thinking about giving up...

[bruno3047]

If the sandbed has never been disturbed before, that’s a sure way to kill any fish or invert remaining in the tank.

If this must be done, it has to be very gradual, one littke section at a time, over many weeks.

If you use the Python system, you’re siphoning all the crap and the crappy water directly out of the tank. And then you replace it, of course, with new water. If disturbing his sandbed would endanger his animals, then he definitely needs to clean that freaking sand bed. It’s kind of just common sense. Don’t you think?

 

[fish farmer]

About a year and 3 months old, it is my first tank.

In that year and a half did you have success with corals? How did you run your tank? Heavy fish load?

Personally if your tank is less that two years old I wouldn't think you would have a load of crap in the tank warrenting a rip clean...unless you were HEAVY in LIGHT out.

I had a 20 year old DSB FOWLR....loaded with detritus, etc....don't remember ever having dinos.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So i am currently in the middle of my second battle with dinos and things have really taken a turn for the worst. I have stable levels of nitrates and phosphates so i know nutrients aren’t an issue. I tried a UV sterilizer with no success. I had read articles on reef builders and seen videos about raising tank temperature to help beat them and apparently people have seen success with this method. So i set my heater to 83 degrees the day before i went on a short 4 day trip to see it i saw any difference when i returned. When i returned, not only was the dino worse but the increase in temperature must have killed my fish. I had a clown, midas blenny and flameback angel and they are all gone. I dont know what to do anymore, my tank is filled with dino and I have lost all my fish.

Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

 

[bruno3047]

I stopped doing water changes long ago. Every six months I do a thorough sand bed cleaning with my python gravel washing system. I remove between 35 and 40% of the water or until I’ve cleaned every inch of sand bed I can reach, whichever is greater. Then I replace the siphoned out crappy water with new water. And then I’m good for the next six months. Works for me.

 

[bruno3047]

I stopped doing water changes long ago. Every six months I do a thorough sand bed cleaning with my python gravel washing system. I remove between 35 and 40% of the water or until I’ve cleaned every inch of sand bed I can reach, whichever is greater. Then I replace the siphoned out crappy water with new water. And then I’m good for the next six months. Works for me.

I also hang a Marineland water polishing filter on the tank while I’m doing my sandbed cleaning. $65 at liveaquaria. This assists in getting all of the rotting detritus out of the tank before it has a chance to settle back into the sandbed.

 

[samrggzy]

Do you have any livestock (corals or fish) left or is it just rock and sand now?

I have a hammer colony, a small clonony of acans, a serpant star and a handful of snails

 

[samrggzy]

From my understanding diatoms can also be stringy and produce bubbles. I think it's best to get a microscope to be sure. It doesn't have to be expensive (I think 400x magnification is fine) but I'm sure there are recommendations on here. I think dosing 3% food grade hydrogen peroxide works for most. I believe it's 1ml/10g but I'm sure there are articles on here for that. I believe the peroxide is done at night and then you re-add beneficial bacteria during the day (I've seen directions posted here) but the most important thing is to get it identified first. If there are no inhabitants left in the tank then maybe a complete reset would be easier. Supposedly the rip clean method that has been mentioned works wonders. It would be a shame to give up. It could be as simple as proper identification to get you back on track or a complete reset.

In that year and a half did you have success with corals? How did you run your tank? Heavy fish load?

Personally if your tank is less that two years old I wouldn't think you would have a load of crap in the tank warrenting a rip clean...unless you were HEAVY in LIGHT out.

I had a 20 year old DSB FOWLR....loaded with detritus, etc....don't remember ever having dinos.

I only have two corals as of now(hammer and acan colonies) but they have both been doing great so far, same goes for my fish.

 

[Danroo]

I only have two corals as of now(hammer and acan colonies) but they have both been doing great so far, same goes for my fish.

Did your inverts die? Dino’s are pretty deadly on corals and invertebrates, fish are mostly fine due to being water Bourne.

 

[littlefishy]

Start with live rock for your 1st tank!

 

[townclown]

@samrggzy You have to keep in mind that when you joined this hobby you were committed to the challenge and pleasure of keeping a piece of the ocean at your home. At times it is difficult, but in the grand scheme of things this opportunity to experiment and be triumphant stands tall.

Let's get down this straight. Your tank is 3 months old, it is showing normal signs of what is a new tank. We have all gone through this difficult phase and its as a result of a nutrient imbalance. The primary resolution to this is going to be to be patient, and certainly avoid making drastic changes to your tank for they must be gradual. Dinoflagellates will go away upon running their course.

In the meantime here are some options you can take advantage of to combat dinoflagellates:

1. Stop water changes until the bloom has run its course.

2. Boost alkalinity by using buffers. *Follow directions aggressively on packaging*

3. Mix Kalkwasser in your top off water. This will help raise the PH to an intolerant level for the dinoflagellates. *Please read this article prior to doing so. Kalkwasser has a very high PH of 12.3 that can kill your inhabitants if not used properly*: http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/how-to-use-kalk-safely-and-effectively-in-your-tank/

4. Use activated carbon to remove organic compounds that promote dinoflagellates .

5. Use an algae turf scrubber.

6. Leaving the lights off for 3 days which may cause the dinoflagellate bloom to crash.

And lastly, definitely utilize this forum to search and read other posts about other people who struggled with your issue and future issues you may have. There is great advice on here that has helped me tremendously.


Good luck and happy reefing!

- Town Clown

 

[fishmonkey]

So i am currently in the middle of my second battle with dinos and things have really taken a turn for the worst. I have stable levels of nitrates and phosphates so i know nutrients aren’t an issue. I tried a UV sterilizer with no success. I had read articles on reef builders and seen videos about raising tank temperature to help beat them and apparently people have seen success with this method. So i set my heater to 83 degrees the day before i went on a short 4 day trip to see it i saw any difference when i returned. When i returned, not only was the dino worse but the increase in temperature must have killed my fish. I had a clown, midas blenny and flameback angel and they are all gone. I dont know what to do anymore, my tank is filled with dino and I have lost all my fish.

I’m pretty sure I had dinos too. It was pretty bad. The kind that doesn’t dissipate overnight and even grows on sand. Didn’t ID it though.

I stopped doing water changes.

I sucked up as much as I could with one of those power heads you can attach a hose to and through a felt filter sock that went back into my sump instead of through a water change.

Reduced photo period and intensity of light.

Dosed microbacter7.

Increased temp to about 78-80 degrees.

Used activated carbon just in case of dino toxins.

Its been around a month and dinos are gone. But now my nitrates have gotten to around 10 so I’m doing water changes to get them back to 5. Every week got better.

Sorry about your fish man but I believe you can do this. Stuff like this makes you stronger in the end. Good luck bro.

 

[BanjoBandito]

thank you for this input, i only have a 32 gallon biocube so this is definitely manageable. Would it be easier to just remove the old sand and replace it with completely new stuff?

You could but once you rinse it out it’ll be brand new clean white anyway. Don’t waste your money! You could throw a new bag of “live sand” in if you felt inclined, but I’ve never really had obvious success or failure with live sand.

It would save you 3 hours of rinsing sand though.

 

[BanjoBandito]

I am pretty sure it is dinos, they are stringy and are beginning to form little air bubbles.

Easy test. Put some in a bowl and shake it up. If it breaks apart and kinda just disappears it’s dinos. Algae’s won’t break apart like that.

 

[samrggzy]

@samrggzy You have to keep in mind that when you joined this hobby you were committed to the challenge and pleasure of keeping a piece of the ocean at your home. At times it is difficult, but in the grand scheme of things this opportunity to experiment and be triumphant stands tall.

Let's get down this straight. Your tank is 3 months old, it is showing normal signs of what is a new tank. We have all gone through this difficult phase and its as a result of a nutrient imbalance. The primary resolution to this is going to be to be patient, and certainly avoid making drastic changes to your tank for they must be gradual. Dinoflagellates will go away upon running their course.

In the meantime here are some options you can take advantage of to combat dinoflagellates:

1. Stop water changes until the bloom has run its course.

2. Boost alkalinity by using buffers. *Follow directions aggressively on packaging*

3. Mix Kalkwasser in your top off water. This will help raise the PH to an intolerant level for the dinoflagellates. *Please read this article prior to doing so. Kalkwasser has a very high PH of 12.3 that can kill your inhabitants if not used properly*: http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/how-to-use-kalk-safely-and-effectively-in-your-tank/

4. Use activated carbon to remove organic compounds that promote dinoflagellates .

5. Use an algae turf scrubber.

6. Leaving the lights off for 3 days which may cause the dinoflagellate bloom to crash.

And lastly, definitely utilize this forum to search and read other posts about other people who struggled with your issue and future issues you may have. There is great advice on here that has helped me tremendously.


Good luck and happy reefing!

- Town Clown

@samrggzy You have to keep in mind that when you joined this hobby you were committed to the challenge and pleasure of keeping a piece of the ocean at your home. At times it is difficult, but in the grand scheme of things this opportunity to experiment and be triumphant stands tall.

Let's get down this straight. Your tank is 3 months old, it is showing normal signs of what is a new tank. We have all gone through this difficult phase and its as a result of a nutrient imbalance. The primary resolution to this is going to be to be patient, and certainly avoid making drastic changes to your tank for they must be gradual. Dinoflagellates will go away upon running their course.

In the meantime here are some options you can take advantage of to combat dinoflagellates:

1. Stop water changes until the bloom has run its course.

2. Boost alkalinity by using buffers. *Follow directions aggressively on packaging*

3. Mix Kalkwasser in your top off water. This will help raise the PH to an intolerant level for the dinoflagellates. *Please read this article prior to doing so. Kalkwasser has a very high PH of 12.3 that can kill your inhabitants if not used properly*: http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/how-to-use-kalk-safely-and-effectively-in-your-tank/

4. Use activated carbon to remove organic compounds that promote dinoflagellates .

5. Use an algae turf scrubber.

6. Leaving the lights off for 3 days which may cause the dinoflagellate bloom to crash.

And lastly, definitely utilize this forum to search and read other posts about other people who struggled with your issue and future issues you may have. There is great advice on here that has helped me tremendously.


Good luck and happy reefing!

- Town Clown

thank you so much, this made me feel much better about everything.

 

[Karen00]

What @townclown said is good advice. If your tank is only 3 months old you're expecting too much of your tank too soon. You need to set your expectations a lot lower for quite awhile. Some tanks don't achieve balance for easily 1 to 2yrs and every tank goes through these phases at different times. I'm just starting to see some algae and I'm 7 months in but it took me awhile before I added inhabitants. If you still struggle with algae you need to get a proper identification in case you're treating for the wrong thing. From all of my reading the two key things impacting algae are nutrients and lights but proper treatment means proper identification.

 

[samrggzy]

I’m pretty sure I had dinos too. It was pretty bad. The kind that doesn’t dissipate overnight and even grows on sand. Didn’t ID it though.

I stopped doing water changes.

I sucked up as much as I could with one of those power heads you can attach a hose to and through a felt filter sock that went back into my sump instead of through a water change.

Reduced photo period and intensity of light.

Dosed microbacter7.

Increased temp to about 78-80 degrees.

Used activated carbon just in case of dino toxins.

Its been around a month and dinos are gone. But now my nitrates have gotten to around 10 so I’m doing water changes to get them back to 5. Every week got better.

Sorry about your fish man but I believe you can do this. Stuff like this makes you stronger in the end. Good luck bro.

Thank you man I really appreciate it. Mine coat the sandbed as well so we probably had the same ones, I am going to try your method.

 

[samrggzy]

@samrggzy You have to keep in mind that when you joined this hobby you were committed to the challenge and pleasure of keeping a piece of the ocean at your home. At times it is difficult, but in the grand scheme of things this opportunity to experiment and be triumphant stands tall.

Let's get down this straight. Your tank is 3 months old, it is showing normal signs of what is a new tank. We have all gone through this difficult phase and its as a result of a nutrient imbalance. The primary resolution to this is going to be to be patient, and certainly avoid making drastic changes to your tank for they must be gradual. Dinoflagellates will go away upon running their course.

In the meantime here are some options you can take advantage of to combat dinoflagellates:

1. Stop water changes until the bloom has run its course.

2. Boost alkalinity by using buffers. *Follow directions aggressively on packaging*

3. Mix Kalkwasser in your top off water. This will help raise the PH to an intolerant level for the dinoflagellates. *Please read this article prior to doing so. Kalkwasser has a very high PH of 12.3 that can kill your inhabitants if not used properly*: http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/how-to-use-kalk-safely-and-effectively-in-your-tank/

4. Use activated carbon to remove organic compounds that promote dinoflagellates .

5. Use an algae turf scrubber.

6. Leaving the lights off for 3 days which may cause the dinoflagellate bloom to crash.

And lastly, definitely utilize this forum to search and read other posts about other people who struggled with your issue and future issues you may have. There is great advice on here that has helped me tremendously.


Good luck and happy reefing!

- Town Clown

Thank you for the advide I really appreciate it. Maybe I mistyped and didn't catch it but my tank is a year and three months old. I'm pretty sure your advice still holds true though so I will use it in this upcoming battle. I refuse to let the dinos win.

 

[samrggzy]

You could but once you rinse it out it’ll be brand new clean white anyway. Don’t waste your money! You could throw a new bag of “live sand” in if you felt inclined, but I’ve never really had obvious success or failure with live sand.

It would save you 3 hours of rinsing sand though.

I actually have an extra bag of the sand I used because I overbought so that is the only reason I asked.

 

[Idech]

If you use the Python system, you’re siphoning all the crap and the crappy water directly out of the tank. And then you replace it, of course, with new water. If disturbing his sandbed would endanger his animals, then he definitely needs to clean that freaking sand bed. It’s kind of just common sense. Don’t you think?

No, it’s not. The sand bed, when undisturbed, is home to anaerobic bacteria that will die when exposed to oxygen from the tank. When they die, there is an ammonia build-up that will kill the fish.

Even with a python, there is no way to prevent this. So you either disturb the sand bed regularly to prevent the accumulation of those anaerobic bacteria, or you leave it be and don’t disturb it.

If you decide to clean the sand bed after more than maybe 6-8 weeks of being left alone, then you need to do it slowly, one section at a time, over many weeks.

 

[Nate Chalk]

Remove, starve, add other bio to compete, bacteria, live rock, other algae. Do you have corralline growing?