatToast

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what is an overflow box and why is it needed
The overflow drains water down to the sump. The box should conceal the pipework within and and have little "teeth" in the inlet to prevent debris, snails, etc. from clogging the pipes.
my tank is not drilled, and I heard it has to be drilled, and not sure why. my tank is stocked, how can I drill then?
Overflows often have the pipework passing out the back or bottom panes of glass in the display tank which requires holes to be drilled in the glass. As your tank is stocked, I would recommend a HOB overflow as this eliminates the need to drill. These work by using a siphon to draw water over the rim of the aquarium, so care must be taken to choose a good HOB overflow that is not known for having its siphon unexpectedly break (where no water is passing through the overflow, like when it is full of air). eShopps overflows are a good option from what I have heard, and I have successfully been using a Lifereef Prefilter Overflow. Also note that if water flow passing through the HOB overflow is too low (flow through the overflow is controlled by the return pump), it will fill up with bubbles and break the siphon, so consider what flow rate the overflow can handle and match it to your return pump.
what size sump do I need?
I have heard 1/4 the capacity of the main display is the minimum (ex. 10 gallon sump with a 40 gallon display), but I would go larger as a greater water volume in the whole aquarium system (sump + main display) ensures greater water stability (changes in water quality occur more slowly). Also remember to not completely fill the sump with water since, if the siphon during a power outage (or when the return pump fails), water from the main display will back-siphon to the level of the overflow intake or return nozzle (where water returns from the sump after being pumped through the return pump) depending on which one is placed lower in the main display. For example, if I had a return nozzle positioned a 1/4th of the way down in the main display but my overflow inlet was placed higher up, 1/4th of the main display water will drain into the sump during a power outage.
what do I put in a sump? filter socks? refrigium? carbon? can I use my Hob skimmer in a sump?
All of these will work as well as other equipment that are unnecessary in the main display like heaters. Thermometers should not be placed in the same sump compartment as the heaters as this would result in an incorrectly high temperature reading from the thermometers (by this logic, it is best to put the thermometer in the sump compartment that water comes in contact with before reaching the heater).
how does a sump work if it doesn't have a return pump?
The return pump is a necessary part of the sump. Without it, water cannot leave the sump and water from the main display can only drain through the overflow until the water level in the main display is too low to enter the overflow's inlet.
what if the pump pumps out water faster then whats going in? will it flood?
Flooding will occur. Remember to use a return pump with a flow rate matched with your overflow. If the overflow is clogged, some return pumps come with safety measures to prevent floods (sensors that will shut the return pump off depending on the water level in the sump).
Any clarifications would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
No problem!
 
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WheatToast

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Here is one possible sump setup. Large particles are filtered out by the filter sock at the front of the sump so they do not clog the protein skimmer or media (like carbon). The refugium should also be placed after the filter sock so the copepods coming out of said refugium do not immediately become trapped before reaching the display tank (though do put some coarse filter media after the refugium to prevent large pieces of macroalgae, etc. from leaving the refugium and clogging the return pump and other pumps in the sump):
1659484502087.png
 

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No op your not the only one. Im actually sick and tired of reading about sumps for the last few weeks it hurts my head. This industry lacks so much its unbelievable but the know it all well they know it all.

I recently got two sumps from a local reefer and cant fir the life if me figure out how to plumb it or if it will even work. Water level is another thing never explained.
 

Rmckoy

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Other than all the perks listed above .
simply somewhere to hide eye sore equipment such as skimmers , heaters , cords ,

extra volume to help with stability
 

DanTheReefer

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No op your not the only one. Im actually sick and tired of reading about sumps for the last few weeks it hurts my head. This industry lacks so much its unbelievable but the know it all well they know it all.

I recently got two sumps from a local reefer and cant fir the life if me figure out how to plumb it or if it will even work. Water level is another thing never explained.

Yeah I remember trying to figure that out the first time. Maybe start simple and change it around later. All you need to get the sump going is the overflow drain(s) going in and the return going back up.

A sump going without any equipment is actually decent filtration - for one you get surface skimming as the water drains into the overflow, which is something that only specialized hang on back filters do.
 

WirelessMike

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A sump is basically a smaller aquarium under your main tank that adds more water volume to the system, and hides all the equipment. Ie skimmer, heater, etc. You do not need to drill your tank. I suggest using an eShopps overflow.

You also add a return pump to pump the water back into the tank. The overflow must be adjusted so that during a power outage, the sump won't overflow from water siphoning back down.
Exactly what Matt said. Basically it is a way to increase your water volume and natural filtration. As the water leaves the DT it goes to a chamber in the sump in which most people add a protein skimmer. Then moves to another chamber where some folks will house more biological media like live rock or create a refugium which allows beneficial macro algae a place to grow while eliminating nuisance algae in your display tank. The water then typically moves to a return chamber where your return pump sends the processed water back to your DT. Make sense?
 
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Mackey

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The overflow drains water down to the sump. The box should conceal the pipework within and and have little "teeth" in the inlet to prevent debris, snails, etc. from clogging the pipes.

Overflows often have the pipework passing out the back or bottom panes of glass in the display tank which requires holes to be drilled in the glass. As your tank is stocked, I would recommend a HOB overflow as this eliminates the need to drill. These work by using a siphon to draw water over the rim of the aquarium, so care must be taken to choose a good HOB overflow that is not known for having its siphon unexpectedly break (where no water is passing through the overflow, like when it is full of air). eShopps overflows are a good option from what I have heard, and I have successfully been using a Lifereef Prefilter Overflow. Also note that if water flow passing through the HOB overflow is too low (flow through the overflow is controlled by the return pump), it will fill up with bubbles and break the siphon, so consider what flow rate the overflow can handle and match it to your return pump.

I have heard 1/4 the capacity of the main display is the minimum (ex. 10 gallon sump with a 40 gallon display), but I would go larger as a greater water volume in the whole aquarium system (sump + main display) ensures greater water stability (changes in water quality occur more slowly). Also remember to not completely fill the sump with water since, if the siphon during a power outage (or when the return pump fails), water from the main display will back-siphon to the level of the overflow intake or return nozzle (where water returns from the sump after being pumped through the return pump) depending on which one is placed lower in the main display. For example, if I had a return nozzle positioned a 1/4th of the way down in the main display but my overflow inlet was placed higher up, 1/4th of the main display water will drain into the sump during a power outage.

All of these will work as well as other equipment that are unnecessary in the main display like heaters. Thermometers should not be placed in the same sump compartment as the heaters as this would result in an incorrectly high temperature reading from the thermometers (by this logic, it is best to put the thermometer in the sump compartment that water comes in contact with before reaching the heater).

The return pump is a necessary part of the sump. Without it, water cannot leave the sump and water from the main display can only drain through the overflow until the water level in the main display is too low to enter the overflow's inlet.

Flooding will occur. Remember to use a return pump with a flow rate matched with your overflow. If the overflow is clogged, some return pumps come with safety measures to prevent floods (sensors that will shut the return pump off depending on the water level in the sump).

No problem!
thank you so much for lengthy response, I'll be definitely using this as a reference.
 
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Mackey

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Yeah I remember trying to figure that out the first time. Maybe start simple and change it around later. All you need to get the sump going is the overflow drain(s) going in and the return going back up.

A sump going without any equipment is actually decent filtration - for one you get surface skimming as the water drains into the overflow, which is something that only specialized hang on back filters do.
Thx for your response but how does water flowing through a small tank then back into a bigger tank do anything? isn't all the gunk still going back in the water?
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

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I thought @DanTheReefer was saying that water going through an empty sump would be good filitration, maybe I'm confused though.
Filter socks aren't generally considered "equipment" like skimmers, reactors, etc.
 

DanTheReefer

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Thx for your response but how does water flowing through a small tank then back into a bigger tank do anything? isn't all the gunk still going back in the water?

Sure, as it trickles in there is quite a bit of gas exchange for oxygen etc.
It also skims the surface, so you won't have a film develop on the top surface (see pic), which also increases gas exchange.

You'll also get a good amount of flow in the tank just from the return pump, assuming it's sized correctly


1659493804467.png
 

WheatToast

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I thought @DanTheReefer was saying that water going through an empty sump would be good filitration, maybe I'm confused though.
As the waterflow passing through a sump is generally much less turbulent than the flow in the display system it is connected to, detritus can slowly settle at the bottom of the sump which will need to be periodically siphoned out (and having a refugium with micro-invertebrates can help consume accumulating food). However, using mechanical filtration (socks, sponges, filter rollers, etc.) should remove suspended particles much more quickly, though the sump will still require periodic cleaning.
 

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A sump is basically a smaller aquarium under your main tank that adds more water volume to the system, and hides all the equipment. Ie skimmer, heater, etc. You do not need to drill your tank. I suggest using an eShopps overflow.

You also add a return pump to pump the water back into the tank. The overflow must be adjusted so that during a power outage, the sump won't overflow from water siphoning back down.
Good idea i have an eshopps hob overflow as well and sumps are amazing things they help hide all the equipment and add more water volume so more tank stability. They also are useful for keeping nitrates in check because first you can add live rock and a skimmer to the sump for more filtration to keep nitrates down.
 
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Mackey

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About these hob overflows, I heard that there not super reliable and could spill water all over the floor if the power goes out. is this true and what has been your experience with these? @Jwise @Reefermatt
 
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