Tank birthday, 47+ years

Paul B · Jan 28, 2018

TreyC2010 said:
but you’re like an “artifact” around here.

I was going for "Relic" but I will take artifact.

Brew12 said:
I think your ozonizer helps, but there are lots of people who run them that have had tank wipes.

That is true, almost everyone has had tank wipeouts or crashes. Not me of course. :rolleyes:

I am not exactly sure what happens when they say their tank crashed. Does that mean it actually crashed on the floor or did everything get ich or be overcome with algae. Most people just say it crashed but I don't know what that means.

I have been told my ozone is the reason and I have also been told it is my reverse UG filter or NSW that holds parasites at bay. I feel it is fish immunity and nothing more. It is the simplest and most natural reason, but it could be my aftershave or green eyes. :cool:

Brew12 · Jan 28, 2018

Paul B said:
I feel it is fish immunity and nothing more. It is the simplest and most natural reason, but it could be my aftershave or green eyes. :cool:

I feel it is fish immunity, and so much more. Fish immunity is the core of why it works. Fish stress and immunity go hand in hand. I used to think it was everything you did to reduce your fishes stress that made it special. As I've learned more, I've become convinced that it is the things the rest of us do with our tanks that causes the stress to our fish. Some times, less is more.

Ozone should provide a small layer of protection to reduce parasite numbers if the fish do temporarily loose their immunity due to stress. So I'm sure it does play a role (or could in a system) it isn't a main player imo.

Oh, and I doubt the aftershave or green eyes have anything to do with it. The lack of rap music is likely key.

Paul B · Jan 28, 2018

Brew12 said:
I've become convinced that it is the things the rest of us do with our tanks that causes the stress to our fish. Some times, less is more.

The stress of collection, shipping, then being in a store with us looking at them and kids tapping on the glass. But the biggest stress IMO is quarantine. They hate that and I feel thats why so many fish are sick. :rolleyes:

Dogtown · Jan 28, 2018

Hey Paul, I'm jumping directly on your thread, as you requested, to chat about water sterilization with everyone.

For the many fans of Paul out there, I want to start by sharing that Paul and I go back to around 2011 as long time friends. I work in the IT industry and he's called me many times for help with his computer and video camera setup. I've called him several times myself as well for help so I could really understand his ways. He's talked to me in great detail about topics I was fascinated with. For instance, how he created his unique algae troft scrubber using his display lighting, how he made his algae scrubber ultra easy to maintain using window screening and cement, how to grows blackworms using a 10 gallon tank and newspaper, and many more topics, some of which I have l0ng since forgotten. Paul even sent me one of his mojano wands free of charge when he started selling them ( worked great!). I am a Paul B fan and we are friends first.

My private nudge to Paul was that I wish he would not downplay his long term success as having nothing to do with his long term use of a sterilizer running 24/7 in his tank. I know that people flock to Paul because of his witty humor and their desire to have an immune tank so I really feel like water sterilization needs more discussion since he uses it.

I'm a big reader and I truly enjoy the science of this hobby. I don't want to push my opinion on anyone but I would like to share what Dr. John Hawke, a leader in the commercial aquaculture industry, says about the benefits of water sterilization. If you watch the following video below the screen shot, Dr. Hawke discusses water sterilization at 35:18 minutes in. His comments are to the point because water sterilization is considered a must have in commercial aquaculture. If the facility is indoors and can run sterilization, it is done as a standard practice. Commercial aquaculture facilities that cannot run water sterilization consistently experience higher mortality rates. Facilities that run water sterilization consistently experience lower mortality rate. The benefits of water sterilization are well established.

Hopefully my little part in this conversation will help at least a few people who have struggled with diseased fish in the past and are looking for a solution. I consider Paul's methods sound and I don't think he hides anything. Please consider water sterilization for your display tank, just as Paul does. As Neil DeGrasse Tyson put it... I will never require you to believe anything. It will only ever be about how compelling the evidence is to you.

Fast forward to 35:18 or watch the whole video if you like.

Dr John Hawke Exploring Lessons from Disease Management in Commercial Aquaculture.jpg

Brew12 · Jan 28, 2018

Paul B said:
The stress of collection, shipping, then being in a store with us looking at them and kids tapping on the glass. But the biggest stress IMO is quarantine. They hate that and I feel thats why so many fish are sick. :rolleyes:

Some day I may have the courage to not QT everything. Today is not that day. I accept my role as a noob.

NS Mike D · Jan 28, 2018

PM me when you have a date. I'd be more than happy to lend a hand if I'm available. Plus I have a 15 year old Tahoe that would feel young around you, me and your tank.

Paul B · Jan 28, 2018

Dogtown, Chris, Now I remember where I met you. I am glad you visited my thread. I will certainly look at that video as soon as I have time, Hopefully tomorrow.
Tomorrow morning I have to go for a drug test to renew my Captain's license. Hopefully they don't count aspirins, cholesterol medication and nerve pain blockers as a drug. :eek:

By the way, I got my wife an Alexa thing but I can't figure it out. :confused:

Dogtown · Jan 28, 2018

Paul B said:
Dogtown, Chris, Now I remember where I met you. I am glad you visited my thread. I will certainly look at that video as soon as I have time, Hopefully tomorrow.
Tomorrow morning I have to go for a drug test to renew my Captain's license. Hopefully they don't count aspirins, cholesterol medication and nerve pain blockers as a drug. :eek:

By the way, I got my wife an Alexa thing but I can't figure it out. :confused:

Oh, you must have forgotten I use Dogtown here and Reefkeeper64 over on RC. Good luck with that drug test!

locito277 · Jan 28, 2018

“Alexa, how can I pass a drug test?” LOL. Alexa can be a pain to set up but should be just a few steps to start her up

Chasmodes · Jan 29, 2018

Paul B said:
By the way, I got my wife an Alexa thing but I can't figure it out. :confused:

My wife bought us an Echo Dot and wants me to figure it out. I yelled, Alexa, get out of the box. Nothing happened. Maybe I'll break out the old hockey stick and slap Alexa around a few times.

Brew12 · Jan 29, 2018

Chasmodes said:
My wife bought us an Echo Dot and wants me to figure it out. I yelled, Alexa, get out of the box. Nothing happened. Maybe I'll break out the old hockey stick and slap Alexa around a few times.

#metoo! :eek::eek::eek:

They really aren't too bad to set up. The problem is that once set up you feel like you should use them. Ours gets asked for weather forecasts more than anything. Oh, and jokes. "Alexa, tell me a joke" is often heard in the house.

Paul B · Jan 29, 2018

NS Mike D said:
PM me when you have a date. I'd be more than happy to lend a hand if I'm available. Plus I have a 15 year old Tahoe that would feel young around you, me and your tank.

Thanks Mike, I may need that Tahoe. :D

I got her Alexa and the Echo Dot. When I was trying to set them up I had both of them on my kitchen counter trying to figure it out. Then they started to argue with each other because if they hear Alexa, they respond, then the other one starts. I felt like an outsider and had to unplug one.
They tell me jokes, weather and all that but for being so smart, they don't know how to connect themselves to the internet. :rolleyes:

Paul B · Jan 29, 2018

OK I watched most of that video, especially at 35.18 where he talks about Strep in Tilapia and freshwater catfish. Strep certainly is a disease that most fish can get as is ich, velvet and a bunch of others. It is a bacterial disease and as far as my experience not very common in tropical salt water reef tanks. But even if it were introduced to a system, IMO it would be like any other bacteria disease and being it is also in the ocean, fish are immune to it in the sea and if we keep the immunity that the fish already has, there will be no problems with it. So I disagree with Dr. Hawke as I am sure he disagrees with me. How old is his reef tank? :cool:
Sterilization of water using UV or Ozone is not practical in a reef because the ecosystem of a reef tank requires living bacteria to complete the nitrogen cycle and keep the fish immune. Sterilization would work in a quarantined system because the fish there already have compromised health and no immune system.

My tank would never survive like that as my fish depend on the introduction of all pathogens to be present or at least be present sporadically. This has always been my argument. If a disease is in the sea, it should be in our tank because the fish that came from the sea already have an immunity to it. If, like in that video we try to raise those fish in un-natural conditions in a cage at sea or even a pond or aquarium, those fish will be stressed which will compromise their immunity and they will get infected.

Another thought (and Randy believes in this as well) The Ozone or UV we hobbiests can buy for an aquarium is way under powered to sterilize water. It may kill some parasites or bacteria that go through it, but the 50,000 parasites in a tank (I guessed) will be mostly in the gravel and not trying to swim into a UV sterilizer. If we did manage to sterilize the water, we could not keep the fish healthy for the reasons I said.
Healthy fish need bacteria, viruses and parasites to stay immune. This is a classic quarantine verses non quarantine practices and we have people on both sides.

In the 40 years my fish have been immune they have never, not once had Streptococcal disease, ich, velvet or anything else. As I say many times, in less than 4 years my tank will be fifty years old. How long does it have to run before it is considered immune?

How long has the longest a quarantined tank, run with no diseases and do those quarantined fish spawn and only die of old age? Not counting damsels which will live in an upside down 1957 right front, Oldsmobile fender down by the river.

Dogtown · Jan 29, 2018

Turbo's Aquatics · Jan 29, 2018

I can't tell what the heck is going on here, who's on what side? Whose side are the supermodels on?

Paul B · Jan 29, 2018

Example: Kirk had a fish tank for 40+ years and nothing ever got sick. Richard was a very smart guy who went to college and had more degrees than a thermometer. But he was a Nerd. Richard's reef tank kept crashing because he quarantined everything because he lived in an aluminum box.

Kirk used Ozone and Richard used whatever he learned in an aluminum box. Did the ozone protect Kirk's fish for 40 years? Only the fish know. But if it did, then use ozone.
Now Richard is manager of the French Fry cooker at Burger King and Kirk is retired spending his life traveling to exotic places all over the world safe in the fact that his fish are immune, Ozone or not. :cool:

But Kirk found all of this difficult to understand and can't even connect his Alexa to the Internet. :confused:

Kirk also knows all about Ozone because he was one of the first Non-Nerds using it and he built his first Ozonizer from a 27,000 volt neon transformer. Kirk eventually bought a smaller one because the original dimmed the lights in the neighborhood.
Kirks tank has also gone months at a time without using Ozone because the thing broke.
But as Kirk likes to tell people, if you feel you know of something that will keep your fish immune, run out and buy it. :rolleyes:

Dogtown · Jan 29, 2018

How long does it have to run before it is considered immune? Ask yourself, how long does it have to run without 24/7 sterilization running on it before the clock will even start ticking.