Squamosa
Well-Known Member
Haha, no Glenn, it's me Tony :bigsmile:
I am just too lazy to get out the Nikon, but I suppose I will have to!
Cheers,
Tony
The DSR Method (Dutch Synthetic Reefing)
- Thread starter glennf
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Haha, no Glenn, it's me Tony :bigsmile:
I am just too lazy to get out the Nikon, but I suppose I will have to!
Cheers,
Tony
OP
OP
Ok.... our australian scientist:thumbup:
Nice to see you in here.
I should have recognised your tank, but i see so many tanks i myself get confused somethime
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OP
OP
This is DennisTB's tank
1y and 2mnd, a total seawater newby. This is his first tank ever.
He is running full led lighting, which in my opinion is an extra hurdle.
http://www.dreamreef.nl/index.php?posts/199322
1y and 2mnd, a total seawater newby. This is his first tank ever.
He is running full led lighting, which in my opinion is an extra hurdle.
http://www.dreamreef.nl/index.php?posts/199322
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mcarroll
10K Club member
Noteworthy (and I completely agree) that one can "see through" a crappy photo to see the truth, but much/all of the DSLR photography I see on coral forums is often such an intense lie that there's no way for the naked eye to see what's really there. Coral shots taken with DSLR often include colors and details that the naked eye won't see...which however "cool" it looks, is unrealistic.
As a result, if I can't be there in person, I always prefer to see someone's tank in ordinary pictures from an ordinary camera. A DSLR isn't only mondo-expensive (a tool pretty exclusive to rich reefers), IMO it's also cheating.
-Matt
P.S. Photos in this thread always strike me as very naturalistic, BTW. Wasn't actually talking about present company, just the trend.
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OP
OP
Chrisb's tank also a newby in his first year. He started wit a RSM130 and a month ago het switch to this larger tank. 110x50x60cm
http://www.zeewaterforum.info/forums/showthread.php?p=1163566
http://www.zeewaterforum.info/forums/showthread.php?p=1163566
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OP
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gettaReef
Valuable Member
I really like both of chrisb's tanks, but especially like the aquascape in his newer, larger system. Makes it so theres lots of real estate for coral colonies. And of course his corals look amazing.
A few posts ago you hinted at concerns or hardships using strictly LEDs for lighting of a reef. Currently I am using a fixture with x2 MHs and x4 T5s, but really am wanting to get a new fixture as mine was used when I got it and think it won't last too much longer. I'm skeptical about switching to all LED (my system is SPS dominant). With all the success stories out there using only LED, I find as many with people going back to MH and/or T5. If I went all LED I've been considering Orphek's Atlantik fixture or x2 Radion Pros. I've been very intrigued by these hybrid T5/LED fixtures like the new Geissmen fixture or ATI's hybrid fixture. I'm equally interested in just going with an ATI 8bulb T5 fixture (my reef is a standard 75gal, 48x18x24). Since I plan to use the DSR method with my system I figured I'd ask your opinion on these specific fixtures, other fixtures you might suggest, and your overall thought on reef lighting for SPS dominant reefs (LEDs, MH, T5, and hybrid T5/LED)? Thanks for your time and expertise
A few posts ago you hinted at concerns or hardships using strictly LEDs for lighting of a reef. Currently I am using a fixture with x2 MHs and x4 T5s, but really am wanting to get a new fixture as mine was used when I got it and think it won't last too much longer. I'm skeptical about switching to all LED (my system is SPS dominant). With all the success stories out there using only LED, I find as many with people going back to MH and/or T5. If I went all LED I've been considering Orphek's Atlantik fixture or x2 Radion Pros. I've been very intrigued by these hybrid T5/LED fixtures like the new Geissmen fixture or ATI's hybrid fixture. I'm equally interested in just going with an ATI 8bulb T5 fixture (my reef is a standard 75gal, 48x18x24). Since I plan to use the DSR method with my system I figured I'd ask your opinion on these specific fixtures, other fixtures you might suggest, and your overall thought on reef lighting for SPS dominant reefs (LEDs, MH, T5, and hybrid T5/LED)? Thanks for your time and expertise
OP
OP
Mark's tank
he had a full blown tank crash and lost 50% of his sps and contacted me last year to gain control over his tank
Project in de muur van Mark - Pagina 40
This is now: 1Y later
he had a full blown tank crash and lost 50% of his sps and contacted me last year to gain control over his tank
Project in de muur van Mark - Pagina 40
This is now: 1Y later
OP
OP
in am skeptical about full leds (the orpheks, radeons and AI Sols seems to be O.K.)
Hybrid are for sure Ok, because in basic the are T5 combined with Led (best of both), but i find the price staggering
full led seems to have the "wow factor" but in the long term few acropora species are weakening slowly and than "sudden dead" this may take quite a while up to a half year. i have seen this happen to a few nice tanks and also seen it in my own frag (led lite) tank.
most monti's and lps dont seem to mind 'but growth is a factor less than with T5 lite tank.
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gettaReef
Valuable Member
Yeah, I've been leaning towards the hybrid T5/LEDs but you're right, the price is steep! Maybe soon there will be more hybrids in the market, hopefully leveling out the price a little (I wish!)
OP
OP
I would like to try them also, because i believe in the concept. Only because of the unreasonable steep price i will not.
Noteworthy (and I completely agree) that one can "see through" a crappy photo to see the truth, but much/all of the DSLR photography I see on coral forums is often such an intense lie that there's no way for the naked eye to see what's really there. Coral shots taken with DSLR often include colors and details that the naked eye won't see...which however "cool" it looks, is unrealistic.
As a result, if I can't be there in person, I always prefer to see someone's tank in ordinary pictures from an ordinary camera. A DSLR isn't only mondo-expensive (a tool pretty exclusive to rich reefers), IMO it's also cheating.
-Matt
P.S. Photos in this thread always strike me as very naturalistic, BTW. Wasn't actually talking about present company, just the trend.
Because photography is about capturing light. Light affects color. Some people understand this, some do not. The camera is only a part of it. The lens is the true centerpiece. It is capturing what you see in great detail. It annoys me when people think only the camera does the work. It's about what the person taking the picture sees, and adjusting the camera, the tool, accordingly to their vision. Great photos don't have to captured from super expensive cameras.
I'm going to go back to the beginning and read about this method. I just wanted to comment on the photographic aspect. There's tons of misunderstanding in that regard. Cheers.
OP
OP
So true, putting a dslr in someone hand who don't know how to operate it, still makes crappy pictures.
tunamike
New Member
glenn, i am very interested in this method as I only use "water changes" for husbandry and acclimating new additions. currently using a liquid two part calc/alk dosing regimen and am think like you and am beginning to not like not knowing the exact contents of "trace elements" and want more control over parameters. I see many advantages to your developed method: much easier problem solving when things arent acting right it there are far less "unknowns" as far a chem levels go; better chemistry awareness; and no guesswork. have two questions so far for you. First, have you found the testing for iodine levels to be accurate or had any issues with it? As iodine is very integral for corals and very few consider it an important parameter to watch. I want to keep my I2 levels in balance but am not a fan of just dosing something not knowing what my levels are at. Second was is there a way you could send me a copy of the excel sheet, i have no problem converting to liters since we dose in metric anyways? Im intrigued to say the least and will be picking your brain to improve my reefing abilities!!! Always like outside the box thinkers like myself!
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Why do you believe that iodine is "very integral for corals"?
As far as I know, there is no scientific evidence that corals we keep need iodine.
As far as I know, there is no scientific evidence that corals we keep need iodine.
Paul B
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OK, Randy always has to ask for a scientific evidence. It must be the scientist in him. There is also no scientific evidence that water changes will eliminate hair algae (and it won't) But many people seem to think it will. No evidence that reverse undergravel filters don't work. But I won't go into that. Scientific evidence about parasites is also wrong by the presence of posts on parasites. If after the 43 years that this hobby has been in the US, most posts are about parasites. No scientific evidence as to why things like majano's, aiptasia, flatworms or Godzilla Larvae come, then all of a sudden, disappear. Absolutely no evidence why some people like Paris Hilton, Myley Cyrus or Lindsey Lohan are famous. None at all. Or why I can't grow hair, or why we don't get copperband butterflies, purple tangs or Sweedish Supermodels for invasive creatures. Instead we get pigeons, lionfish, rats, snakehead fish and fire ants.
I add Lugols Iodine to my tank for no reason in particular and my reef is very old, does that mean that scientifically it makes a tank last longer? Or does that mean that I have no idea what I am talking about?
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UK_Pete
Active Member
paul I think this hobby IS largely about science myself - most of the equipment we use and chemicals we add has been introduced through a scientific approach - although the complexity of the hobby means that science is not always the last word. Still, each to their own and if you want to follow a less scientific approach, I don't think theres anything wrong with that, plus you very well might come up with something that initially confounds science, only later for science to catch up and realise and the benefit and (maybe) explain it. But for me (just me), since there is evidence that elevated iodine causes harm in to some organisms we like to keep, I am cautious about it, and appreciate the getting the scientific point of view.
UK_Pete
Active Member
Glenn - I was just wondering, regarding trying your DSR method, is this something that can be done just from the information you have published, or do you have proprietary recipes for your additions that can only be bought? I mean I have read your posts about people trying your method and messing it up, and hence you are keeping it private, but on the other hand you seem to have published your chemical additions from what I can see, so I am not sure what you are keeping private (apart from the 'twist' to the iron citrate).
You already list sodium bicarbonate, calcium chloride, mag chloride, mag sulphate, pot chloride, all the obvious ones which we already use. And regarding strontium, boron, iodide, phosphate and nitrate, there dosent seem to be much room for making up exotic formulations of these elements, so not much is left to the imagination. Your exact iron recipe is secret you have said, so theres one chemical that I assume we would need to buy from you or your appointed seller. But apart from the iron, what else can we not get from our normal suppliers (IE Sigma etc) if we want to try the DSR?
If we do need to buy chemicals from a certain supplier to try the DSR, is there a web site where we can see the prices?
Thanks, Pete
You already list sodium bicarbonate, calcium chloride, mag chloride, mag sulphate, pot chloride, all the obvious ones which we already use. And regarding strontium, boron, iodide, phosphate and nitrate, there dosent seem to be much room for making up exotic formulations of these elements, so not much is left to the imagination. Your exact iron recipe is secret you have said, so theres one chemical that I assume we would need to buy from you or your appointed seller. But apart from the iron, what else can we not get from our normal suppliers (IE Sigma etc) if we want to try the DSR?
If we do need to buy chemicals from a certain supplier to try the DSR, is there a web site where we can see the prices?
Thanks, Pete
OP
OP
you got it right !
the salifert iodine test IMO is spot on , i have made a reference solution and tested it. that's why i recommend it.
some people did a lab check and found the total iodine level were 0,09ppm instead of the measure 0,06pp (salifert). No harm or any stress was to be seen on the corals. So testing with a salifert serves it purpose well enough IMO.. coral can tolerate more than we think.
if you really want to be on the save site, you can adjust for availability and target on 0,03ppm Iodide.
the DSR Calculator can be downloaded with this link:
version v.141122nib
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7Bl4pLrZYSdNjRpbDVZQVViMWs&usp=sha ring
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many believe it serves a purpose, others don't.
it's just a gut feeling and that is sometimes the only thing we have to go on.
it's quite easy to administer and keep track off, so why not, if we think we can improve our result and get nicer tanks.
i have just made a tool to make it easy for anybody to do so, without the danger of overdosing.
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