UnnamedReef
Active Member
My tank is a 55 gallon DT with 20 gallon sump that's been running for 10 months. For 6 of those, I've battled Prorocentrum dinos, confirmed via microscope. (This is my first SW tank, I let my phosphates get to 0 not knowing it was something I should be aware of, big mistake)
I've tried every subtle method I've come across to beat them over that time frame including daily exhaustive manual removal, raising and maintaining nutrients (NO3 ~10-20 PO4~0.1), sometimes even above those numbers, UV, blackouts + UV (which were effective, for a while but they became resistant), MB7 dosing throughout, silicate dosing to feed diatoms, no water changes, just removing with 5 micron filter socks, reducing light schedule and intensity, you name it. The dinos used to have complete control of every inch of available space on the rocks, glass, sump, and always concentrated in the sand bed. My tank has matured and I've been able to reduce them to JUST the sand bed, but never removing them from it. Over the past weeks I've considered a rip clean, and today I went for it. This thread is intended to document my process and experience for others' knowledge, not to discuss how other folks have been successful beating dinos with more reasonable methods like the above.
Tank overview:
- 10 months old, 55 gallon with 20gal sump (as above)
- 1 firefish, 2 royal Grammas, 1 molly, 1 bangai cardinal fish, 2 clown fish
- 9 nassarius snails, ~10 trochus snails, 2 turbo snails
- 3 aiptasia eating peppermint shrimp
- Mixed reef with various corals, 2x MP40QDs
- Patches of coralline, but not a ton
Equipment:
- 57, 17, 9 gallon HDX tough totes, thoroughly hosed down and fully dried
- 10 gallon glass (former) QT tank
- misc bubble stones, heaters, power heads
- InstantOcean salt
- 200 gpd RODI unit
- Several 5 gallon buckets, used for water changes and such
I made 70 gallons of RODI water the night before. Mixed to match temp/salinity of DT, power head and heater in both 53 and 17 gallon totes overnight to maintain parameters for the AM. Replaced DI resin and ensured 0-1 TDS of output water prior to making water.
I started in the morning by basting the return pump section of the sump with a filter sock over the outlet to catch any loose detritus, I let that run for a few minutes basting occasionally. Discarded filter sock into "dirty" pile.
Drained 10 gallons of DT water, filled holding tank. Added basic HOB filter with no cartridge, bubble stone, heater, net top, and ammonia alert tag. Let that run and stabilize.
Removed and cleaned power heads/overflow. Set aside.
Drained DT water to fill 9 gallon tote and several buckets for rock/coral holding.
Removed loose coral (on rocks by themselves or easily detachable) and put them in the holding tank.
Removed trochus and turbo snails. Used a toothbrush to clean shells, rinsed them in DT, then put them in the sump.
Removed all rock work carefully around the fish, put in appropriate sized totes and buckets. All totes, buckets, and holding tanks had heaters set to 79 degrees and thermometers to ensure adequate heating.
Caught fish in colander, NOT a net. Transferred to holding tank with loose coral.
Removed peppermint shrimp and transferred to sump, plenty of aiptasia to keep them busy.
Strained sand and removed all 9 nassarius snails. Transferred to holding tank with fish and coral.
Finished draining tank with siphon, dumped remaining water.
Removed sand bed with dust pan, rinsed 70x with tap water until clear with hand agitation (see glass test photo, which was taken after 50x rinsing. 20x more completed to ensure cleanliness of sand bed. I did not rinse my sand when I first got it, which was a big mistake. Rinsed 2x at the end with RO water, then 1x with fresh SW at correct salinity. I am using CaribSea live fine sand. Set aside.
Shop vac clean empty DT until dry. Added 10 gallons of tap water, used razor blade and toothbrush to clean glass/seams. Shop vac until dry again. Evacuate with 10 gallons of RODI water and splashing. Shop vac again. Evacuate with 5 gallons RODI water, shop vac again until dry.
Dump sand into DT. Fill with pre-prepared SW at temp/salinity match to sump. Reinstall MP40s and overflow. Double check salinity and temp, and turn on return pump + power heads. Install new filter sock. Allow to stabilize.
Baste rocks in their heated old DT water thoroughly to remove detritus. Scrub GHA with toothbrush as necessary (I didn't kill all GHA, I wasn't concerned with it. I have snails to feed, and dinos need something to outcompete them). Once basted, transfer to clean SW tote at same temp/salinity. Baste again thoroughly, then transfer to DT. Repeat for all rock and coral.
Waited 1 hour for system to stabilize, added 2x ammonia alert badges and monitored temp/salinity. Since those were held standard throughout, they matched the holding tank. Transferred fish back in, one at a time, and observed behavior. Still observing (I have today and tomorrow off work).
I will continue to update this thread with findings and further outcomes. I'm not kidding myself that this is the end of my fight with dinos. They've firmly kept control of the sand bed throughout the last 6 months, this cleaning was intended to wipe the sand bed and give me a fighting chance to drive competition going forward. I will continue all aforementioned dino prevention methods, but yes I expect regrowth. I hope from this point I can manage it and (hopefully) finally defeat them rather than play catch-up. Otherwise, you'll see some good deals in the For Sale forum (kidding, I'll never give up).
This was a ton of work, I started at 6 am and it's 3pm as I type this. You must have a plan going into this; for me it was critical to have all fresh SW and RODI water ready to go and walk through exactly what I was putting where the day before. This was basically a 2 day exercise.
So far all fish are fine and most of my coral is open and happy. Zoa's, Duncan's, dendro, toadstool, palys, gorgonian all out and doing fine. Lights are off, and will be ramped back up over the next week to ease coral acclimation. Finger leather seems unhappy, nothing new there.
Again please do not use this thread to discuss what worked for you personally beating dinos, I'm past most conventional methods and I've read all those threads. The intent of this post is to document how this goes so others can use this information to make an informed plan of attack if they determine a rip clean is right for them. If this goes south and my tank recycles I want it out there for others' caution.
And a massive thank you to @brandon429 for the work and testimonials he's put together on this topic. I was very gun-shy on this approach for months, but now I'm at the end of the line with these dinos.
Shayne
I've tried every subtle method I've come across to beat them over that time frame including daily exhaustive manual removal, raising and maintaining nutrients (NO3 ~10-20 PO4~0.1), sometimes even above those numbers, UV, blackouts + UV (which were effective, for a while but they became resistant), MB7 dosing throughout, silicate dosing to feed diatoms, no water changes, just removing with 5 micron filter socks, reducing light schedule and intensity, you name it. The dinos used to have complete control of every inch of available space on the rocks, glass, sump, and always concentrated in the sand bed. My tank has matured and I've been able to reduce them to JUST the sand bed, but never removing them from it. Over the past weeks I've considered a rip clean, and today I went for it. This thread is intended to document my process and experience for others' knowledge, not to discuss how other folks have been successful beating dinos with more reasonable methods like the above.
Tank overview:
- 10 months old, 55 gallon with 20gal sump (as above)
- 1 firefish, 2 royal Grammas, 1 molly, 1 bangai cardinal fish, 2 clown fish
- 9 nassarius snails, ~10 trochus snails, 2 turbo snails
- 3 aiptasia eating peppermint shrimp
- Mixed reef with various corals, 2x MP40QDs
- Patches of coralline, but not a ton
Equipment:
- 57, 17, 9 gallon HDX tough totes, thoroughly hosed down and fully dried
- 10 gallon glass (former) QT tank
- misc bubble stones, heaters, power heads
- InstantOcean salt
- 200 gpd RODI unit
- Several 5 gallon buckets, used for water changes and such
I made 70 gallons of RODI water the night before. Mixed to match temp/salinity of DT, power head and heater in both 53 and 17 gallon totes overnight to maintain parameters for the AM. Replaced DI resin and ensured 0-1 TDS of output water prior to making water.
I started in the morning by basting the return pump section of the sump with a filter sock over the outlet to catch any loose detritus, I let that run for a few minutes basting occasionally. Discarded filter sock into "dirty" pile.
Drained 10 gallons of DT water, filled holding tank. Added basic HOB filter with no cartridge, bubble stone, heater, net top, and ammonia alert tag. Let that run and stabilize.
Removed and cleaned power heads/overflow. Set aside.
Drained DT water to fill 9 gallon tote and several buckets for rock/coral holding.
Removed loose coral (on rocks by themselves or easily detachable) and put them in the holding tank.
Removed trochus and turbo snails. Used a toothbrush to clean shells, rinsed them in DT, then put them in the sump.
Removed all rock work carefully around the fish, put in appropriate sized totes and buckets. All totes, buckets, and holding tanks had heaters set to 79 degrees and thermometers to ensure adequate heating.
Caught fish in colander, NOT a net. Transferred to holding tank with loose coral.
Removed peppermint shrimp and transferred to sump, plenty of aiptasia to keep them busy.
Strained sand and removed all 9 nassarius snails. Transferred to holding tank with fish and coral.
Finished draining tank with siphon, dumped remaining water.
Removed sand bed with dust pan, rinsed 70x with tap water until clear with hand agitation (see glass test photo, which was taken after 50x rinsing. 20x more completed to ensure cleanliness of sand bed. I did not rinse my sand when I first got it, which was a big mistake. Rinsed 2x at the end with RO water, then 1x with fresh SW at correct salinity. I am using CaribSea live fine sand. Set aside.
Shop vac clean empty DT until dry. Added 10 gallons of tap water, used razor blade and toothbrush to clean glass/seams. Shop vac until dry again. Evacuate with 10 gallons of RODI water and splashing. Shop vac again. Evacuate with 5 gallons RODI water, shop vac again until dry.
Dump sand into DT. Fill with pre-prepared SW at temp/salinity match to sump. Reinstall MP40s and overflow. Double check salinity and temp, and turn on return pump + power heads. Install new filter sock. Allow to stabilize.
Baste rocks in their heated old DT water thoroughly to remove detritus. Scrub GHA with toothbrush as necessary (I didn't kill all GHA, I wasn't concerned with it. I have snails to feed, and dinos need something to outcompete them). Once basted, transfer to clean SW tote at same temp/salinity. Baste again thoroughly, then transfer to DT. Repeat for all rock and coral.
Waited 1 hour for system to stabilize, added 2x ammonia alert badges and monitored temp/salinity. Since those were held standard throughout, they matched the holding tank. Transferred fish back in, one at a time, and observed behavior. Still observing (I have today and tomorrow off work).
I will continue to update this thread with findings and further outcomes. I'm not kidding myself that this is the end of my fight with dinos. They've firmly kept control of the sand bed throughout the last 6 months, this cleaning was intended to wipe the sand bed and give me a fighting chance to drive competition going forward. I will continue all aforementioned dino prevention methods, but yes I expect regrowth. I hope from this point I can manage it and (hopefully) finally defeat them rather than play catch-up. Otherwise, you'll see some good deals in the For Sale forum (kidding, I'll never give up).
This was a ton of work, I started at 6 am and it's 3pm as I type this. You must have a plan going into this; for me it was critical to have all fresh SW and RODI water ready to go and walk through exactly what I was putting where the day before. This was basically a 2 day exercise.
So far all fish are fine and most of my coral is open and happy. Zoa's, Duncan's, dendro, toadstool, palys, gorgonian all out and doing fine. Lights are off, and will be ramped back up over the next week to ease coral acclimation. Finger leather seems unhappy, nothing new there.
Again please do not use this thread to discuss what worked for you personally beating dinos, I'm past most conventional methods and I've read all those threads. The intent of this post is to document how this goes so others can use this information to make an informed plan of attack if they determine a rip clean is right for them. If this goes south and my tank recycles I want it out there for others' caution.
And a massive thank you to @brandon429 for the work and testimonials he's put together on this topic. I was very gun-shy on this approach for months, but now I'm at the end of the line with these dinos.
Shayne
