Spotted Mandarins- Tail Fin spot/hole!

[Mhoover1481]

Hello everyone, some what new to this so forgive me.

I currently have a male and female pair of Spotted Dragonets, I’ve had them for over a year now. They eat lots of copepods and peck all day, as well as have been trained to accept frozen foods.

Recently, I noticed BOTH male and female fish have developed white spots or blotches on their tail fins, the female also has a hole directly through her tail fin in the area of the white blotch.
To me, it definitely looks like degradation, I believe there is something wrong 100%.
But I cannot identify what it is, what’s causing it, or how to fix it.

So please, fellow reefers, chime in and help me get these 2 back to their former healthy state!!!

(Both fish have been undergoing feedings with food soaked in Selcon and Garlic Guard, as well as swapping between kanaplex and metroplex medicated food.)

Here’s some tank info below

(Tank Mates)
-A pair of Very small juvenile ocellaris Clowns.
- A very small “2-“3 Tomini tang
-1 Cleaner shrimp
-2 Sand Conchs
- several trochus, astrea, and turbo snails
-and of course, some bristleworms.

(All tank mates above have been peaceful thus far, no nipping or bulling, everyone has been a model citizen!)
The fish even often swim and eat together.

(Parameters)
Salinity- 1.0264
Alkalinity- 8.1 DKH
Calcium- 480/500 ppm
Magnesium- 1350 ppm

Nitrite- 0ppm
Ammonia- 0ppm
Nitrate- undetectable
Phos- 0.06

I hope I’ve given enough information to receive some advice!
Also, pics of the mandarin’s have been added!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello everyone, some what new to this so forgive me.

I currently have a male and female pair of Spotted Dragonets, I’ve had them for over a year now. They eat lots of copepods and peck all day, as well as have been trained to accept frozen foods.

Recently, I noticed BOTH male and female fish have developed white spots or blotches on their tail fins, the female also has a hole directly through her tail fin in the area of the white blotch.
To me, it definitely looks like degradation, I believe there is something wrong 100%.
But I cannot identify what it is, what’s causing it, or how to fix it.

So please, fellow reefers, chime in and help me get these 2 back to their former healthy state!!!

(Both fish have been undergoing feedings with food soaked in Selcon and Garlic Guard, as well as swapping between kanaplex and metroplex medicated food.)

Here’s some tank info below

(Tank Mates)
-A pair of Very small juvenile ocellaris Clowns.
- A very small “2-“3 Tomini tang
-1 Cleaner shrimp
-2 Sand Conchs
- several trochus, astrea, and turbo snails
-and of course, some bristleworms.

(All tank mates above have been peaceful thus far, no nipping or bulling, everyone has been a model citizen!)
The fish even often swim and eat together.

(Parameters)
Salinity- 1.0264
Alkalinity- 8.1 DKH
Calcium- 480/500 ppm
Magnesium- 1350 ppm

Nitrite- 0ppm
Ammonia- 0ppm
Nitrate- undetectable
Phos- 0.06

I hope I’ve given enough information to receive some advice!
Also, pics of the mandarin’s have been added!

Looks like a fin ray issue from aggression but may be bacterial. Clowns would be my suspect but observe from from a distance especially at feeding time for aggressive behavior

 

[Mhoover1481]

Looks like a fin ray issue from aggression but may be bacterial. Clowns would be my suspect but observe from from a distance especially at feeding time for aggressive behavior

The clowns stay up in the top corners of the tank, but do interact with the mandarins occasionally. Always very peaceful, even eating live brine alongside the mandarins and always friendly.
All fish have lived together for a year+ now, I’ve never once seen aggression, not even when first adding new fish.

Also, the mandarins have went through several rounds of Kana and Metro soaked food bound with Seachem Binder.
Still, no improvement in their condition.
Very odd.

 

[MnFish1]

I would not be feeding antibiotics in food - since you can't manage the dosage correctly. If the fish stops eating - they are underdosed - if they eat too much it's a problem - and kanamycin can be toxic. Since you don't know the exact dose that your fish are getting you can't be sure about the inciting event.

The most likely would be an injury from the clowns - or a sting from something. I agree with Vetteguy - if you're going to treat with antibiotics - you should treat in a separate hospital tank - with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Since you've already given kanamycin, some bacteria may be resistant - which means they may also be resistant to neomycin. So - another broad spectrum antibiotic like Maracyn II may be beneficial. I don't see any reason for metronidazole (Metroplex) - unless there are intestinal issues.

 

[Mhoover1481]

I would not be feeding antibiotics in food - since you can't manage the dosage correctly. If the fish stops eating - they are underdosed - if they eat too much it's a problem - and kanamycin can be toxic. Since you don't know the exact dose that your fish are getting you can't be sure about the inciting event.

The most likely would be an injury from the clowns - or a sting from something. I agree with Vetteguy - if you're going to treat with antibiotics - you should treat in a separate hospital tank - with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Since you've already given kanamycin, some bacteria may be resistant - which means they may also be resistant to neomycin. So - another broad spectrum antibiotic like Maracyn II may be beneficial. I don't see any reason for metronidazole (Metroplex) - unless there are intestinal issues.

I would not be feeding antibiotics in food - since you can't manage the dosage correctly. If the fish stops eating - they are underdosed - if they eat too much it's a problem - and kanamycin can be toxic. Since you don't know the exact dose that your fish are getting you can't be sure about the inciting event.

The most likely would be an injury from the clowns - or a sting from something. I agree with Vetteguy - if you're going to treat with antibiotics - you should treat in a separate hospital tank - with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Since you've already given kanamycin, some bacteria may be resistant - which means they may also be resistant to neomycin. So - another broad spectrum antibiotic like Maracyn II may be beneficial. I don't see any reason for metronidazole (Metroplex) - unless there are intestinal issues.

I really appreciate you taking the time to give me some information, you’ve brought up some really good points about under dosing and over dosing the medication due to not being able to control the exact dose. I do not currently have a hospital tank, just my DT. Is there any other advice you could give me, anything else I could try to do? This pair of Mandarin’s mean the world to me, and I’d be totally gutted to lose them. I mean, they’re wild caught and I trained them to eat prepared foods, they even spawn often and eggs end up all over the glass. My favorite fish! Also, I used Metro as a last ditch effort to fight whatever is ailing them, per my LFS. But in hindsight, you’re right. It’s for parasitic issues and I believe my mandarin’s are battling a bacterial issue!

 

[MnFish1]

It is rather easy to set up a hospital tank especially for 2 mandarins - the issue would be having live rock for them to eat - though it sounds like yours are doing well on that front. Then dose maracyn II as directed - its possible that its just fin damage as compared to infection - Another possibility would be just watching it - and if its getting worse - do the hospital/treatment route. If not worsening or improving - you've solved your problem (unless the other fish are continuing what everyone thinks is aggression

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hello everyone, some what new to this so forgive me.

I currently have a male and female pair of Spotted Dragonets, I’ve had them for over a year now. They eat lots of copepods and peck all day, as well as have been trained to accept frozen foods.

Recently, I noticed BOTH male and female fish have developed white spots or blotches on their tail fins, the female also has a hole directly through her tail fin in the area of the white blotch.
To me, it definitely looks like degradation, I believe there is something wrong 100%.
But I cannot identify what it is, what’s causing it, or how to fix it.

So please, fellow reefers, chime in and help me get these 2 back to their former healthy state!!!

(Both fish have been undergoing feedings with food soaked in Selcon and Garlic Guard, as well as swapping between kanaplex and metroplex medicated food.)

Here’s some tank info below

(Tank Mates)
-A pair of Very small juvenile ocellaris Clowns.
- A very small “2-“3 Tomini tang
-1 Cleaner shrimp
-2 Sand Conchs
- several trochus, astrea, and turbo snails
-and of course, some bristleworms.

(All tank mates above have been peaceful thus far, no nipping or bulling, everyone has been a model citizen!)
The fish even often swim and eat together.

(Parameters)
Salinity- 1.0264
Alkalinity- 8.1 DKH
Calcium- 480/500 ppm
Magnesium- 1350 ppm

Nitrite- 0ppm
Ammonia- 0ppm
Nitrate- undetectable
Phos- 0.06

I hope I’ve given enough information to receive some advice!
Also, pics of the mandarin’s have been added!

It's great that you've had these for so long, and have them feeding well!

Are you seeing any other symptoms? Rapid breathing, scratching, loss of appetite? Are the spots growing in size?

If not, I would wonder if these are from aggression?

As said, don't feed medications in food unless you dose it properly. This post delves into that:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/proper-dosing-of-medicated-foods.765689/

 

[Mhoover1481]

It's great that you've had these for so long, and have them feeding well!

Are you seeing any other symptoms? Rapid breathing, scratching, loss of appetite? Are the spots growing in size?

If not, I would wonder if these are from aggression?

As said, don't feed medications in food unless you dose it properly. This post delves into that:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/proper-dosing-of-medicated-foods.765689/

No rapid breathing or scratching.
I have noticed the female is somewhat slowing her eating habits down.
The spots do seem to have grown in size.

I appreciate you commenting on this post and hope to hear back from you soon!
I am trying to figure out the best plan of attack to keep these mandarins healthy and get them through this!!