The perfect moray eel

Nutramar

Fishfreak2009

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What moray would y'all keep with these fish? Thinking about a snowflake, but don't want it to go rogue and eat all my damsels and clowns. I also really like the grey face (G. thyrsoideus), but worry about it hunting tankmates as well. Kind of a greenhorn with eels, as I've only kept a white ribbon eel in the past.

These are the current tankmates:
Koran angel
Cream angel
Sohal tang
Hippo tang
Aiptasia filefish
Broomtail wrasse
2x Brown saddleback clownfish
2x Orange Skunk Clownfish
2x Blue Devil Damsel
2x Green Spot Damsel (Neopomacentrus azysron)
1x Neon Dottyback
1x Harlequin Basslet

Other future tankmates will include a few other tangs, a niger trigger, a couple different dwarf angels, probably a hawkfish, and a few more larger wrasses (maybe an anchorago tusk, one of the Thalassoma species, and possibly a bird wrasse).
 
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vetteguy53081

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What moray would y'all keep with these fish? Thinking about a snowflake, but don't want it to go rogue and eat all my damsels and clowns. I also really like the grey face (G. thyrsoideus), but worry about it hunting tankmates as well. Kind of a greenhorn with eels, as I've only kept a white ribbon eel in the past.

These are the current tankmates:
Koran angel
Cream angel
Sohal tang
Hippo tang
Aiptasia filefish
Broomtail wrasse
2x Brown saddleback clownfish
2x Orange Skunk Clownfish
2x Blue Devil Damsel
2x Green Spot Damsel (Neopomacentrus azysron)
1x Neon Dottyback
1x Harlequin Basslet

Other future tankmates will include a few other tangs, a niger trigger, a couple different dwarf angels, probably a hawkfish, and a few more larger wrasses (maybe an anchorago tusk, one of the Thalassoma species, and possibly a bird wrasse).
I personally would not based on their diet needs and messy housekeeping but if it is a must- snowflake eel
 
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Slocke

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If you want a moray get a species of echidna or a zebra. They are crustacean eaters not fish eaters. Gymnotherax eat fish and ribbon eels aren't worth trying unless you really know what you're doing.

I didn't convince you with snake eels?
 
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Fishfreak2009

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I personally would not based on their diet needs and messy housekeeping but if it is a must- snowflake eel
Thank you for an honest answer. I wasn't too worried about messiness since I do large water changes for my FOWLR systems, run an oversized skimmer, and always have a large refugium.

I was primarily considering the snowflake, a skeletor, or one of the snake eels (ideally the goldspotted, as I loved snorkeling with them in St Kitts.

If I'm being honest, it'll probably be between a gold spotted snake eel or a snowflake, since I love the snake eels so much and since snowflakes are so regularly available as smaller specimens in my area.

Primarily I was concerned about an eel just demolishing the smaller tankmates, which is why I did not really consider a Gymnothorax (although again, I've seen people discuss G. thyrsoideus and talk about it not bothering any piscine tankmates, only shrimp and crabs) and am looking at primarily the pebbletoothed species or snake eels, but figured someone might have a suggestion based on what they have kept, not just read off google.

So you want to add a carnivorous predator to a community fish reef tank and are worried about him eating your fish.......hhhmmmm.....things that make you go hhhmmmm
That is no help at all. This is not a community fish reef tank. This is a fowlr, with large messy fish (broomtail wrasse, sohal tang, koran angel) that happens to have some more agressive smaller fish (spawning blue devil pair, neon dottyback, the clown pairs (also spawning), and the green spotted Damsel pair who all hold their own.

This is not me just wildly throwing random fish together. Many people successfully keep morays with tankmates, especially the pebbletooth species like snowflakes, zebras, chainlinks, and skeletors. I was merely hoping some people may chime in who have personal experience keeping eels of multiple species, on which eels worked best for them with smaller fish.
 
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Fishfreak2009

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If you want a moray get a species of echidna or a zebra. They are crustacean eaters not fish eaters. Gymnotherax eat fish and ribbon eels aren't worth trying unless you really know what you're doing.

I didn't convince you with snake eels?
I'm really tempted by the gold spotted snake eel. I did a lot of snorkeling with them in St Kitts and have been interested in them since. They seem like the perfect fit. Just have to find one available.
 

Slocke

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I'm really tempted by the gold spotted snake eel. I did a lot of snorkeling with them in St Kitts and have been interested in them since. They seem like the perfect fit. Just have to find one available.
They crop up every few months on the divers den which is where mine is from. Also there is one at my LFS right now ironically.

I've not lost any fish with mine and I keep it with some small wrasse and feeder guppies in a FOWLR. It did eat a large hermit crab so it's definitely not invert safe. It's also really easy unlike other species in the genus. Both mine and the one at the LFS will happily eat anything from hands or tweezers. It does need a sanded or pipes but otherwise as easy an eel as you can get.
 

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lion king

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If you get a small snowflake and target feed train them in an observation tank, you will have very little chance that the snowflake will eat your fish. Please don.t listen to the internet folklore, these are small pebbletooth eels that do not have teeth that can grab, the only fish they will eat, are ones they can swallow whole. So operator error is always the cause of a rogue snowflake. Slender fish too small or a large wild snowflake and you may have a problem. A greyface is also a great additio to a community tank, they have a great temperament but are a fang tooth. And nature always wins, so small fish are a big risk with a greyface, if not inevitable. If it were me I would get rid pf the tic tac sized fish and add an eel, or even a pair of grey face, which are fun as pairs.
 

lion king

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I'm really tempted by the gold spotted snake eel. I did a lot of snorkeling with them in St Kitts and have been interested in them since. They seem like the perfect fit. Just have to find one available.
While tame additions, same thing holds true for them. The basslet and dottyback would be at risk. Many eels, sub adult and juvis, will live peacefully for a while. When they mature the small slender fish may disappear. Damsels are demons and are elusive as heck, many fang tooth predator tanks have damsels that live with them for years. While a few slow and not so elusive ones may become snacks.
 
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Lavey29

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Thank you for an honest answer. I wasn't too worried about messiness since I do large water changes for my FOWLR systems, run an oversized skimmer, and always have a large refugium.

I was primarily considering the snowflake, a skeletor, or one of the snake eels (ideally the goldspotted, as I loved snorkeling with them in St Kitts.

If I'm being honest, it'll probably be between a gold spotted snake eel or a snowflake, since I love the snake eels so much and since snowflakes are so regularly available as smaller specimens in my area.

Primarily I was concerned about an eel just demolishing the smaller tankmates, which is why I did not really consider a Gymnothorax (although again, I've seen people discuss G. thyrsoideus and talk about it not bothering any piscine tankmates, only shrimp and crabs) and am looking at primarily the pebbletoothed species or snake eels, but figured someone might have a suggestion based on what they have kept, not just read off google.


That is no help at all. This is not a community fish reef tank. This is a fowlr, with large messy fish (broomtail wrasse, sohal tang, koran angel) that happens to have some more agressive smaller fish (spawning blue devil pair, neon dottyback, the clown pairs (also spawning), and the green spotted Damsel pair who all hold their own.

This is not me just wildly throwing random fish together. Many people successfully keep morays with tankmates, especially the pebbletooth species like snowflakes, zebras, chainlinks, and skeletors. I was merely hoping some people may chime in who have personal experience keeping eels of multiple species, on which eels worked best for them with smaller fish.
I actually care for the well being of my tank inhabitants so we just have different end goals for our tanks. Perhaps you should rehome your small fish if you care about their well being and then get the coolest eel you can find? Or of course as others mentioned they could end up feeder fish. If I take on the responsibility of maintaining a reef tank with fish and inverts then I do whatever I can to ensure they have a safe healthy environment so as I stated above we have different end goals.....good luck
 
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Fishfreak2009

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I actually care for the well being of my tank inhabitants so we just have different end goals for our tanks. Perhaps you should rehome your small fish if you care about their well being and then get the coolest eel you can find? Or of course as others mentioned they could end up feeder fish. If I take on the responsibility of maintaining a reef tank with fish and inverts then I do whatever I can to ensure they have a safe healthy environment so as I stated above we have different end goals.....good luck
I would hope anyone in this hobby cares for the well being of their tank inhabitants. For those who have been in the hobby, many different animals do perfectly well together for certain hobbyists, but may be incompatible for others. Heck, my aiptasia filefish decided LPS were delicious, which is why he is in this tank. He was fine with them for a few months, then decided my elegance coral was the most delicious thing he'd ever seen. He was removed within 15 minutes of me noticing the nipping, and the coral is none the worse for wear. There is a certain amount of risk involved with most aspects of the hobby.

An excellent example of risks reef hobbyists take would be keeping dwarf angels. Many individuals will not keep them in reefs, due to the potential for them to nip corals, or will not keep more than 1 in a system, because they read something on the internet that told them those angels would kill each other. Many other individuals have no issues doing either of these things.

My old 110 gallon reef (torn down because the stand broke) had 5 dwarf angels all living together without issue and with a variety of corals. My current 47 gallon reef has both a rusty angel and a coral beauty angel, in with a wide variety of corals, even some LPS (there is a 12"x8" elegance coral in that particular reef). If there are any issues, I am happy to relocate fish to other systems if necessary, but some other aquarists are unwilling to do so, which becomes an issue.

Keeping more than 2 clowns in the same tank is another excellent example. Most of the time it simply doesn't work, but occasionally it works just fine. My brown saddleback clown pair and my orange skunk clown pair share this tank together without issues, regularly swimming through each other's little nesting areas. Both pair are spawning, and lay eggs every few weeks, but don't give each other a second glance unless they're within a few inches of the eggs. Those two species of clowns are different enough that they don't seem to mind being together, but again, I have the ability to separate them if necessary.

Unfortunately, the my way or the highway attitude many keepers take on this forum drives away many hobbyists. The negativity is rude, depressing, and not necessary. As hobbyists, we should be encouraging, give our honest opinions, and work toward improving the hobby. Reef2Reef is a place where hobbyists should be able to come and ask questions without smart-alec comments. While it won't drive me away, as I love this amazing forum and the many wonderful supportive people on here dedicated to making it a supportive and welcoming environment, the negativity presented here does drive away potential hobbyists or hobbyists struggling with their tanks at home, and may even be the straw that breaks the camel's back and make them leave the hobby entirely.
 
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Fishfreak2009

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#moderator #MODS can you please close this thread? I've received some excellent info from a few awesome members. Thank you @vetteguy53081 , @lion king , and @Slocke . I just don't want it to devolve into a bunch of negativity and rambling.

I'll make sure to update everyone if I do decide to get an eel, or maybe 2? And if I do, I'll most likely be removing the smaller fish as the eels (and the broomtail wrasse) get larger.
 
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I would hope anyone in this hobby cares for the well being of their tank inhabitants. For those who have been in the hobby, many different animals do perfectly well together for certain hobbyists, but may be incompatible for others. Heck, my aiptasia filefish decided LPS were delicious, which is why he is in this tank. He was fine with them for a few months, then decided my elegance coral was the most delicious thing he'd ever seen. He was removed within 15 minutes of me noticing the nipping, and the coral is none the worse for wear. There is a certain amount of risk involved with most aspects of the hobby.

An excellent example of risks reef hobbyists take would be keeping dwarf angels. Many individuals will not keep them in reefs, due to the potential for them to nip corals, or will not keep more than 1 in a system, because they read something on the internet that told them those angels would kill each other. Many other individuals have no issues doing either of these things.

My old 110 gallon reef (torn down because the stand broke) had 5 dwarf angels all living together without issue and with a variety of corals. My current 47 gallon reef has both a rusty angel and a coral beauty angel, in with a wide variety of corals, even some LPS (there is a 12"x8" elegance coral in that particular reef). If there are any issues, I am happy to relocate fish to other systems if necessary, but some other aquarists are unwilling to do so, which becomes an issue.

Keeping more than 2 clowns in the same tank is another excellent example. Most of the time it simply doesn't work, but occasionally it works just fine. My brown saddleback clown pair and my orange skunk clown pair share this tank together without issues, regularly swimming through each other's little nesting areas. Both pair are spawning, and lay eggs every few weeks, but don't give each other a second glance unless they're within a few inches of the eggs. Those two species of clowns are different enough that they don't seem to mind being together, but again, I have the ability to separate them if necessary.

Unfortunately, the my way or the highway attitude many keepers take on this forum drives away many hobbyists. The negativity is rude, depressing, and not necessary. As hobbyists, we should be encouraging, give our honest opinions, and work toward improving the hobby. Reef2Reef is a place where hobbyists should be able to come and ask questions without smart-alec comments. While it won't drive me away, as I love this amazing forum and the many wonderful supportive people on here dedicated to making it a supportive and welcoming environment, the negativity presented here does drive away potential hobbyists or hobbyists struggling with their tanks at home, and may even be the straw that breaks the camel's back and make them leave the hobby entirely.
Sorry you don't like when someone disagrees with your plan. You don't own the hobby and if you are going to post in a public forum then expect public response some may be positive and some negative. No you don't care about your tank inhabitants. You care about the cool factor of an eel in your reef that's all. You could care less if he decides to eat one of the small fish and you have the option to move the small fish to one of your apparent other multiple tanks but choose not to. As stated above we have different end goals and opinions and what you do is entirely your choice but don't whine when someone calls you out on it. I'm sure all the little fish in the ocean will go to sleep happy tonight sleeping next to the large carnivorous eel in the cave next to them so your plan sounds like a good one.
 

NMU1963

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What moray would y'all keep with these fish? Thinking about a snowflake, but don't want it to go rogue and eat all my damsels and clowns. I also really like the grey face (G. thyrsoideus), but worry about it hunting tankmates as well. Kind of a greenhorn with eels, as I've only kept a white ribbon eel in the past.

These are the current tankmates:
Koran angel
Cream angel
Sohal tang
Hippo tang
Aiptasia filefish
Broomtail wrasse
2x Brown saddleback clownfish
2x Orange Skunk Clownfish
2x Blue Devil Damsel
2x Green Spot Damsel (Neopomacentrus azysron)
1x Neon Dottyback
1x Harlequin Basslet

Other future tankmates will include a few other tangs, a niger trigger, a couple different dwarf angels, probably a hawkfish, and a few more larger wrasses (maybe an anchorago tusk, one of the Thalassoma species, and possibly a bird wrasse).
I’ve had a golden spotted eel for several years in a mixed 180g. Various fish and he’s never eaten one. Eels have terrible eyesight so you need to feed them quickly during any feeding session or they might go after smaller fish by accident. Snowflakes are the least aggressive imo
 

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argiBK

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Are all these fish going in your 75 gallon? Seems to be at its stock limit.

I think in any size tank, whatever area the eel occupies will automatically push the rest of the fish to avoid their space. So you might be effectively reducing their swim space significantly once the eel reaches a decent size.

But in any case, I wouldn’t want to risk my other fish’s lives and probably would go with a golden dwarf. Unless you specifically have a predator tank.
 
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Fishfreak2009

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Are all these fish going in your 75 gallon? Seems to be at its stock limit.

I think in any size tank, whatever area the eel occupies will automatically push the rest of the fish to avoid their space. So you might be effectively reducing their swim space significantly once the eel reaches a decent size.

But in any case, I wouldn’t want to risk my other fish’s lives and probably would go with a golden dwarf. Unless you specifically have a predator tank.
Nope, these would not be going in my 75 gallon. These fish are going in the 180 gallon I'm working on, and will be upgraded from there to something around 450 gallons or so (8'x4' footprint) in the next few years. I have 10 saltwater systems currently running at home, and am continuing to add more (as I delve deeper into trying to breed various species).

Here is the 180 as of now, just got the old coralline of the front and side panels. Just needs a good buffing, then build the stand and hook up the plumbing. I'm hoping to have it going by Mid-January/early February.

20221126_182839.jpg
20221127_221804.jpg
 
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Nope, these would not be going in my 75 gallon. These fish are going in the 180 gallon I'm working on, and will be upgraded from there to something around 450 gallons or so (8'x4' footprint) in the next few years. I have 10 saltwater systems currently running at home, and am continuing to add more (as I delve deeper into trying to breed various species).

Here is the 180 as of now, just got the old coralline of the front and side panels. Just needs a good buffing, then build the stand and hook up the plumbing. I'm hoping to have it going by Mid-January/early February.

20221126_182839.jpg
20221127_221804.jpg
That’s going to be a nice tank! And, in that case, I think your setup would be just fine, even better starting out with a smaller eel (as long as it’s well fed).

Maybe the smaller fish would be at risk, but healthy fish are generally great at assessing and avoiding predatory risk unless there’s underlying/distracting conflict outside the eel and I don’t think they’re generally opportunistic/fast enough to be able to take out a small/nimble fish.

If you’re going with a couple pairs of clowns and hosting them in anemones, the eel might be the one in more danger — A long long time ago I once had a snowflake who nearly got eaten by a haddoni when I was feeding the anemone shrimp, took a couple mins to get him out but he recovered nicely).
 
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That’s going to be a nice tank! And, in that case, I think your setup would be just fine, even better starting out with a smaller eel (as long as it’s well fed).

Maybe the smaller fish would be at risk, but healthy fish are generally great at assessing and avoiding predatory risk unless there’s underlying/distracting conflict outside the eel and I don’t think they’re generally opportunistic/fast enough to be able to take out a small/nimble fish.

If you’re going with a couple pairs of clowns and hosting them in anemones, the eel might be the one in more danger — A long long time ago I once had a snowflake who nearly got eaten by a haddoni when I was feeding the anemone shrimp, took a couple mins to get him out but he recovered nicely).
No nems, the koran angel will eat them. I already tried...
 
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