Tank upgrade. Will I need to cycle again?

[LxHowler]

I currently have a 30gallon cube tank with a pair of clown fish, bunch of clean up crew and coral. I am currently in the planning stage of upgrading it to an 80 gallon tank and had a few questions about upgrading.
The tank has about 10kg of live rock and about 4kg of bio media (ceramic rings, bio balls and crushed live rock) if I moved all of this over to the new tank along with the new live/dry rock, not decided which yet, would the tank be able to support its current bio load. I will be moving all of the coral into my fluval evo while the tank settles but I cant put the fish in there as it already has a pair of clowns. I can't keep the current tank whilst the new one cycles as it is going in its place.
Any suggestions to make this process easier would be greatly welcomed.

 

[blaxsun]

Skip the cycling and go for an instant-cycle. @brandon429 is the resident expert on this.

 

[Spare time]

No need to cycle again

 

[LxHowler]

Good to hear. Thanks both

 

[Fish Think Pink]

I currently have a 30gallon cube tank with a pair of clown fish, bunch of clean up crew and coral. I am currently in the planning stage of upgrading it to an 80 gallon tank and had a few questions about upgrading.
The tank has about 10kg of live rock and about 4kg of bio media (ceramic rings, bio balls and crushed live rock) if I moved all of this over to the new tank along with the new live/dry rock, not decided which yet, would the tank be able to support its current bio load. I will be moving all of the coral into my fluval evo while the tank settles but I cant put the fish in there as it already has a pair of clowns. I can't keep the current tank whilst the new one cycles as it is going in its place.
Any suggestions to make this process easier would be greatly welcomed.

plastic tubs and buckets will help hold things while everything goes from old-tank to new-tank-in-same-place

depending how long, you might want to drop airstones into each, and if temps are cool then MIGHT want heaters but just try to work safe & fast and likely skip heaters

 

[ApoIsland]

I currently have a 30gallon cube tank with a pair of clown fish, bunch of clean up crew and coral. I am currently in the planning stage of upgrading it to an 80 gallon tank and had a few questions about upgrading.
The tank has about 10kg of live rock and about 4kg of bio media (ceramic rings, bio balls and crushed live rock) if I moved all of this over to the new tank along with the new live/dry rock, not decided which yet, would the tank be able to support its current bio load. I will be moving all of the coral into my fluval evo while the tank settles but I cant put the fish in there as it already has a pair of clowns. I can't keep the current tank whilst the new one cycles as it is going in its place.
Any suggestions to make this process easier would be greatly welcomed.

The only thing to worry about is if you have an established sand bed. Make sure you rinse it really really well before putting in the new tank. Keep 1 cup of the old sand if you really want but definitely rinse the rest of it thoroughly. I use straight tap water and have never had any issues. Some people use rodi for the final rinse. Plenty of threads here where someone crashed their tank with an old sand bed.

 

[LxHowler]

plastic tubs and buckets will help hold things while everything goes from old-tank to new-tank-in-same-place

depending how long, you might want to drop airstones into each, and if temps are cool then MIGHT want heaters but just try to work safe & fast and likely skip heaters

Good idea with the tubs with heaters and air to hold thing temporarily while moving. I meant that I couldn't house them for 6-8 weeks if I needed to do a full cycle on the tank

 

[LxHowler]

The only thing to worry about is if you have an established sand bed. Make sure you rinse it really really well before putting in the new tank. Keep 1 cup of the old sand if you really want but definitely rinse the rest of it thoroughly. I use straight tap water and have never had any issues. Some people use rodi for the final rinse. Plenty of threads here where someone crashed their tank with an old sand bed.

Hadn't even thought about sand yet. Wasnt sure if I should just replace with new live sand. How does old sand crash the tank, probably something really obvious I'm missing there.

 

[Grumblez]

No and yes.
No ammonia cycle, yes your new rock and sand will probably at least go through a breef "ugly stage" where it's much more prone to nusciance algae etc.

 

[Fish Think Pink]

Hadn't even thought about sand yet. Wasnt sure if I should just replace with new live sand. How does old sand crash the tank, probably something really obvious I'm missing there.

think of 'old sand' like the septic tank on a house... when you change households people don't take <bleep> with them... but its sand, just sand... rinse it out and reuse is my vote... they say rinse with tap until clean and then final rinse in RO, then make sure not much RO left in it else will impact salinity

I only moved some of my sand originally, and the rest in buckets. Almost year later, my old sand is getting washed and back in tank this weekend - its a chore I've put off - new sand should be rinsed too... (except 'live' sand can be killed this way...)

 

[ying yang]

Good advice above.
While planning new tank and got time on your hands you could add the rock into buckets/ bins or tubs and seed it with one little piece of your existing rock to kickstart it off if its dry rock ovbiously saltwater and heated and could even add light if wanted to get a head start on the ugly phase of the new dry rock as someone pointed out above the new rock be more sceptable to algaes and diatoms etc.
If live rock and depending how live it is if you decide want add some live rock and how it was transported/how long under water before and after and if needs curing or not ( like if get any die off) then also this could be done in some kind of container while you waiting but all depends what rock you using and how live/ how transported and if any die off or not.
Good luck on your new system ^_^

 

[ApoIsland]

Hadn't even thought about sand yet. Wasnt sure if I should just replace with new live sand. How does old sand crash the tank, probably something really obvious I'm missing there.

I'm not sure about the exact science behind it but basically a large amount of trapped waste that is potentially toxic is getting released into the water column which is not good.

If you have an outdoor hose you can hookup its a fairly simple and easy process. If you live in a condo it can be a brutal job. Although only a 30g tank should not be much work either way. I have a 120g that seems to get moved every 3 years or so and the sand cleaning is a nightmare. I would just buy new sand but I'm too cheap. That new and should be rinsed too though.

I would never buy live sand...at least not much of it. All sand becomes live in short order and none of it provides any significant benefit other than a little bio diversity. Plenty of really nice bare bottom tanks are evidence of that. Keep a half cup of that old sand and only rinse it in salt water if you want to kick start the new sand.

And once you start pulling your rocks out of the sand I would not use any of that old tank water. I always drain as much old water as I can before I start pulling the rocks out.

 

[ApoIsland]

think of 'old sand' like the septic tank on a house... when you change households people don't take <bleep> with them... but its sand, just sand... rinse it out and reuse is my vote... they say rinse with tap until clean and then final rinse in RO, then make sure not much RO left in it else will impact salinity

I only moved some of my sand originally, and the rest in buckets. Almost year later, my old sand is getting washed and back in tank this weekend - its a chore I've put off - new sand should be rinsed too... (except 'live' sand can be killed this way...)

This is a perfect analogy. Old sand is definitely a toxic waste hole.

 

[LxHowler]

Good advice above.
While planning new tank and got time on your hands you could add the rock into buckets/ bins or tubs and seed it with one little piece of your existing rock to kickstart it off if its dry rock ovbiously saltwater and heated and could even add light if wanted to get a head start on the ugly phase of the new dry rock as someone pointed out above the new rock be more sceptable to algaes and diatoms etc.
If live rock and depending how live it is if you decide want add some live rock and how it was transported/how long under water before and after and if needs curing or not ( like if get any die off) then also this could be done in some kind of container while you waiting but all depends what rock you using and how live/ how transported and if any die off or not.
Good luck on your new system ^_^

Sounds like a good plan. Still have a while before I'll be upgrading so plenty of time to do this and I have a spare light to try and get ahead

 

[Lasse]

This is a perfect analogy. Old sand is definitely a toxic waste hole.

If you rinse it from organic matters and what happens with that toxic waste hole if OP suddenly decide to keep the tank for another year ? I do not get the logic.

i would rinse the sand a little - get free of organic matter but not the bacteria and reuse it. It will help you to start up the new tank faster, Take also with old water when you do the move.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[MnFish1]

I'm not sure about the exact science behind it but basically a large amount of trapped waste that is potentially toxic is getting released into the water column which is not good.

If you have an outdoor hose you can hookup its a fairly simple and easy process. If you live in a condo it can be a brutal job. Although only a 30g tank should not be much work either way. I have a 120g that seems to get moved every 3 years or so and the sand cleaning is a nightmare. I would just buy new sand but I'm too cheap. That new and should be rinsed too though.

I would never buy live sand...at least not much of it. All sand becomes live in short order and none of it provides any significant benefit other than a little bio diversity. Plenty of really nice bare bottom tanks are evidence of that. Keep a half cup of that old sand and only rinse it in salt water if you want to kick start the new sand.

And once you start pulling your rocks out of the sand I would not use any of that old tank water. I always drain as much old water as I can before I start pulling the rocks out.

For some people the exact science is if the sand bed is deep enough - anaerobic bacteria - that produce hydrogen sulfide gas - can be released - and cause problems. When I have upgraded tanks I too a python, and completely vacuumed the sand - took out all the dirt, detritus. Then rinsed the sand - and put it in the tank. If there is any sulfur smell (like rotten eggs) - keep rinsing. But - unless its a really deep sand bed - it should go it ok. The last time I did this - I put the fish, coral, inverts in a brute - with good flow and heat - put the rock and sand in the tank overnight - with added bacteria - and added the fish etc the next day - no issues.

 

[juniorgomez708]

I currently have a 30gallon cube tank with a pair of clown fish, bunch of clean up crew and coral. I am currently in the planning stage of upgrading it to an 80 gallon tank and had a few questions about upgrading.
The tank has about 10kg of live rock and about 4kg of bio media (ceramic rings, bio balls and crushed live rock) if I moved all of this over to the new tank along with the new live/dry rock, not decided which yet, would the tank be able to support its current bio load. I will be moving all of the coral into my fluval evo while the tank settles but I cant put the fish in there as it already has a pair of clowns. I can't keep the current tank whilst the new one cycles as it is going in its place.
Any suggestions to make this process easier would be greatly welcomed.

I upgrade from 32 to 240 & took my new tank couple of weeks to cycle. I had around .50-1ppm of ammonia. I used bunch of water from my 32g, live rock, & bacteria in a bottle. After 2 weeks though my tank parameters were perfect. My chaeto macro algae consumed my nitrates.

 

[ApoIsland]

For some people the exact science is if the sand bed is deep enough - anaerobic bacteria - that produce hydrogen sulfide gas - can be released - and cause problems. When I have upgraded tanks I too a python, and completely vacuumed the sand - took out all the dirt, detritus. Then rinsed the sand - and put it in the tank. If there is any sulfur smell (like rotten eggs) - keep rinsing. But - unless its a really deep sand bed - it should go it ok. The last time I did this - I put the fish, coral, inverts in a brute - with good flow and heat - put the rock and sand in the tank overnight - with added bacteria - and added the fish etc the next day - no issues.

An old sand bed does not have to be deep to destroy your tank. Threads pop up all the time here illustrating that.
Depending on the bio load and how much waste has been accumulated, you can easily nuke a tank by transferring a sand bed that is less than 2 inches.

 

[ApoIsland]

If you rinse it from organic matters and what happens with that toxic waste hole if OP suddenly decide to keep the tank for another year ? I do not get the logic.

i would rinse the sand a little - get free of organic matter but not the bacteria and reuse it. It will help you to start up the new tank faster, Take also with old water when you do the move.

Sincerely Lasse

Not sure I understand what logic you don't get. Old sand beds accumulate organic waste. Ceptic tanks accumulate organic waste. That is why I enjoyed the post by FishThinkPink. It was a fun analogy in my opinion.

I guess it ultimately depends on ratio of the amount of live rock to sand, but in my experience if you are transferring over the live rock there is no need to try and save the beneficial bacteria in the sand as the amount is insignificant.
I have moved my 120g a few times over the years and have gone weeks/months before adding back completely dead sand without any issues.

The first time I ever moved a 55g tank I had a horrible algae outbreak after transferring unrinsed live sand. It was the first and last time I will ever transfer old sand without thoroughly rinsing.

 

[MichaelReefer]

I currently have a 30gallon cube tank with a pair of clown fish, bunch of clean up crew and coral. I am currently in the planning stage of upgrading it to an 80 gallon tank and had a few questions about upgrading.
The tank has about 10kg of live rock and about 4kg of bio media (ceramic rings, bio balls and crushed live rock) if I moved all of this over to the new tank along with the new live/dry rock, not decided which yet, would the tank be able to support its current bio load. I will be moving all of the coral into my fluval evo while the tank settles but I cant put the fish in there as it already has a pair of clowns. I can't keep the current tank whilst the new one cycles as it is going in its place.
Any suggestions to make this process easier would be greatly welcomed.

You should be fine as long as you move all your bio media and rock over. Do not make any large adjustments for a month or two after you move over. No new fish, etc. You dont want to spike your bioload.