Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[4FordFamily]

I don’t have any experience with them but from what I’ve heard they’re not much different than other zebrasoma tangs— perhaps a bit more docile than say a purple.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

I don’t have any experience with them but from what I’ve heard they’re not much different than other zebrasoma tangs— perhaps a bit more docile than say a purple.

That what I figured. I think having the new tang in basically last will help. And it being smaller. My desjardini is really being a jerk.

 

[4FordFamily]

That what I figured. I think having the new tang in basically last will help. And it being smaller. My desjardini is really being a jerk.

They can be. Zebrasoma don’t often hold permanent grudges unlike their acanthurus cousins. The goal of course is to have no or no serious damage before that grudge diminishes.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

bouncing back to this thread. I finally managed to get my majestic angel into my blond naso, desjardini, hippo, scopas and Achilles tank. I had to add a foxface and sohal with the angel to keep the Achilles from tearing them apart. A couple days and it was peacefully. flash forward 3 weeks... the tank got ich ...

I had to tear it all apart to get all the fish into QT while I go fallow.

such a fun hobby!!!

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

So I may sound really well dumb for this question but, no one at my lfs had consistent answers. My tank size is 240 gallons, where I have in order they went in,
1.) hippo, 2.) paired clowns, 3.) my large Naso from my old tank the largest also, 4.) tommini tang, 5.) Lt. Tang 6.) purple tang, 7.) bellus angel (which was only harassed by my female clown 8.) 7 blue green chromies to drive the female clown crazy and stop chasing my angel.

Of all my tangs my Lt. Tang seems to be the boss at times but so does the Naso tang, which is about 6 Inches and all others are half her size, and the Lt is maybe 4 inches. I don’t have any aggression with my tangs, I had a tiny bit between the tommini and purple tang, but as they went at it the Lt tang went after both of them. The same with the female clown after about a week when I added the female bellus angel, she sorta tried to nip my Lt tang in which I’m turn he tail slapped her across the tank and chased her (because she is super slow he slapped her four more times), she stopped and hosted my frogspawn quick. Since then I have no tank aggression in my tank.

I do feed every day and try and put nori in which helps. They don’t fight over food because I give them five pellets of frozen food a day in stages.

The reason I’m asking is my last fish I want is really a Achilles tang or even a powder brown tang. But, most tell me because of the purple tang which shows no aggression at all would just destroy the powder brown or Achilles tangs. Plus I have never had any fish disease in my tank, and I would love to keep it that way, (one way is don’t add new fish). So I’m curious if it would be safe to add either one of those two tangs to my tank. I know fish tk tank ratio either I’m right there or can do one more.

Any suggestions on if this would be a good or terrible idea. If I do it, yes I should do both fish at the same time, but was told that would be even worse by several sources which are opposite of other several sources. In short I’m more confused now than I was when I started thinking about all this.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

well, if that was my tank and I wanted to add an Achilles I would get a nice picture as a screen saver instead.

That is quite a bit of tangs for a 240 and they are all on the kind of mild side ..naso, tomenii, hippo. The mature purples I have seen were all pretty nasty buggers. So you may have a future battle on your hands.

lastly, the Achilles is a VERY sensitive fish. I was very lucky and got a hardy one. (probably because he is THE meanest fish I have ever had).. like "dude, take a chill pill mean" He throws up gang signs, does drive bys slashings, and harasses anyone that doesn't get out if his way.

powder browns are a little hardier but I have had absolutely no luck with them. I have several sensitive fish but I have killed a total of 4 powder blue or browns.

Throwing another tang in there could really stress everyone out and the new guy would probably end up dead.

Also, it sounds like you might not QT your fish because you were reluctant to not add anything that would cause disease.

if that is the case.. I WOULD NOT ADD ANOTHER FISH TO YOUR TANK!!

ich is everywhere... I think that my system got it from some large acan colonies on large rocks that I added.

you want to feel misery? tear apart all the rock work in your 300g SPS tank, catch all the fish and find homes for them for 11 weeks while you go fallow....

just my 2 cents.

 

[Tajaba]

I think you will be fine. Angels can hide in the rocks and go undetected often by a tank full of tangs. Add the centropyge concurrently as well.

I think your mix may work. See them before you buy as many aren’t as handsome as photos, particularly larger and less common acanthurus— much variance among species.

Hey 4FordFamily,

First of all, thankyou so much for this thread and your knowledge. You have helped tremendously with my tang selection and how to successfully put them in the tank. I have a similar question to this one you just answered. I have an ~800 gallon tank that I plan to stock some tangs in. However because the tank was on and off for work/travel etc etc I kind of messed up with my fish queue.

I had 2 Tomini tangs in this tank along with a juvenile Thompson's tang and they were fine for about 4 months. A week ago I added a foxface and a flame angel. For whatever reason, after the flame angel was let out into the tank, the thompson's disappeared completely without a trace. I found the larger tomini with a big bloody wound on his face the day after so I figured something set him off and he probably murdered my Thompson (which was unfortunate for him because it is my wife's favorite fish).

Anyways, because of this I wanted to get your opinion on Tomini's a bit. Honestly I'm surprised I managed to have 2, and they didn't murder each other (one was thrusted on me by a friend because he outgrew his old tank). Will it be possible for me to add any other tang into this tank? I am planning to add 3-4 at the same time to hopefully confuse the tomini pair a little bit. I am planning to put in 2 pacific blues, 1 yellow and possibly either a scopas/sailfin or a purple tang.

Which one do you think have the best chance of working out?

thanks in advance!

 

[4FordFamily]

bouncing back to this thread. I finally managed to get my majestic angel into my blond naso, desjardini, hippo, scopas and Achilles tank. I had to add a foxface and sohal with the angel to keep the Achilles from tearing them apart. A couple days and it was peacefully. flash forward 3 weeks... the tank got ich ...

I had to tear it all apart to get all the fish into QT while I go fallow.

such a fun hobby!!!

Sorry for your struggles, that’s unfortunate

Hello,

So I may sound really well dumb for this question but, no one at my lfs had consistent answers. My tank size is 240 gallons, where I have in order they went in,
1.) hippo, 2.) paired clowns, 3.) my large Naso from my old tank the largest also, 4.) tommini tang, 5.) Lt. Tang 6.) purple tang, 7.) bellus angel (which was only harassed by my female clown 8.) 7 blue green chromies to drive the female clown crazy and stop chasing my angel.

Of all my tangs my Lt. Tang seems to be the boss at times but so does the Naso tang, which is about 6 Inches and all others are half her size, and the Lt is maybe 4 inches. I don’t have any aggression with my tangs, I had a tiny bit between the tommini and purple tang, but as they went at it the Lt tang went after both of them. The same with the female clown after about a week when I added the female bellus angel, she sorta tried to nip my Lt tang in which I’m turn he tail slapped her across the tank and chased her (because she is super slow he slapped her four more times), she stopped and hosted my frogspawn quick. Since then I have no tank aggression in my tank.

I do feed every day and try and put nori in which helps. They don’t fight over food because I give them five pellets of frozen food a day in stages.

The reason I’m asking is my last fish I want is really a Achilles tang or even a powder brown tang. But, most tell me because of the purple tang which shows no aggression at all would just destroy the powder brown or Achilles tangs. Plus I have never had any fish disease in my tank, and I would love to keep it that way, (one way is don’t add new fish). So I’m curious if it would be safe to add either one of those two tangs to my tank. I know fish tk tank ratio either I’m right there or can do one more.

Any suggestions on if this would be a good or terrible idea. If I do it, yes I should do both fish at the same time, but was told that would be even worse by several sources which are opposite of other several sources. In short I’m more confused now than I was when I started thinking about all this.

You could do it, but it is risky. Adding more than one tang is best and I’d highly recommend the use of an acclimation box. Of course, add the fish in the evening just before lights out. Achilles are a great addition but very fragile and also very nasty. LT tangs aren’t usually too nasty, and a Naso tank boss is common and ideal — they’re not very aggressive and can neutralize aggression from other unruly “underlings”.

Ultimately it’s always a risk, be sure you’re ready for “plan B” if something goes awry if you attempt.

I just bought a gem tang so I am nervous as heck! Haha! Have to get it through quarantine!

 

[4FordFamily]

Hey 4FordFamily,

First of all, thankyou so much for this thread and your knowledge. You have helped tremendously with my tang selection and how to successfully put them in the tank. I have a similar question to this one you just answered. I have an ~800 gallon tank that I plan to stock some tangs in. However because the tank was on and off for work/travel etc etc I kind of messed up with my fish queue.

I had 2 Tomini tangs in this tank along with a juvenile Thompson's tang and they were fine for about 4 months. A week ago I added a foxface and a flame angel. For whatever reason, after the flame angel was let out into the tank, the thompson's disappeared completely without a trace. I found the larger tomini with a big bloody wound on his face the day after so I figured something set him off and he probably murdered my Thompson (which was unfortunate for him because it is my wife's favorite fish).

Anyways, because of this I wanted to get your opinion on Tomini's a bit. Honestly I'm surprised I managed to have 2, and they didn't murder each other (one was thrusted on me by a friend because he outgrew his old tank). Will it be possible for me to add any other tang into this tank? I am planning to add 3-4 at the same time to hopefully confuse the tomini pair a little bit. I am planning to put in 2 pacific blues, 1 yellow and possibly either a scopas/sailfin or a purple tang.

Which one do you think have the best chance of working out?

thanks in advance!

If you quarantine your fish, you should be fine with other additions. Tomini can be nasty but larger fish of different shape added in groups just before lights out after some territory moving —- best chance of success. I’d advise against two hippo tangs that could become an ugly divorce. I see several doing this and generally they’re very different in size. IMO they do best in groups of 5+ or singly— or at least that’s the lowest risk. A trio or “quattro” of zebrasoma tangs should be fine if different genus and added together. You can fit a lot of tangs in an 800 gal — I would personally recommend adding a large Naso Tang of some sort to be your “referee” or “neutralizer”.

Naso genus tangs are generally pretty docile and not overtly territorial and smaller nastier tangs will often follow their lead for fear of the dual scalpel beat down that can follow if “tank boss naso” doesn’t approve of the fighting and commotion. An angry naso is a very formidable opponent with two giant scalpels and other fish seem very intimidated by them, even the nasty powder blue will often submit to a large naso especially if it was incumbent.

So that would be my plan of attack in a tank that large! When I build my wall tank that’s my plan!

I have way too many tangs in my 180 (I’ve always done that) but the larger ones will be moved to a giant wall tank. I’d love to have a blonde naso in my 180 but it’s too small and too overstocked — or at least will he soon.

 

[Tajaba]

If you quarantine your fish, you should be fine with other additions. Tomini can be nasty but larger fish of different shape added in groups just before lights out after some territory moving —- best chance of success. I’d advise against two hippo tangs that could become an ugly divorce. I see several doing this and generally they’re very different in size. IMO they do best in groups of 5+ or singly— or at least that’s the lowest risk. A trio or “quattro” of zebrasoma tangs should be fine if different genus and added together. You can fit a lot of tangs in an 800 gal — I would personally recommend adding a large Naso Tang of some sort to be your “referee” or “neutralizer”.

Naso genus tangs are generally pretty docile and not overtly territorial and smaller nastier tangs will often follow their lead for fear of the dual scalpel beat down that can follow if “tank boss naso” doesn’t approve of the fighting and commotion. An angry naso is a very formidable opponent with two giant scalpels and other fish seem very intimidated by them, even the nasty powder blue will often submit to a large naso especially if it was incumbent.

So that would be my plan of attack in a tank that large! When I build my wall tank that’s my plan!

I have way too many tangs in my 180 (I’ve always done that) but the larger ones will be moved to a giant wall tank. I’d love to have a blonde naso in my 180 but it’s too small and too overstocked — or at least will he soon.

thankyou for your advice! I'll definitely see if I can add a naso. Honestly I really love the blond naso's they were the first fish I wanted when I started reef keeping. But I learned too much too quickly and never thought I had a tank that can let them achieve max growth and healthiness. Honestly I still don't think my 800 is enough......

 

[4FordFamily]

thankyou for your advice! I'll definitely see if I can add a naso. Honestly I really love the blond naso's they were the first fish I wanted when I started reef keeping. But I learned too much too quickly and never thought I had a tank that can let them achieve max growth and healthiness. Honestly I still don't think my 800 is enough......

I don’t see a blonde naso outgrowing an 800 if it’s 8-10 feet wide or longer unless it lives close to its full expected lifespan and even then, it’s probably debatable.

8 foot would be short typically but if you have an 800 gal if it’s onkh 8 feet wide I imagine there’s lots of space in there

 

[Tajaba]

I don’t see a blonde naso outgrowing an 800 if it’s 8-10 feet wide or longer unless it lives close to its full expected lifespan and even then, it’s probably debatable.

8 foot would be short typically but if you have an 800 gal if it’s onkh 8 feet wide I imagine there’s lots of space in there

The tank is 3.5 meters (around 11.5 feet) but its only 42 inches wide which is what I was worried about. I heard nasos and unicorn tangs need lots of room to u-turn. I checked most of my LFS and apparently there are no blonde nasos.......lol the search continues

 

[4FordFamily]

I thought I would share my two new additions...

This will be interesting. I had a very good month at work and decided to treat myself to something I said I’d never purchase. A gem tang.

I found this beautiful male Achilles tang on divers den with streamers and a giant teardrop. It has the appearance of a large male 7-8 inches but it’s onky 4.5!

I suspect he will be a terror, but it’s a handsome fish. Hopefully these rampant infections in the hobby don’t dust this batch!

@HotRocks no pressure bro (he has been quarantining my fish recently we switched it up haha)

 

[HotRocks]

I thought I would share my two new additions...

This will be interesting. I had a very good month at work and decided to treat myself to something I said I’d never purchase. A gem tang.

I found this beautiful male Achilles tang on divers den with streamers and a giant teardrop. It has the appearance of a large male 7-8 inches but it’s onky 4.5!

I suspect he will be a terror, but it’s a handsome fish. Hopefully these rampant infections in the hobby don’t dust this batch!

@HotRocks no pressure bro (he has been quarantining my fish recently we switched it up haha)

Spectragram and NFG on hand. What do ya do! Make it work

 

[4FordFamily]

Spectragram and NFG on hand. What do ya do! Make it work

Heck yeah

 

[asmodyus]

So I think my Red Sea sailfin tang Is killing fish I or I have some crazy diseased fish just lost my naso tang who was hiding and not eating got really skinny and also got weird lesions on its body than today his whole side started a huge lesion andater today he passed away

Last week I saw him hit my sunburst anthias real hard and died within several minutes no visabke marks. My other fish seem to be doing okay.

Than week before that my Lrytail anthias started hiding all of sudden than died only aggression In
see not from the Sailfin.

Now both anhtias we newer fish who went through a month QT.

180 gallon Tank mates
4-5" Red Sea sailfin tang or Desjardin's
3-4" Yellow tang
Small yellow belly regal tang
Bellus Angels male and female
2 black Clowns
Midas Blenny
Bicolor Blenny

Azure Damsel
Allen Damsel
Watchman go by

 

[4FordFamily]

So I think my Red Sea sailfin tang Is killing fish I or I have some crazy diseased fish just lost my naso tang who was hiding and not eating got really skinny and also got weird lesions on its body than today his whole side started a huge lesion andater today he passed away

Last week I saw him hit my sunburst anthias real hard and died within several minutes no visabke marks. My other fish seem to be doing okay.

Than week before that my Lrytail anthias started hiding all of sudden than died only aggression In
see not from the Sailfin.

Now both anhtias we newer fish who went through a month QT.

180 gallon Tank mates
4-5" Red Sea sailfin tang or Desjardin's
3-4" Yellow tang
Small yellow belly regal tang
Bellus Angels male and female
2 black Clowns
Midas Blenny
Bicolor Blenny

Azure Damsel
Allen Damsel
Watchman go by

It’s possible, but I’m guessing there is more at play here. That fish has an infection, perhaps from a sustained injury.

If you’re seeing your sailfin fight with tankmates for more than a week after you’re adding them, it’s time to rehome it to an aggressive FOWLR. That problem probably won’t get better.

How long did you have the Naso Tang?

Hiding and not eating is common in velvet. Zebrasoma are one of the hardier tangs that could potentially fight it for a while. Fish aren’t opportunists if a competitor grows weak they’ll exploit it and beat the snot out of it.

 

[asmodyus]

Yeah he was always a picky eater but he was getting noticbly skinner hiding and being very timid and the Sail fin has always been bossy but he seemed to increas in is agression it seems since I tranfered from a 120 to 180 several months ago. As for the Nasso I have had him in the display tank for a couple months and he went through a good month of QT so technically about 3 months now. Yesterday I notied lesion or cuts on the upper back and it looks like in got infectd ant that might have been what killed him. Now all other fish seem fine and are not showing any signs of anything.

 

[Sarah24!]

bouncing back to this thread. I finally managed to get my majestic angel into my blond naso, desjardini, hippo, scopas and Achilles tank. I had to add a foxface and sohal with the angel to keep the Achilles from tearing them apart. A couple days and it was peacefully. flash forward 3 weeks... the tank got ich ...

I had to tear it all apart to get all the fish into QT while I go fallow.

such a fun hobby!!!

Hello,

Lol yeah I have not had any issues with fish disease or anything so I plan to keep that. As much as I would love love to have an Achilles tang in there it’s not worth the risk. My Naso tang does seem to be the boss of the tank, but the Lt, tang is definitely a close second. When my female clown went murder frenzy on my bellus femal angel, the Lt tang ended it when he tail slapped her across the tank, then continued to tail slap her across the tank, and nip at her. I was concerned almost for the clown, she ended up hosting a stinging frogspawn super quick. After she hosted that he stopped and the aggression in the tank stopped. But, I have seen the Naso tang get after the Lt tang and he submits fairly quickly to her, but she is also two to three times larger. She definitely has the huge double scalpels on her tail.

@4FordFamily wow just wow I’m so jealous, of your new fish. That definitely was not a cheap purchase lol, specially on the gem tang. I usually see them for 700-800. My local fish shop has one for 649, right now and is a good three inch. It’s a great price but don’t think it would work in my tank. How are they all doing atm?

I don’t have my own qt system set up, but I absolutely do qt anything that goes in my tank. My lfs are very kind to me, so they do it for me. They are thee only ones of three that auto copper treat all fish coming in. They have the coral and fish separate from each other. The fish side in every tank is basically a qt tank, and the fish stay a min 30 days. Most people that buy the fish leave them for 50-90 days. The shop only charges an extra 10 dollars for the whole 90 days Aeneas long as you supply the food. If not then it’s 20 for the 90 day period, which is awesome (Well to me lol).

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

yeah, that is an awesome deal if they keep up copper levels to where they need to be.

One of my LFS has a two week guarantee but the really nice store basically has a "good luck" policy. The down side is that they see soo much business that if you don't snatch up a fish you like someone else will.

On the plus side I am 20? or so days into my fallow period . the fish are doing fine in their respective totes and tanks except for my red tailed tamarin wrasse... he decided to swim into the inlet of my HOB filter