Stratosphere help

[SaltyWalty]

I can keep acros all day long but this zoa will be the death of me. I have had this stratospher zoa for near 7 months and it was initially doing fine, actually grew two new heads relatively quickly. However over the past two months or some it has looks unhappy. Not opening all the way and its edges look curled when it is open. I moved it to lower light where it is now and no change.
I have many other zoas that are happy and wide open including ones at the same light level.
Nothing as far as equipment or parameters has changed in several months. I have several acros, a few clams, and many other corals in the tank that are doing good and growing well. It seems to just be this zoa this is unhappy.
Parameters:
Salinity: 1.026
Alk: 7.8dkh
Ca: 420
Mg: 1370
Nitrate: 11
Phosphate: 0.08
Temp: 78-79
pH: 8.20-8.40ish I don’t usually see swings lower or higher than this from night to day. I have an apex, and a Milwaukee pH monitor and use kalk to help elevate suppressed pH at night.
Lighting I have 3 AI primes over a 40 breeder tank.
Good but not too strong of flow
I do weekly water changes of 20%
(I intentionally keep my alk between 7.5-8.0dkh, and this has not changed since the zoa was doing fine)



The aptasis are feeding my attempts at raising Berghia nudibranch up large enough to start breeding

 

[ShakeyGizzard]

have you measured the PAR where the zoa is at

 

[ShakeyGizzard]

keep the aptasia off of it also

 

[SaltyWalty]

keep the aptasia off of it also

The aptasia are off it and have never been on it.
The par was originally around 150 and it was doing fine, grew two new heads then when it stoped open and started curling I moved it to around 75 par. I run an AB+ spectrum with a bit more white

 

[littlebigreef]

Mine are in about 100 pr and do well.

Have you tried dipping them? They seem to be doing the slow fade. But they’re still trying to extend. I might do 3-4days on with a mild chemiclean/lugols bath, 10-12mins.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I feel you, I got grim reaper zoa last year, $150 for one polyp, it survived for a year but refused to thrive and eventually died. It was in a softie tank, full of zoa's and mushrooms, etc.. I tried moving it around the tank, but nothing worked. Everything thrives in my 3 tanks, but that one most expensive zoa refused to live in my tank.

 

[SaltyWalty]

Mine are in about 100 pr and do well.

Have you tried dipping them? They seem to be doing the slow fade. But they’re still trying to extend. I might do 3-4days on with a mild chemiclean/lugols bath, 10-12mins.

I’ll try a chemiclean treatment but Other than an iodine bath what dips would you do?

 

[littlebigreef]

I’ll try a chemiclean treatment but Other than an iodine bath what dips would you do?

I usually do chemiclean, lugols and metroplex and found that to be pretty effect for different bacterial/protozan issue. I also have cipro and Amox but those are harder to find and pretty expensive.

Its my experience that Bacterial/protozan issues and malnutrition are the 1 and 2 killers of zoas. Your guys are hanging on so there still some hope, but, they look pretty rough. At this point I'd try a series or two of dips and see if that breaks the slow fade.

 

[MERKEY]

I'd move it far away from the aiptasia.

Aiptasia release toxins regularly to kill other corals in their area.

They don't have to touch them.

I'd move them to an isolated area far from aiptasia and see if they show any signs of recovery.

 

[SaltyWalty]

I usually do chemiclean, lugols and metroplex and found that to be pretty effect for different bacterial/protozan issue. I also have cipro and Amox but those are harder to find and pretty expensive.

Its my experience that Bacterial/protozan issues and malnutrition are the 1 and 2 killers of zoas. Your guys are hanging on so there still some hope, but, they look pretty rough. At this point I'd try a series or two of dips and see if that breaks the slow fade.

Thank you again! I am a medical professional so I have access to most antibiotics if you think they would be more effective for a dip. I also have the proper means of disposal for any treated water.

 

[littlebigreef]

Thank you again! I am a medical professional so I have access to most antibiotics if you think they would be more effective for a dip. I also have the proper means of disposal for any treated water.

That’s awesome. Most folks fail to realize dipping is just part of keeping some zoas strains.

What is the proper avenue for disposing of medications in water?

 

[ChiCity]

Thank you again! I am a medical professional so I have access to most antibiotics if you think they would be more effective for a dip. I also have the proper means of disposal for any treated water.

good to see md’s not freaking about using AB’s

What is the proper avenue for disposing of medications in water?

same q?
(maybe a pass through a lil bag of carbon?)

 

[MERKEY]

That’s awesome. Most folks fail to realize dipping is just part of keeping some zoas strains.

What is the proper avenue for disposing of medications in water?

I believe we will agree to disagree.

I don't think it's part of keeping some zoas. Or part of keeping any coral in general.

Torches seem to be the newest in this sad cycle. KFC dip them all.

I have many many reef friends that have very high end systems that never dip their strats or other expensive zoas....or torches.

I think thats part of some personal hobbiest protocol. I've definitely dove into that rabbit hole.

The continued dipping means something is off in the system that the zoas don't like.

Be it what it may..bacterial, toxin etc.

I think thats hard for some people to understand and accept that dipping isn't the cure all and just a bandaid.

 

[SaltyWalty]

That’s awesome. Most folks fail to realize dipping is just part of keeping some zoas strains.

What is the proper avenue for disposing of medications in water?

It depends on the medication, as most drugs react differently but for some dropping the pH will usually break down the medications into a nonfunctional form, or adding some kind of string oxidizing agent (peroxides, or bleach), UV would also work for some I’m not sure the duration your need to run the meds through UV.
I have done a strong bleach for treated water.
Also a lot of medication have a short half life so if you drop the pH and let them sit for a while they should break down.
Also want to clarify I am not an MD.

 

[SaltyWalty]

I believe we will agree to disagree.

I don't think it's part of keeping some zoas. Or part of keeping any coral in general.

Torches seem to be the newest in this sad cycle. KFC dip them all.

I have many many reef friends that have very high end systems that never dip their strats or other expensive zoas....or torches.

I think thats part of some personal hobbiest protocol. I've definitely dove into that rabbit hole.

The continued dipping means something is off in the system that the zoas don't like.

Be it what it may..bacterial, toxin etc.

I think thats hard for some people to understand and accept that dipping isn't the cure all and just a bandaid.

I can definitely understand both points of view
I’d think it definitely is possible for some species of zoa to be more prone to infection or disease and there for regular dips would act as a treatments not a cure.
However if there is something wrong the system I am not sure how to fix that as a whole.
As someone who works with medications that is where my initial thought goes however, I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know what all I’m doing in a reef tank when adding antibiotics.
I’ve also never used a KFC dip, and only ever add OA, or amoxicillin to a reef tank to treat clams or cyano before I figured out that you need to find the cause of cyano.

If you have any input on my situation with the zoa I’d love some help.

 

[MERKEY]

I can definitely understand both points of view
I’d think it definitely is possible for some species of zoa to be more prone to infection or disease and there for regular dips would act as a treatments not a cure.
However if there is something wrong the system I am not sure how to fix that as a whole.
As someone who works with medications that is where my initial thought goes however, I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know what all I’m doing in a reef tank when adding antibiotics.
I’ve also never used a KFC dip, and only ever add OA, or amoxicillin to a reef tank to treat clams or cyano before I figured out that you need to find the cause of cyano.

If you have any input on my situation with the zoa I’d love some help.

Ok, so let's just say dips are necessary, but are becoming over used and looked at as a long term fix rather than addressing the actual issue in the tank.

And the hardest part is hobbiests have 10 different reefers telling you it's something different and to dose different things or try 10 different dips....exaggerated but you get my point.

Before you have to just start dipping your strats every week to keep them...

I'd 1st try move it far far away from the aiptasia.

If your trying to breed aiptasia then they are actively spawning and sending out nasty toxins to kill everything around them so they can multiple and cover more ground.

I believe in this instance your strats are getting nuked by the aiptasia.

I also could be dead wrong.

BUT Moving the zoas is the easiest and best place to start.

Just out of curiosity can we get a picture of your tank to see what your working with?


If the aiptasia are really breeding that could mess with all the corals eventually.

All the burg breeders I know have separate tanks for the aiptasia so this type of coral warfare doesn't happen.

 

[littlebigreef]

I believe we will agree to disagree.

I don't think it's part of keeping some zoas. Or part of keeping any coral in general.

Torches seem to be the newest in this sad cycle. KFC dip them all.

I have many many reef friends that have very high end systems that never dip their strats or other expensive zoas....or torches.

I think thats part of some personal hobbiest protocol. I've definitely dove into that rabbit hole.

The continued dipping means something is off in the system that the zoas don't like.

Be it what it may..bacterial, toxin etc.

I think thats hard for some people to understand and accept that dipping isn't the cure all and just a bandaid.

We can agree to disagree here and that’s fine.

For the most part many strains do fine and don’t require medication.

Factors such as whether you QT corals, actively propagate, or run a UV sterilizer are all contributing factors.

I think some of the research coming from Reef Builders regarding Dissolved Organic Carbons (DOCs) and how that may play a roll in the spread of pathogens is pretty interesting. Admittedly it’s a less well understood area of the hobby. It’s only recently we can start testing with things like AquaBiomics and we don’t even have enough data yet to really understand everything.

I’m not advocating for regular, system-wide treatment but there are times when something is obviously struggling. What are you gonna do? I have some where north of 250 strains. Everything is often fine for long periods of time but occasionally something either arises or gets in there and that’s when I medicate.

 

[SaltyWalty]

Ok, so let's just say dips are necessary, but are becoming over used and looked at as a long term fix rather than addressing the actual issue in the tank.

And the hardest part is hobbiests have 10 different reefers telling you it's something different and to dose different things or try 10 different dips....exaggerated but you get my point.

Before you have to just start dipping your strats every week to keep them...

I'd 1st try move it far far away from the aiptasia.

If your trying to breed aiptasia then they are actively spawning and sending out nasty toxins to kill everything around them so they can multiple and cover more ground.

I believe in this instance your strats are getting nuked by the aiptasia.

I also could be dead wrong.

BUT Moving the zoas is the easiest and best place to start.

Just out of curiosity can we get a picture of your tank to see what your working with?


If the aiptasia are really breeding that could mess with all the corals eventually.

All the burg breeders I know have separate tanks for the aiptasia so this type of coral warfare doesn't happen.

I’ll try and get pictures when I get home. It started out as a berg tank but it is not acting as a temp holding tank while I finish building me main system.
But I’m not sure about the aptasia being the source of the problem. I did move the zoa away from any aptasia. However, I figured other corals would be affected if they were releasing toxins. I have sensitive sps, lps, and plenty of other zoas that are doing just fine.

 

[MERKEY]

We can agree to disagree here and that’s fine.

For the most part many strains do fine and don’t require medication.

Factors such as whether you QT corals, actively propagate, or run a UV sterilizer are all contributing factors.

I think some of the research coming from Reef Builders regarding Dissolved Organic Carbons (DOCs) and how that may play a roll in the spread of pathogens is pretty interesting. Admittedly it’s a less well understood area of the hobby. It’s only recently we can start testing with things like AquaBiomics and we don’t even have enough data yet to really understand everything.

I’m not advocating for regular, system-wide treatment but there are times when something is obviously struggling. What are you gonna do? I have some where north of 250 strains. Everything is often fine for long periods of time but occasionally something either arises or gets in there and that’s when I medicate.

I can appreciate this as well.

We try to keep a box of water like the ocean and expect there never to be issues lol

We add so much unwanted bacteria to our tanks just by putting our hands in the water.

We gotta medicate sometimes.

I think the most successful systems are multiple tank systems with steps to prevent issues as you have stated with help through QT. And yes the DOC is very interesting but unfortunately everything is carbon so it is basically saying everything will play a roll.

Aquabiomics is very helpful and I do hope their research gets broader and can identify more of these biological pathogens.

 

[VintageReefer]

Instead of dipping have your tried a tank wide treatment like chemiclean or cipro

I did a tank wide, 5 day, after lights out cipro treatment, waited 2 days, then did a chemi clean. I had no side effects and didn’t do a water change after. Just let the skimmer run wet and emptied the cup many times