Struggling with (some) Hammers

Enad

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Hi all,

I've been dealing with some Hammer issues the last few months and I've finally gotten to a point where I feel like I need some help.

I have a mature 2 year old mixed reef tank(60 Gallons Display, 20 Gal Sump) that is largely self-sufficient. I do weekly water change and dose some All For Reef a few times a week, Lugols and Restor once a week after my water change, as well as Maganese for my Goni's daily. I feed AB+ a few times a week, and Hydrospace Coral Snow occasionally when I have it.

Lately I've been having some real issues with my Hammers, though it's hard to pinpoint what is going wrong because not only is every other type of coral, including my Acropora and other SPS doing amazing, I have other Hammers within the 'garden' doing fantastic. I've found that many of my Hammers will do great for a few months, and look amazing with no signs of stress or alarm but all the while are slowly losing their flesh bands until it reaches the top of the skeleton and now things are desperate for that coral.

However, again, I have Gold Rainbow and Hologram colonies that have huge flesh bands and have been growing fairly rapidly, to the point where I've trimmed them a few times in just the last few months.

ALL my Hammers are in effectively the same location of the tank. They receive very similar lighting and flow as one another. None of these corals that end up dying or receding show any signs of stress what so ever. Looking at a picture of my Hammer garden, you would think they're booming...until they're not one day.

IMG_0356.jpg

In this picture above, it shows my Hammer Garden. This was taken on Feb 15th and since then, the puffy Orange Hammer and the larger Green with Orange tipped Hammer have both died. Rapidly succumbing to recession and then BJD.


IMG_0318.jpg

In the picture above, it shows a prized hammer colony that I absolutely love and has been absolutely booming for months. Yet as of two days ago, has started to recede in various locations. I've been doing Seachem Iodine Reef Dip treatments every day since it started showing the problem.


There are no other corals touching them. The pictures may show the Goni's/Alveoporas close by but they are further apart in reality and never touch. There are no fish or critters picking at them. I'm at a complete loss.

To add to my confusion, I have a number of Hammers growing out in my sump that are fairly 'neglected'. As in I don't pay attention to them much, don't feed them or anything. They're in low flow and under a Kessil A80 at 50-60% intensity...half the time these Hammers don't even look that great - Yet I've never lost a single one down there. They're all somehow fine. They all have fairly small flesh bands but it's not actively receding, and they continue to slowly grow new heads.

I don't have my absolute current parameters handy at the moment, though I plan on testing tomorrow when I have some more time. My Params from last month are typical, 450ish Cal, ~1500 Mag, 9-10 alk, ~10-20 Nitrate and ~0.5-1 Phos - though I don't believe there's an issue here as, again, the rest of the tank and other hammers in the garden are all doing fantastic and show no signs of imbalance in parameters. I keep things quite simple so there's little room for variance with my parameters anyway.


So yeah, I'm at a loss here and I'm desperate for some help dealing with this. I think my next step is to try a KFC Full Tank Treatment but I'd love some more opinions on what might be going on.
 
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KrisReef

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Agree with this:
" I think my next step is to try a KFC Full Tank Treatment but I'd love some more opinions on what might be going on."

BJD kills to quickly to wait for a magic cure. When it shows up it is time to treat the tank now to minimize the spread and death. Waiting just allows more death to spread.


It is interesting that your sump is ok, and why that has been the case is interesting. My experience is treat now or wait and lose more until you do treat.
 
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Enad

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Agree with this:
" I think my next step is to try a KFC Full Tank Treatment but I'd love some more opinions on what might be going on."

BJD kills to quickly to wait for a magic cure. When it shows up it is time to treat the tank now to minimize the spread and death. Waiting just allows more death to spread.


It is interesting that your sump is ok, and why that has been the case is interesting. My experience is treat now or wait and lose more until you do treat.

Yeah I will treat as soon as I can, unfortunately I just ran out of Cipro and so did KFC so I need to wait on that. However, isn't BJD just the result? I need to figure out what's causing these very happy hammers to rapidly decline.

Do you spot feed your hammers?

I spot feed with AB+ a few times a week. I used to do Reef Roids once every few weeks but I'm just not a huge fan of it, so I don't do it often.
 
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Enad

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Yes I suspect that is what caused the BJD issue, spot feeding

The reef roids in the past or AB+? I haven't done reef roids in probably over a month now. I know plenty of people spot feed their corals, why do you think it's causing issues with BJD for me?


Not saying you're wrong - you may be right, as it could correlate with why my sump Hammers are doing fine. I never feed them.
 

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The reef roids in the past or AB+? I haven't done reef roids in probably over a month now. I know plenty of people spot feed their corals, why do you think it's causing issues with BJD for me?


Not saying you're wrong - you may be right, as it could correlate with why my sump Hammers are doing fine. I never feed them.
Any type of food actually. It’s best not to spot feed the hammers
 
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Any type of food actually. It’s best not to spot feed the hammers

I will certainly stop for now to see if that helps over time, however I've only recently started feeding AB+. After I was having these issues, as I thought perhaps my Hammers weren't getting the energy they needed.

As mentioned in the original post, I have some hammers that are booming and continue to look great, and then others that will look amazing..until they don't. It feels so random, which makes it hard to treat/address.
 

reefpanda

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I will certainly stop for now to see if that helps over time, however I've only recently started feeding AB+. After I was having these issues, as I thought perhaps my Hammers weren't getting the energy they needed.

As mentioned in the original post, I have some hammers that are booming and continue to look great, and then others that will look amazing..until they don't. It feels so random, which makes it hard to treat/address.
Are those that are booming located in a better flow area? That could help with removing trapped food
 
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Are those that are booming located in a better flow area? That could help with removing trapped food
No, as you can see in the picture below, they're all relatively similar position. It's all part of my Hammer garden.

The two I circled in Red have been growing a ton, and have large flesh bands. The two I circled in Orange look great every day and open big, but aren't necessarily growing yet. The uncircled orange hammer and green hammer, those are the ones that died recently after months of doing great and never showing any signs of distress until it was too late.

Same with the Blue tip yellow colony, which is what I'm desperately trying to save right now. It has been massive and booming for months, until just a few days ago it was closing up in a few spots and while dipping I inspected and saw dying flesh band tissue and recession in a few areas.

IMG_0356edit.jpg
 

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Yes I suspect that is what caused the BJD issue, spot feeding
Interesting. Hopefully the OP will find this correlation if it is the reason.

That spot feeding could promote biological activity of microbes on the hammers seems plausible. :thinking-face:
 
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Interesting. Hopefully the OP will find this correlation if it is the reason.

That spot feeding could promote biological activity of microbes on the hammers seems plausible. :thinking-face:

I can understand this being a possible element in the issue, but isn't BJD just the end result of the recession? Would the spot feeding be causing the tissue recession? That seems less likely to me.
 
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KrisReef

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I can understand this being a possible element in the issue, but isn't BJD just the end result of the recession? Would the spot feeding be causing the tissue recession? That seems less likely to me.
BJD is (to my limited understanding) is bacterial growth
- that appears to smother lps by growing over it. Cipro treatments knock out the microbes and the corals quit dying. People who blow off BJD typically observe reinfection unless antibiotics are used?

Target feeding has the potential to overload the coral's surfaces with food. If that food coat promotes rapid bacterial growth, then target feeding might be a catalyst for a mild infection and BJD, once it gets started, seems to ravage systems, one coral at a time.

I stopped target feeding for the most part after observing that many corals would curl up and not appear happy after I had blasted them with a baster during target feeding. Drift feeding generally did not produce the same response, rather corals would open more when they detected much smaller amounts of food than were presented with a baster blast.
 
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BJD is (to my limited understanding) is bacterial growth
- that appears to smother lps by growing over it. Cipro treatments knock out the microbes and the corals quit dying. People who blow off BJD typically observe reinfection unless antibiotics are used?

Target feeding has the potential to overload the coral's surfaces with food. If that food coat promotes rapid bacterial growth, then target feeding might be a catalyst for a mild infection and BJD, once it gets started, seems to ravage systems, one coral at a time.

I stopped target feeding for the most part after observing that many corals would curl up and not appear happy after I had blasted them with a baster during target feeding. Drift feeding generally did not produce the same response, rather corals would open more when they detected much smaller amounts of food than were presented with a baster blast.

Gotcha. I will avoid spot feeding my Hammers for now. I just hope I can save this large colony before it's too late. Bad time for me to run out of cipro.
 
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Still working on getting Cipro unfortunately. In the meantime, I've had a beloved plate coral that I grew from about the size of a dime succumb to some sort of infection from within. I don't think it will survive.

My large HG Hammer colony seems to have stabilized with the iodione dips. I've moved it to low flow and low light in the sump and continue to dip daily, and it's looking better and opening more but still need to solve the underlying bacteria issue causing these problems.

As of this morning, my absolute favorite coral in the tank, my Malaysian Lemon Drop Elegance went from looking like the below pic a few days ago, to nearly melting away completely. I'm doing the best I can with iodine dips, but I really wish I had cipro on hand right now.

IMG_0357.jpeg
 

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Current picture would be more useful than what it used to look like.

How about current water parameters?

I disagree with feeding corals causing an issue. The only time I have had really healthy LPS is when I would feed them 2 or 3 times a week. Never had issues with it causing disease on the corals. Pumps off for 20-30 minutes and then then strong random flow day and night. This is with nitrates 20-30ppm and phosphate .05-1ppm so plenty of nutrients in the water and they still needed supplemental feeding with pellets and chopped frozen mysis or I would get tissue recession.. Torches, Frogspawn, Hammers, Acan, Blastos, Scoly, etc etc

I did experience an attack of BJD that went through the system when a new torch brought it in.. had nothing to do with target feeding.
 

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If long term you've really had close to .7-1.0 phos, then I guess I'd rule that out as the tank looks good, but that's a pretty high number.

I spot feed my hammers, torches, and euphyllia all the time. I could buy in to the argument that spot feeding them if they have an infection could make it worse, but I've never read that they should not be spot fed.

I'd be doing a very careful inspection (which I suspect you are), if any of the other corals appear to have bjd or something you can't ID, I'd focus on that. BJD terrifies me due to the fact that it can spread throughout a tank :(
 
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If long term you've really had close to .7-1.0 phos, then I guess I'd rule that out as the tank looks good, but that's a pretty high number.

I spot feed my hammers, torches, and euphyllia all the time. I could buy in to the argument that spot feeding them if they have an infection could make it worse, but I've never read that they should not be spot fed.

I'd be doing a very careful inspection (which I suspect you are), if any of the other corals appear to have bjd or something you can't ID, I'd focus on that. BJD terrifies me due to the fact that it can spread throughout a tank :(

My phos has always run high, at least according to the Hannah Checker I use. I've always been a bit skeptical of it, but it remains consistent so even if it's not totally accurate, at least it's consistently sitting somewhere. I don't see this as an issue stemming from parameters personally, it definitely seems like some sort of bacterial strain is moving aggressively through my tank.

BJD does occur sometimes, but not always. Sometimes the corals just waste away losing flesh until there's nothing. That's currently what my Plate coral is doing, and my Elegance.

I think beyond doing the KFC full tank treatment, it'd be good for me to invest in an ICP test and see if there's anything crazy going on with my water that I cannot test for. This sudden decline in various other corals outside my hammers has come out of nowhere.
 

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My phos has always run high, at least according to the Hannah Checker I use. I've always been a bit skeptical of it, but it remains consistent so even if it's not totally accurate, at least it's consistently sitting somewhere. I don't see this as an issue stemming from parameters personally, it definitely seems like some sort of bacterial strain is moving aggressively through my tank.

BJD does occur sometimes, but not always. Sometimes the corals just waste away losing flesh until there's nothing. That's currently what my Plate coral is doing, and my Elegance.

I think beyond doing the KFC full tank treatment, it'd be good for me to invest in an ICP test and see if there's anything crazy going on with my water that I cannot test for. This sudden decline in various other corals outside my hammers has come out of nowhere.
I have this on hand in case something happens, and I've read good success stories from a couple people who have used it. Might help!

 
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I have this on hand in case something happens, and I've read good success stories from a couple people who have used it. Might help!


Hmm, that sounds amazing. I will definitely order this and give it a shot. Since I haven't used this before and want to make sure I have enough on hand - is this typically a full tank treatment product or a dip product? How far does the one bottle go, should I order a second?

Thanks!
 

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