Tank Transfer Method

[HomeSlizzice]

I'd want to figure out how to add Metroplex between the GC dosing. Uronema seems to be more common lately and I'd want the extra protection from it.

What about this variation? You could either do the rally as a bath by simply adding it to the water in the old bin 90 minutes before the transfer (or in a different bin and just borrow some of the water/get new water, and then add Metroplex to the new water. Also since General Cure has Metronidazole, is adding Metroplex needed?

TTM / QT Treatment w/ Daily Transfers:
Days:
Day 1 - Methylene Blue 30 min bath, Fish in tank.
Day 2 - 1st transfer at 24-36 hours in evening, Fresh Water dip , and add API General Cure to TTM QT (API GC suggested dose is every 48 hours, Humblefish recommended 5-7 days)
Day 3 - 2nd transfer at 24-36 hours, add Rally bath before transfer to new bin. Add Metroplex to new bin. (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 4 - 3rd transfer at 24-36 hours, add Rally bath before transfer to new bin. Add Metroplex to new bin. (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 5 - 4th transfer at 24-36 hours, add Rally bath before transfer to new bin. Add Metroplex to new bin. (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 6 - 5th transfer at 24-36 hours, add Rally bath before transfer to new bin. Add Metroplex to new bin. (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 7 - 6th transfer at 24-36 hours, add API General Cure to TTM QT (API GC suggested dose is every 48 hours, Humblefish recommended 5-7 days)
Day 8 - 7th transfer at 24-36 hours, add Seachem Prime, if concered about ammonia. (Velvet should be gone)
Day 9 - Nothing, check ammonia
Day 10 - 8th transfer at 48 hours, add Seachem Prime, if concered about ammonia.
Day 11 - Nothing, check ammonia
Day 12 - 9th transfer at 48 hours, add Seachem Prime, if concered about ammonia.
Day 13 - Nothing, check ammonia
Day 14 - 10th transfer a 48 hours, move to 20G Long QT
Day 15 to 29 - Observe and keep normally in 20G Long QT until day 30
Day 30 - Now if there are no signs of disease, release into display.

 

[Brew12]

Also since General Cure has Metronidazole, is adding Metroplex needed?

GC does have Metroplex but unlike Prazi it needs to be in the water consistently so would need replacing each transfer. It's not like Prazi where the treatments works in a few hours and then gets redosed to treat new hatchings a week later.

Looks like a lot of work to me, but I would be more comfortable with that. And as I'm thinking about it, adding the Metro may be overkill. I may have taken you down a bad path. Ruby Reef Rally may be effective on Uronema when used in this manner. I think one of the others with more experience might be able to help. I can't find any directions on how to treat Uronema using RRR.

 

[HomeSlizzice]

GC does have Metroplex but unlike Prazi it needs to be in the water consistently so would need replacing each transfer. It's not like Prazi where the treatments works in a few hours and then gets redosed to treat new hatchings a week later.

Looks like a lot of work to me, but I would be more comfortable with that. And as I'm thinking about it, adding the Metro may be overkill. I may have taken you down a bad path. Ruby Reef Rally may be effective on Uronema when used in this manner. I think one of the others with more experience might be able to help. I can't find any directions on how to treat Uronema using RRR.

I'm open to using either Rally or Metroplex, I just want to cover as many bases as possible.

To me the only real labor intensive aspect of this is making a big batch of salt water first (say 50G). The clear plastic tubs are really cheap so even if I used a totally brand new one for each transfer it wouldn't be too bad.

 

[HomeSlizzice]

@Brew12 Here is a different variation I did with the transfers done every other day by the 46 hour mark. This still gives a 2 hour safety net to the 48 hour window for the velvet life cycle. I was talking to some aquarium friends of mine, and one suggested using cheap $3-5 sponge filters for some bio media so you won't have any need for Prime...

TTM / QT Treatment w/ Every Other Day Transfers:
Days. USE CHEAP SPONGE FILTERS:
Day 1 - Methylene Blue 30 min bath, Fish in tank.
Day 2 - 1st transfer at 24-46 hours, Fresh Water dip, and add API General Cure to TTM QT (API GC suggested dose is every 48 hours, Humblefish recommended 5-7 days)
Day 3 - Nothing, check ammonia
Day 4 - 2nd transfer at 24-46 hours, add Rally to TTM QT or do it as bath before transfer if wanting to run Metroplex (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 5 - Nothing, check ammonia
Day 6 - 3rd transfer at 24-46 hours, add Rally to TTM QT or do it as bath before transfer if wanting to run Metroplex (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 7 - Nothing, check ammonia
Day 8 - 4th transfer at 24-46 hours, Fresh Water dip, and add API General Cure to TTM QT (API GC suggested dose is every 48 hours, Humblefish recommended 5-7 days) (Velvet should be gone)
Day 9 - Nothing, check ammonia
Day 10 - 5th transfer at 48 hours, add Rally to TTM QT or do it as bath before transfer if wanting to run Metroplex (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 11 - Nothing, check ammonia
Day 12 - 6th transfer at 48 hours, add Rally to TTM QT or do it as bath before transfer if wanting to run Metroplex (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 13 - Nothing, check ammonia
Day 14 - 7th transfer a 48 hours, move to 20G Long QT
Day 15 to 29 - Observe and keep normally in 20G Long QT until day 30
Day 30 - Now if there are no signs of disease, release into display.

 

[Brew12]

I was talking to some aquarium friends of mine, and one suggested using cheap $3-5 sponge filters for some bio media so you won't have any need for Prime...

Not a bad idea and many people use them for QT systems but I doubt you will have an ammonia issue without a bio filter if you feed reasonably and transfer every 48 hours. I also think I would do the 6th transfer into a QT instead of the 7th but it should be fine either way. I don't know enough about the RRR to help know if that would work or have any negative interactions.

 

[NinnJinn]

I am on day 13 of TTM but my question is how early before the 72 hours can I transfer? This last time?

I have been doing the transfer every 72 hours Within 15 minutes before the 72 hours is up. However my daughter has a tennis match and I'm either going to be late on the TTM by about 15 to 20 minutes or do the TTM an hour and a half early....

Which should I do?

 

[HairyGary]

I am on day 13 of TTM but my question is how early before the 72 hours can I transfer? This last time?

I have been doing the transfer every 72 hours Within 15 minutes before the 72 hours is up. However my daughter has a tennis match and I'm either going to be late on the TTM by about 15 to 20 minutes or do the TTM an hour and a half early....

Which should I do?

Always on the early side of 72 hours

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

You can transfer anytime before the 72 hr. mark. Just dont go over.

 

[Nathan80]

I'm trying the TTM method for the first time - setup as recommended, heater, air stone, thermometer etc for each large tub. I was trying to QT using copper but 2 of the Tangs didn't look very happy so I decided to change approach. I set the first TTM up yesterday, checked everything was right - let the air stone run for a bit and then moved the fish in with a bit of ATM colony at the same time. The one tang has perked up quite a bit after lying upside down for a while yesterday and now seems a lot happier. The other one the opposite has happened - its now lying on its side not doing anything. Has anyone got any suggestions? Have I done something wrong? I am setting another tub up for it at the minute so I can move it over into its own QT bucket...

 

[Spar]

I'm trying the TTM method for the first time - setup as recommended, heater, air stone, thermometer etc for each large tub. I was trying to QT using copper but 2 of the Tangs didn't look very happy so I decided to change approach. I set the first TTM up yesterday, checked everything was right - let the air stone run for a bit and then moved the fish in with a bit of ATM colony at the same time. The one tang has perked up quite a bit after lying upside down for a while yesterday and now seems a lot happier. The other one the opposite has happened - its now lying on its side not doing anything. Has anyone got any suggestions? Have I done something wrong? I am setting another tub up for it at the minute so I can move it over into its own QT bucket...

Would be helpful to get more background on what led up to the TTM (was this a recent purchase or existing fish that had symptoms?). Also, when you used copper what was your procedure (product, what ppm you added, how tested, over how many doses and time did you add it). Did you do a FW Dip first or any other steps?

Important to note about TTM is that it does not help with Velvet. And with Velvet being so common in the hobby these days you really should consider sticking out copper or chloroquine phosphate (my preference for most fish) and API General Cure.

What is "ATM Colony"?

 

[Nathan80]

New purchases about 3 weeks ago, no symptoms - FW dip occurred on day 1 when I got the home, then I left them for a week just to make sure that they were all eating fine etc (they were). Copper was/is cupramine final dose was about 0.51 -0. 52 ppm (tested with Hanna instruments tester), it was built up over 6 days or so gradually every other day.

ATM colony - is bacterial filter kick start, similer to Dr Tims? Basically good bacteria to get a cycle going - I have loads of it so just threw in some to help and I plan to for each of the changes I go thorough just before 72 hours as I move them to a new enclosure. The other fish that are left in that QT seem fine - couple of blue chromis, a pair of clowns and a cleaner wrasse, they are all ok.

The tangs are very small - the arabian sail fine is only about the size of a 50p piece (so just over an inch mouth to tail) That on is the one that wasn't doing well, but now is - the Mimic tang is the one not doing so good, that is quite small as well - probably 2"

 

[MnFish1]

I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that TTM was designed to avoid medications that can cause other problems. Unless there is evidence of disease (with TTM) - I am not sure all of those medications won't do more harm than good overall.

 

[MnFish1]

Would be helpful to get more background on what led up to the TTM (was this a recent purchase or existing fish that had symptoms?). Also, when you used copper what was your procedure (product, what ppm you added, how tested, over how many doses and time did you add it). Did you do a FW Dip first or any other steps?

Important to note about TTM is that it does not help with Velvet. And with Velvet being so common in the hobby these days you really should consider sticking out copper or chloroquine phosphate (my preference for most fish) and API General Cure.

What is "ATM Colony"?

I believe that TTM - if done more quickly - will also help with velvet. (Not as described with CI).

 

[Spar]

I believe that TTM - if done more quickly - will also help with velvet. (Not as described with CI).

There is theory around doing more frequent transfers can break the life cycle, but I hadn't heard/seen anything concrete on it. The cyst stage emerges so much quicker compared to ich. The same time periods provided for Ich would not work for velvet though.

 

[MnFish1]

There is theory around doing more frequent transfers can break the life cycle, but I hadn't heard/seen anything concrete on it. The cyst stage emerges so much quicker compared to ich. The same time periods provided for Ich would not work for velvet though.

Right thats what I was referring to - the changes need to be done more often. Note - this not for 'treating infections' - but making sure no parasites are lingering on the fish.

 

[HomeSlizzice]

Right thats what I was referring to - the changes need to be done more often. Note - this not for 'treating infections' - but making sure no parasites are lingering on the fish.

Correct, this is one I came up with and have done with a recent batch of fish. Granted they looked great when I bought them, but I never saw any signs of ich or velvet (yellow and blue tang in the mix). I did lose one fish during the transfer phase (little tailspot blenny) but it was from one time I extended a fresh water dip too long (10 minutes, stick to 5 minutes like the Sticky suggests). The other loses were from either starvation (one fish refused to eat anything) and the final was I believe from ammonia toxicity in the 20QT. All the fish seemed to handle the transfers just fine...

I skipped out on all meds other than Methylene Blue on the first go around, but going forward I'm going to use this method since I'll be getting some Angels and Wrasses (fluke prone fish).

The time frame found for the Velvet life cycle is 48-96 hours, so by keeping it under 48 (46 or less) should be sufficient. I know @Humblefish originally suggested 36 hours to give you a larger window.

This is what I came up with, with the meds I am willing to use. You can modify the meds as you wish depending on your goals.

QT WITH Toxic MEDS
TTM / QT Treatment w/ Every Other Day Transfers:
Days. USE AIR STONES:

1. Day 1 - Acclimate, possible Methylene Blue bath, Fish in tank.
2. Day 2 - 1st transfer at 24-46 hours in evening, Fresh Water dip, and add API General Cure (API GC suggested is 48 hours, Humblefish recommended 5-7 days)
3. Day 3 - Nothing, check ammonia
4. Day 4 - 2nd transfer at 24-46 hours, Fresh Water dip, add Rally (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
5. Day 5 - Nothing, check ammonia, add Rally
6. Day 6 - 3rd transfer at 24-46 hours, , add Rally
7. Day 7 - Nothing, check ammonia, add Rally
8. Day 8 - 4th transfer at 24-46 hours, Fresh Water dip, and add API General Cure (API GC suggested is 48 hours, Humblefish recommended 5-7 days) (Velvet should be gone)
9. Day 9 - Nothing, check ammonia
10. Day 10 - 5th transfer at 24-46 hours
11. Day 11 - Nothing, check ammonia
12. Day 12 - 6th transfer at 24-46 hours, Fresh Water dip
13. Day 13 - Nothing, check ammonia
14. Day 14 - 7th transfer at 48 hours
15. Day 15 - Nothing, check ammonia
16. Day 16 - 8th transfer a 48 hours, move to 20G Long QT
17. Day 16 - 30 Observe and keep normally in 20G Long QT until day 30
18. Day 31+ - Now if there are no signs of disease, release into display.

When I did this I simply used cheap clear steralite 16 to 28 quart bins from target or home depot. I highly recommend preparing all your water before at the different salinity you want for each (most wholesalers use 1.018-1.020 S.G.) and having 8 bins filled and ready to go. Then at the end you can simply rinse everything out when you're done. On my first attempt, I prepared the water as needed for each transfer and it was a huge inconvenience. Do all the prep work before, and make going through the process as easy/quick as possible.

 

[MnFish1]

Correct, this is one I came up with and have done with a recent batch of fish. Granted they looked great when I bought them, but I never saw any signs of ich or velvet (yellow and blue tang in the mix). I did lose one fish during the transfer phase (little tailspot blenny) but it was from one time I extended a fresh water dip too long (10 minutes, stick to 5 minutes like the Sticky suggests). The other loses were from either starvation (one fish refused to eat anything) and the final was I believe from ammonia toxicity in the 20QT. All the fish seemed to handle the transfers just fine...

I skipped out on all meds other than Methylene Blue on the first go around, but going forward I'm going to use this method since I'll be getting some Angels and Wrasses (fluke prone fish).

The time frame found for the Velvet life cycle is 48-96 hours, so by keeping it under 48 (46 or less) should be sufficient. I know @Humblefish originally suggested 36 hours to give you a larger window.

This is what I came up with, with the meds I am willing to use. You can modify the meds as you wish depending on your goals.

QT WITH Toxic MEDS
TTM / QT Treatment w/ Every Other Day Transfers:
Days. USE AIR STONES:

1. Day 1 - Acclimate, possible Methylene Blue bath, Fish in tank.
2. Day 2 - 1st transfer at 24-46 hours in evening, Fresh Water dip, and add API General Cure (API GC suggested is 48 hours, Humblefish recommended 5-7 days)
3. Day 3 - Nothing, check ammonia
4. Day 4 - 2nd transfer at 24-46 hours, Fresh Water dip, add Rally (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
5. Day 5 - Nothing, check ammonia, add Rally
6. Day 6 - 3rd transfer at 24-46 hours, , add Rally
7. Day 7 - Nothing, check ammonia, add Rally
8. Day 8 - 4th transfer at 24-46 hours, Fresh Water dip, and add API General Cure (API GC suggested is 48 hours, Humblefish recommended 5-7 days) (Velvet should be gone)
9. Day 9 - Nothing, check ammonia
10. Day 10 - 5th transfer at 24-46 hours
11. Day 11 - Nothing, check ammonia
12. Day 12 - 6th transfer at 24-46 hours, Fresh Water dip
13. Day 13 - Nothing, check ammonia
14. Day 14 - 7th transfer at 48 hours
15. Day 15 - Nothing, check ammonia
16. Day 16 - 8th transfer a 48 hours, move to 20G Long QT
17. Day 16 - 30 Observe and keep normally in 20G Long QT until day 30
18. Day 31+ - Now if there are no signs of disease, release into display.

When I did this I simply used cheap clear steralite 16 to 28 quart bins from target or home depot. I highly recommend preparing all your water before at the different salinity you want for each (most wholesalers use 1.018-1.020 S.G.) and having 8 bins filled and ready to go. Then at the end you can simply rinse everything out when you're done. On my first attempt, I prepared the water as needed for each transfer and it was a huge inconvenience. Do all the prep work before, and make going through the process as easy/quick as possible.

Thanks - didnt understand at first

 

[HomeSlizzice]

Thanks - didnt understand at first

Haha just trying to share my experiences. I know you've seen me making several really similar posts. But as I refine my version, I want to keep y'all updated on the progress. I'm hopeful it could end up being a good solution for people.

 

[Punchanello]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to say thanks for this thread.

I have tended to treat everything prophylactically with copper. I've had success with this method using a hannah checker to measure on tangs and butterflies. Unfortunately I lost a lot of other fish including angels, blennies and wrasse.

I have now performed two separate cycles of TTM + praziquantel on blennies, angels and wrasses with 100% success. I am now considering using it on tangs instead of copper.

The truth is it is a fair bit more work and a bit more expensive but I think it is less stressful on the fish and leaves you with options when things aren't going well. I would recommend it as a first line option for ich.

 

[gobble]

If the trophonts only feed on the fish for 3-7 days, why are we doing TTM for 13 days?

If I take the fish out after 8 days, and there were transfers in-between so that no new trophonts could have attached, isn't the fish ich free?