Store Credit No Refund??

[Lbrdsoxfan]

To add to this topic .
to avoid the issues of challenging whos eating what loss , I would much rather see what im buying .

from that point of bag this for me please . There is nothing for me to argue

I'm fortunate of my location that we have a lot of LFS and a great market of folks fragging and selling as individuals. The concept of ordering coral or livestock for shipping is foreign to me. I'm close to ordering a fish online, only because it's been hard to find it locally.

 

[Rmckoy]

That's how it works, crappy ain't it.

I get it ….,
it’s a tough world when we all have families to feed
With all the online orders , when did people not care what somethbg looked like before dropping money on it ?

I can’t imagine paying hundreds for something I saw a picture on a website but what I paid for is not exactly as seen unless specified (wysiwyg )

 

[Rmckoy]

I'm fortunate of my location that we have a lot of LFS and a great market of folks fragging and selling as individuals. The concept of ordering coral or livestock for shipping is foreign to me. I'm close to ordering a fish online, only because it's been hard to find it locally.

I will never settle for ordering livestock online .

 

[Tamberav]

I would prefer a refund but most don't do this.

If you are worried they might ship a sick coral, I would find a different vender. There are some I feel would never purposely ship sick corals... cultivated reef and battle corals come off the top of my head.

There was one well known vender that sent an acro with acro eating flat worms on it. I don't think they did this on purpose... (they have wild acros and cultured, guessing something got through).. even though their store policy is credit... they gave me a refund. I think when you catch something that bad... they can't just credit you and make you pay shipping again ;)

 

[albano]

Hey everyone I want to share my opinion on something I’m tired of seeing.

“If coral arrives is doa , we DO NOT do refunds only “store credit”.

like what type of policy is that? I don’t think that’s fair to put you into that position where you’re stuck even if they shipped to you and it died you’re still stuck with them no matter what …

What’s your policy with DOAs?

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I will never settle for ordering livestock online .

I was close, I didn't say I did. I'm waiting on my local importer guy to get back in October and hope I can find what I'm looking for through him.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Do businesses not have insurance ?

does insurance not cover things like dead livestock , lawsuits , thefts etc ?

what happens if someone walks into your store and slips on a wet floor or trips over something walking into your store ?

In a word no! Insurance is only meant to cover real big losses like damage to your building or inventory loss through theft. If you think you can call the agent and make a claim evey time you lose a $50or more coral you have no understanding of how insurance actually works. I just lost over $1400 due to blatant destruction of a pallet of material shipped to a fabrication company in Montana. The shipment was covered by proper packaging and markings on the oak pallet. The shipping company literally must have run over the pallet as 3/4 of it was destroyed along with the freight. Long story short I had to fire a company as my go to shipper after more than 25 years of doing business together. My insurance company calls the the cost of doing business so no help there!

Honestly, I believe all of you are experiencing exactly what you paid for. If you guys would support local fish stores and buy in person this would not be the condition of the hobby today. I would only buy in quantity that enable airport to airport shipping to reduce the shipping cost per item and mitigate the cost of dealing with FedEx or UPS. These companies do not insure animal transport and the cost per pound is highway robbery. Set up a group buy and share the cost with your local club and pick it up at the airport. If you are remote you are getting the best service you are ever going to get from both the vendor and the shipper. Your level of expectation is way beyond the ability of any company to deliver given the mountain of hurdles in front othe buyer and seller. It is a bad business model period.

 

[JaimeAdams]

So the way I’m understanding this .
if you ship a coral and it’s dead when I receive it , you still have to make money so you will charge me $50 to ship another to me .
But technically i would already be out the initial price plus shipping , now as the consumer I took my business to you not expecting dead livestock , I have to pay shipping twice ?

I did not say that I had to make money, said that I would prefer not to lose money. Just playing Devils Advocate here. Let's say the coral was $60 and shipping is flat rate $50. It's really costing me $70 after I pay for the box and heat pack and gas to ups though. So the $60 coral us dead. If I refund you $60 I lose $20 plus whatever cost I have into the coral. If I resend the coral it's costing me another $20 in hidden shipping cost but at the end of the day I may have made $20 minus whatever cost I had into the 2 coral.

That is why the majority of companies only offer store credit. The are already absorbing some of those costs.

As far as UPS or FedEx cost if shipping, no vendor is making money,no one refunds shipping that shipping costs.

Do businesses not have insurance ?

does insurance not cover things like dead livestock , lawsuits , thefts etc ?

what happens if someone walks into your store and slips on a wet floor or trips over something walking into your store ?

As others have said, that is not the same thing and no, no one insures a dead box of coral.

I had Delta pull one of my commercial shipments off of 3 flights in LA 2 weeks ago. When I finally got it a day late there was 1 Acropora in a box left alive and half my fish were dead. $3,000 and a big welp that's how it goes some times.

 

[KrisReef]

I did not say that I had to make money, said that I would prefer not to lose money. Just playing Devils Advocate here. Let's say the coral was $60 and shipping is flat rate $50. It's really costing me $70 after I pay for the box and heat pack and gas to ups though. So the $60 coral us dead. If I refund you $60 I lose $20 plus whatever cost I have into the coral. If I resend the coral it's costing me another $20 in hidden shipping cost but at the end of the day I may have made $20 minus whatever cost I had into the 2 coral.

That is why the majority of companies only offer store credit. The are already absorbing some of those costs.

As far as UPS or FedEx cost if shipping, no vendor is making money,no one refunds shipping that shipping costs.


As others have said, that is not the same thing and no, no one insures a dead box of coral.

I had Delta pull one of my commercial shipments off of 3 flights in LA 2 weeks ago. When I finally got it a day late there was 1 Acropora in a box left alive and half my fish were dead. $3,000 and a big welp that's how it goes some times.

^ This is what the shipper is up against on every shipment.
- Sorry, opening those cloudy bags and hoping there is something still alive inside is always an ugly day.

I had a coral shipper on here ship me the wrong order. I was expecting coral frags and they sent me a Hanna Checker?! I waited a week for them to figure out what they had done before I tried to contact them. They never replied. I gave the Checker to my buddy at the LFS, free. I think the order + shipping was +$200. and I chose to eat it.

I accidentally ordered from the same "crew" again recently. Mistake #2? They had a specific coral I have been looking to obtain a frag of. That order came on time, no isues. The frag I dumped in my neglected tank and it is doing great. Was my risk the second time any greater (or lesser) than the first time I tried to buy from them?

My buddy with a LFS just got out of the business. Everyone is buying dry goods on line and then coming into the LFS wanting deals on coral. He quit shipping because "the costs and risk were not worth it." If folks keep buying stuff on line and demanding a deal then very soon the LFS will become hard to find and we will always have to pay for shipping and then pray that the fish and coral were still alive when they sealed the bag.

 

[MnFish1]

Hey everyone I want to share my opinion on something I’m tired of seeing.

“If coral arrives is doa , we DO NOT do refunds only “store credit”.

like what type of policy is that? I don’t think that’s fair to put you into that position where you’re stuck even if they shipped to you and it died you’re still stuck with them no matter what , if you place a coral order for a specific coral and it came doa you should have every right to get your money back not a “store credit”. What are you guys thoughts? I’m seeing a lot of online vendors doing this nonsense now almost all , it sucks , I miss old school reefin :(

Not going to read the rest - just because I don't want my opinion to be influenced.

I think you are wrong. 1. You know the risks of shipping corals. 2. There are (probably) a lot of people - that say 'it's dead' when it is not. 3. If you wanted coral xxx - and it died - now you have a credit whereby you can buy coral xxx. You are being treated fairly, IMHO. This is also part of the reason that I rarely buy corals online. But - again - just my opinion.

 

[MnFish1]

But most businesses also have insurance to cover for these setbacks .
This is highway robbery.
sell and ship a near dead frag and still make money from it ?

store credit is better than nothing.

This is why I refuse to buy corals online

This is not correct. And - good for you - I refuse to buy corals online as well

 

[MnFish1]

Hey everyone I want to share my opinion on something I’m tired of seeing.

“If coral arrives is doa , we DO NOT do refunds only “store credit”.

like what type of policy is that? I don’t think that’s fair to put you into that position where you’re stuck even if they shipped to you and it died you’re still stuck with them no matter what , if you place a coral order for a specific coral and it came doa you should have every right to get your money back not a “store credit”. What are you guys thoughts? I’m seeing a lot of online vendors doing this nonsense now almost all , it sucks , I miss old school reefin :(

Sorry - I was under the impression you were dealing with an LFS - at first. My answer to your specific question - you are wrong - buy another coral and forget about it.

 

[MnFish1]

You forget you bought something living and it is their responsibility until it reaches your door in the

You forget you bought something living and it is their responsibility until it reaches your door and the transaction completes If it died in transit that is on them.

NO - it's not. And in this case - they gave the OP a store credit - which replaces what he bought. Once it leaves their store - Lets say there is a multiple day delay at Fedex - how is that the original store's responsibility?

 

[MnFish1]

So the way I’m understanding this .
if you ship a coral and it’s dead when I receive it , you still have to make money so you will charge me $50 to ship another to me .
But technically i would already be out the initial price plus shipping , now as the consumer I took my business to you not expecting dead livestock , I have to pay shipping twice ?

Yes - if you buy online. Just like - for example - you bought a coral from an LFS 4 hours away from you - when you got it home - you realized it had a disease after a couple days. You would have to drive the 4 hours back and forth to get your coral

 

[MnFish1]

Liability insurance is completely different than covering live animals losses... No one insures for that.

I disagree. For a price - someone will insure everything.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I disagree. For a price - someone will insure everything.

But at what cost? With the high level of losses due to the sensitivity of livestock and coral, I couldn't even see a insurer willing to remotely consider getting into the aquatics game for coverage against loss. It will be about as ugly as a degenerate gambler betting the rent check on black at the roulette table :eek:.

Or we could just call Lloyd's of London, they insure legs and vocal cords, let's see the premium for some high end acros and rare fish :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:.

 

[MnFish1]

But at what cost? With the high level of losses due to the sensitivity of livestock and coral, I couldn't even see a insurer willing to remotely consider getting into the aquatics game for coverage against loss. It will be about as ugly as a degenerate gambler betting the rent check on black at the roulette table :eek:.

Or we could just call Lloyd's of London, they insure legs and vocal cords, let's see the premium for some high end acros and rare fish :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:.

The point being. Everything is insurable - at a price. That price may not make sense for a business - and my guess is that unless one is shipping rare colonies - as compared to finger-nail sized frags - that it would not be cost effective.

 

[Rmckoy]

I disagree. For a price - someone will insure everything.

Similar to here … we can buy pet insurance .
insure your pets which it covers most things normal families couldn’t afford if they were to take their pets to the vet

 

[MaxTremors]

Bingo. If you don't like the terms do not order and complain later. Just move on or order from someone else that has terms you agree with. If the majority do the same they may have to change their policies. Since many have similar policies it seems enough buyers are ok with it.

The problem is that most vendor’s TOS aren’t crystal clear and they don’t say what happens if there is a carrier delay (or they say they’re not responsible). Also, I don’t think OP is complaining after the fact, they’re talking about how these policies are unfair to the consumer, and they’re not wrong. There’s nothing wrong with discussing it or stating you think that such policies are anti-consumer.

 

[MaxTremors]

NO - it's not. And in this case - they gave the OP a store credit - which replaces what he bought. Once it leaves their store - Lets say there is a multiple day delay at Fedex - how is that the original store's responsibility?

It’s the original stores responsibility because the shipping is part of their business model. When I order corals, I pay shipping to the vendor, not to the shipping company (and I have no choice I who they use). I am paying for a product and paying for the shipping, if I don’t get what I ordered, I shouldn’t have to pay shipping again, I fulfilled my end of the sales agreement (I mean rhetorically, not talking about TOS), it shouldn’t be up to me to pay for shipping again to be made while (receive what I ordered and paid for). When I buy something from Amazon, and it doesn’t arrive, or is broken, or isn’t what I ordered, I get a refund for the entire price I paid, shipping included (I have Prime, but if you don’t they refund shipping). I personally don’t have an issue with store credit vs a refund, but shipping should be free on any replacement, the consumer shouldn’t have to pay for shipping twice (or 3, 4, 5+ times if it’s continually DOA).