Sodium Nitrate Dosing...Help!!

[Docdiggy]

I screwed up causing a domino effect. I thought it would be a good idea to ditch my old sump that had a good amount of crud in the bottom and make a sump from a 55 gal. I never used to test Nitrate or Phos in those days. I'm thinking back and it crossed my mind that I probably zeroed out my trates. All SPS started to die a few months later. THEN I overdosed the sodium nitrate which in turn probably plummeted my phos. It's been a tough road.

 

[ScottB]

probably something else. Ive been dosing it for years with great results. The main problem with dosing nitrates is that it can cause phosphate levels to plummet. Because free nitrates will stimulate algae growth to absorb all of the phosphate. It is important to test phosphate pretty frequently and make sure it stays above .03. In a normal system when nitrates are high phosphates will almost always be high as well because of the high phos content in foods.

Funny, I was about to type a follow up question to my original post asking this very question (potential to lower PO4). In your case, did you then dose phosphate as well? With what product?

Though Hanna says 0 PO4, and Red Sea says 0 NO3, I know I have some nutrient, as I have to clean the glass every couple of days and my macroalgae (big handful size) is healthy but relative static in size. Frags stay pretty clean due to active tang and lawnmower blenny. Haven't run the skimmer in 2 weeks. Just making and dumping so much fish/coral food for the last 3 weeks and nada.

On the bright side, corals are all fine, but those sticks that paled are still pale. Alive, some PE and new growth, but pale.

 

[Docdiggy]

I never dosed Phos because it was always higher than my trates. I started to lose PE and it was all downhill from there.

 

[drawman]

I never dosed Phos because it was always higher than my trates. I started to lose PE and it was all downhill from there.

Yeah low PO4 really can take a toll on acros. I've had it happen before too with dosing NaNO3 and it happens quickly!

 

[Docdiggy]

I was ready to throw in the towel. I'm still dealing with it, but I'm glad I have a better understanding now. It really sucked watching things die everyday.

 

[ScottB]

I screwed up causing a domino effect. I thought it would be a good idea to ditch my old sump that had a good amount of crud in the bottom and make a sump from a 55 gal. I never used to test Nitrate or Phos in those days. I'm thinking back and it crossed my mind that I probably zeroed out my trates. All SPS started to die a few months later. THEN I overdosed the sodium nitrate which in turn probably plummeted my phos. It's been a tough road.

Sorry to hear. More than a few tough lessons for me too -- especially on my earlier, smaller systems. And yes, your theory on that cleanup sounds probable.

 

[ScottB]

@Docdiggy and @drawman
You are making me rethink this a bit. My PO4 is already low. Some sticks are pale, but nothing dying. Plus, I always have some travel stuff happening so cannot do even moderately aggressive stuff.

Maybe I just stick with the old school methods. Where I started I guess in hindsight. What might that look like? Which (one?) of the following actions?

1) dump more food in both DT(140G) and Frag tank(50G) (Mysis, cyclopeze, reef chili, reef frenzy, reef roids, marine snow, kitchen sink)
2) Toss the chaeto
3) Sell the skimmers
4) Reactors have been shut for weeks
5) Extend 20% WC to three weeks from 2 currently
6) Remove some rock & or ceramic media

 

[rock_lobster]

Funny, I was about to type a follow up question to my original post asking this very question (potential to lower PO4). In your case, did you then dose phosphate as well? With what product?

Though Hanna says 0 PO4, and Red Sea says 0 NO3, I know I have some nutrient, as I have to clean the glass every couple of days and my macroalgae (big handful size) is healthy but relative static in size. Frags stay pretty clean due to active tang and lawnmower blenny. Haven't run the skimmer in 2 weeks. Just making and dumping so much fish/coral food for the last 3 weeks and nada.

On the bright side, corals are all fine, but those sticks that paled are still pale. Alive, some PE and new growth, but pale.

Yes I dose both sodium phos and nitrate. Its kinda funny with phosphate and SPS. If phos is low you will have the best sps color youve ever seen tons of yellows and vibrant colors but the sps are actually dangerously low on phosphate and they could be on the brink of RTN. Its a fine line to keep those amazing colors in ULNS.

 

[ScottB]

I am just going to keep gingerly tinkering with my 6 factor for now-- at least until I am not travelling. Don't like the thought of hanging along the brink. Don't want to have to write one of those "here is how it all went south" posts. Been there before.

 

[drawman]

@Docdiggy and @drawman
You are making me rethink this a bit. My PO4 is already low. Some sticks are pale, but nothing dying. Plus, I always have some travel stuff happening so cannot do even moderately aggressive stuff.

Maybe I just stick with the old school methods. Where I started I guess in hindsight. What might that look like? Which (one?) of the following actions?

1) dump more food in both DT(140G) and Frag tank(50G) (Mysis, cyclopeze, reef chili, reef frenzy, reef roids, marine snow, kitchen sink)
2) Toss the chaeto
3) Sell the skimmers
4) Reactors have been shut for weeks
5) Extend 20% WC to three weeks from 2 currently
6) Remove some rock & or ceramic media

I think the "old school way" definitely makes things easier...especially with travel. Just my opinion but if I were you I would try a mix of feeding more, thinking about removing ceramic media, and potentially reducing or removing chaeto. I think it is good to keep a skimmer online for aeration and it won't completely kill your nutrients. I've found in my smaller tank that ceramic media (siporax) is way too efficient at reducing nutrients and I've been in the process of removing it. Good luck!

 

[rock_lobster]

I think the "old school way" definitely makes things easier...especially with travel. Just my opinion but if I were you I would try a mix of feeding more, thinking about removing ceramic media, and potentially reducing or removing chaeto. I think it is good to keep a skimmer online for aeration and it won't completely kill your nutrients. I've found in my smaller tank that ceramic media (siporax) is way too efficient at reducing nutrients and I've been in the process of removing it. Good luck!

Just like dosing anything else carbonate, clacium.. Once you get it dialed in you can go weeks without checking. If you are relying on sporadic feeding to provide nutrients thats just the same as manually dosing alkalinity pretty unreliable and very tedious. Especially if you travel a lot then dosing is the clear 100% winner.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, nitrate and/or phosphate too high is much better than too low. So keep that in mind when devising strategies.

Main risks to too high is browner corals and algae.
Main risks to too low are dying corals and dinoflagellates.

 

[BigJohnny]

I dose KNO4 and KH2PO4 and one thing I learned is tht the dose you need to build your nutrients back up is more than what you will need once you get them back to the level you need. I believe this is due to nitrate and Phosphate binding with the rocks and essentially creating a natural buffer. The benefit of this buffer is that if you don't dose for a day or two the nutrient levels will stay up as the bound nutrients in the rock are released into the water. I usually start slow now and wait a few days to a week before making any changes to my dosing schedule. The nice thing is once you get the dose dialed in it doesn't fluctuate a lot unless you make a major change

What actual changes have you seen in your tank and corals?

 

[BigJohnny]

I gave up on dosing that stuff. I'm sure it was probably something else, but corals started declining while using it. I'm gonna try low ALK and low nutrients and see what happens. I'm not sure if the LPS will suffer with an ALK of 8 or not.

Did you use stump remover or lab/reagent grade/planted tank products?

 

[rock_lobster]

What actual changes have you seen in your tank and corals?

thats definitely true it takes a while to get phosphate up if its been zero for a long time. It has completely leached out of the rocks.

 

[BigJohnny]

thats definitely true it takes a while to get phosphate up if its been zero for a long time. It has completely leached out of the rocks.

Not sure what you mean, I think you quoted the wrong post

 

[SaracensRugby]

Once you start dosing sodium nitrate, which lower phosphates, should you dose some form of phosphate?
Also, how quickly should you test for nitrate after dosing? 214 hours later, 1 hour later?

 

[BigJohnny]

Once you start dosing sodium nitrate, which lower phosphates, should you dose some form of phosphate?
Also, how quickly should you test for nitrate after dosing? 214 hours later, 1 hour later?

Dosing sodium nitrate doesn't lower phosphates but it can lead to conditions favorable for certain bacteria and algaes (among other things), which can in turn reduce phosphate as a result. Just like everything in reefing, there are no single correct answers to your questions, because every tank is different. It also depends on your current parameters and what you are trying to achieve. If you can provide more info on your system/ parameters/what is going on/what you are trying to achieve, people can give you better advice.

 

[SaracensRugby]

Dosing sodium nitrate doesn't lower phosphates but it can lead to conditions favorable for certain bacteria and algaes (among other things), which can in turn reduce phosphate as a result. Just like everything in reefing, there are no single correct answers to your questions, because every tank is different. It also depends on your current parameters and what you are trying to achieve. If you can provide more info on your system/ parameters/what is going on/what you are trying to achieve, people can give you better advice.

Should have provided my details up front: I have a newer tank, 4 months and roughly 155 gallons total water volume, that has a combo of rock from my previous tank (2 years old) and cycled rock. In each tank, I have never been able to get readings of nitrate or phosphate using salifert and now red sea test kits. Currently I am going through a diatom bloom for a few weeks running, which as a side note seems to energize when I do water changes, but still no readings. I know I have to go through the new tank stuff for the first year so I want to be clear I am not trying to sidestep the natural process these tanks go through to find some sort of equilibrium. And in this tank I have a triton style sump (no filter socks) so there is more detritus hanging around than the previous tank which had filter socks replaced every other day. I have a Vertex Omega 150 skimmer, which I have tuned into skimming not real wet, but not dry. And it smells bad either way. I have 13 fish, and feed what I think is heavy: pellets once or twice a day, combo frozen Larrys original/herbivore once a day, maybe frozen mysis once a day, Zoplan every few days, flakes every few days, and nori sheets once a day for the tang, fox face, and sailfin blenny (who never touches it so open to ideas on what to feed this character).
ALK 7.8
Mag: 1410
Calc: 420
SAL: 34.5

Just looking to raise my nitrates to 3-5ppm, nothing more. I have a chaeto ball in my sump being lit by a Kessil H160, which I am going to turn down the total time it is on. I dose 2 part daily with my ghl, but have never dosed nitrate before so want to make sure I don't crash things by dosing too much too fast.

 

[BigJohnny]

Should have provided my details up front: I have a newer tank, 4 months and roughly 155 gallons total water volume, that has a combo of rock from my previous tank (2 years old) and cycled rock. In each tank, I have never been able to get readings of nitrate or phosphate using salifert and now red sea test kits. Currently I am going through a diatom bloom for a few weeks running, which as a side note seems to energize when I do water changes, but still no readings. I know I have to go through the new tank stuff for the first year so I want to be clear I am not trying to sidestep the natural process these tanks go through to find some sort of equilibrium. And in this tank I have a triton style sump (no filter socks) so there is more detritus hanging around than the previous tank which had filter socks replaced every other day. I have a Vertex Omega 150 skimmer, which I have tuned into skimming not real wet, but not dry. And it smells bad either way. I have 13 fish, and feed what I think is heavy: pellets once or twice a day, combo frozen Larrys original/herbivore once a day, maybe frozen mysis once a day, Zoplan every few days, flakes every few days, and nori sheets once a day for the tang, fox face, and sailfin blenny (who never touches it so open to ideas on what to feed this character).
ALK 7.8
Mag: 1410
Calc: 420
SAL: 34.5

Just looking to raise my nitrates to 3-5ppm, nothing more. I have a chaeto ball in my sump being lit by a Kessil H160, which I am going to turn down the total time it is on. I dose 2 part daily with my ghl, but have never dosed nitrate before so want to make sure I don't crash things by dosing too much too fast.

Are you having any actual issues in the tank? Why do you want 3-5ppm nitrate?