This debate will last through eternity! But it's 2020 and have things changed?

[FastandCurious]

Simple. My tank looks better when I do water changes. If I skip one, I can see it in the coloration and expansion of my corals. As long as that's true, I'll continue doing water changes regularly.

Your tank looks great without water changes? Great! Don't do 'em.

But... if you don't do water changes because they're inconvenient, time consuming, or expensive... you should really look at your process. Yeah, ok, a 200g bucket of salt ain't cheap, but expensive? A 10-20% weekly water change? Probably less than whatever you're dosing. Inconvenient? You need to spend some time setting up a well planned water change system. Time consuming? Same thing... my 20g water changes take me about 5 minutes, once a week. If you can't spend that much time with your reef... what's the point of having one?

5 min for a water change?? Teach me your ways lol. My 20gal changes take about all in all atleast half hr when all is said and done and everything is dried and put away. But I'm usually taking my time and having my weekly convo's w my fish ; )

 

[terraincognita]

5 min for a water change?? Teach me your ways lol. My 20gal changes take about all in all atleast half hr when all is said and done and everything is dried and put away. But I'm usually taking my time and having my weekly convo's w my fish ; )

Lol, just do it like that.

It's better.

Only way to do this in 5 minutes is either a big siphon and then dumping new water back in from a big mouth bottle or a bucket. (not touching the sand or doing any other cleaning)

Or using a pump to get the water out and back in.

I can change 5G in 2 minutes flat. But I always take 45 minutes for 5G haha.

 

[FastandCurious]

Are water changes a thing of the past or of the present?

Do water changes, don't do water changes? The debate will last F O R E V E R!!

So why not continue it today! Well things change, methods change, people change, systems change and what is 2020 telling us, besides it's a crazy year, about changing out your water in your saltwater reef aquarium?

This paragraph from @Randy Holmes-Farley makes it as clear as mud but is so truthful! HA!



So in light of this brand new discussion topic of water changes let's dig in and talk about it! It's 2020 and has your feelings changed about water changes?

1. YES water changes are beneficial or NO water changes are not beneficial to a reef aquarium?

Let's go a step further....

2. YES water changes are necessary or NO water changes are not necessary for long term health of a reef aquarium?

3. Do you perform regular water changes on your reef aquarium?

I feel like the real question here is "Do you dose or not dose regularly? " bc that determines how often you need to do water changes. If ppl can dose their tank and get it perfect, then there's no reason to do their weekly changes. For those of us who don't and get our tank balanced out by added clean water every week, we don't dose as often or even at all. But both work and it's just about what works for you and your tanks inhabitants.

 

[bigjgmac]

Are water changes a thing of the past or of the present?

Do water changes, don't do water changes? The debate will last F O R E V E R!!

So why not continue it today! Well things change, methods change, people change, systems change and what is 2020 telling us, besides it's a crazy year, about changing out your water in your saltwater reef aquarium?

This paragraph from @Randy Holmes-Farley makes it as clear as mud but is so truthful! HA!



So in light of this brand new discussion topic of water changes let's dig in and talk about it! It's 2020 and has your feelings changed about water changes?

1. YES water changes are beneficial or NO water changes are not beneficial to a reef aquarium?

Let's go a step further....

2. YES water changes are necessary or NO water changes are not necessary for long term health of a reef aquarium?

3. Do you perform regular water changes on your reef aquarium?

I am an advocate of water changes. I do 10% weekly and once every couple of months do a 25%. The actual water change is just part of what I’m doing. It’s an opportunity to blow detritus off the rockwork, vacuum the aquarium bottom, remove/control toxins/unknowns, and just be hands on with the tank.

 

[MnFish1]

Then lets start with indisputable facts.

(1) Salt mixes do not contain any industry standard of trace elements.

(2 The reefing industry doesn't even agree on what a trace element is.

(3) One salt mix may consider potassium to be a trace element, then put 'contains trace elements' on the label. Reefers then assume it's uranium or unobtanium then start threads about how often they should do water changes because they contain trace elements.

(4) Replace the term 'Trace Elements' with 'Britney Spears' when you see somebody seriously talking about Trace Elements. It's fun, and often makes more sense,

(5) There are a lot of amazing SPS tanks posted on this very site where the owner does very infrequent or no water changes at all. Therefore you cannot logically conclude water changes are a requirement, or make up psuedo science that claims they are required.

Tanks with minimal or no water changes should be our goal, not putting your thumbs in your ears and go 'la la la I can't hear you' because of purchase justification.

most of your points to me are not facts. they appply to you good luck with your tank

 

[MnFish1]

water changes are expensive with a big reef, more expensive than ICP testing. Dumping water down the drain will screw up all my mineral levels and rhythm of consumption. Everything is going amazingly for me, so why fix what's not broken?
*note, my nutrient issues are non existent, so no true reason to WC.

do ice tests measure dissolved organics?

 

[MnFish1]

Then lets start with indisputable facts.

(1) Salt mixes do not contain any industry standard of trace elements.

(2 The reefing industry doesn't even agree on what a trace element is.

(3) One salt mix may consider potassium to be a trace element, then put 'contains trace elements' on the label. Reefers then assume it's uranium or unobtanium then start threads about how often they should do water changes because they contain trace elements.

(4) Replace the term 'Trace Elements' with 'Britney Spears' when you see somebody seriously talking about Trace Elements. It's fun, and often makes more sense,

(5) There are a lot of amazing SPS tanks posted on this very site where the owner does very infrequent or no water changes at all. Therefore you cannot logically conclude water changes are a requirement, or make up psuedo science that claims they are required.

Tanks with minimal or no water changes should be our goal, not putting your thumbs in your ears and go 'la la la I can't hear you' because of purchase justification.

I disagree with all of your points.

 

[RedReefer]

I do water changes 5% weekly minimum. If I notice anything out of whack then I do 10% water changes weekly. Don’t get me wrong I’m sure my system could go months without a water change and everything would be fine. I’m not risking it. I believe water changes are necessary. Kept to a minimum if done correctly.

 

[anthonygf]

1. YES water changes are beneficial or NO water changes are not beneficial to a reef aquarium?

Yes

Let's go a step further....

2. YES water changes are necessary or NO water changes are not necessary for long term health of a reef aquarium?

It depends on the tank type and how it's maintained.

3. Do you perform regular water changes on your reef aquarium?

No.

Grows things that make you laugh! Love that.

 

[Thaxxx]

Maybe.

But the question is, "are water changes a thing of the past? "

If we don't apply some sort of method to answering the question, then we don't really wind up any more enlightened at the end of the exercise than we were when we started.

To begin with, the question itself is so vague that the only way to answer it is, it depends. The answer to this question for a new/immature reef tank may be different than the answer for a mature reef tank. And what does it mean when we ask, "is it a thing of the past?" Are we asking if whatever benefits a water change provides can be accomplished in other less expensive / involved ways? Or are we asking if it has been determined that water changes provide no benefits?

A vague question is posted and most people are answering with "I feel this" or "I feel that". I guess its fun to participate in such a discussion but I don't see any new insight or enlightenment happening if this is all the discussion is going to be.

That happens a lot here... I'm surprised it's stayed on subject this long.

 

[anthonygf]

Color compare!
Last water change was 9/17. Try to do 5 gallons every 2-3 weeks 55 gallon.

I think carbon will clear that up, maybe. But I do 10% weekly.

 

[Clownfish_Boy]

Bottom line is, there is a big advantage in doing regular water changes. Aquariums are closed systems and need to be periodically refreshed.

 

[KingTideCorals]

Funny thing you ask this @revhtree because I actually just finished an upload on my YouTube channel about this exact thing!

Hope you guys get a chance to check out the lagoons maintenance routine!

 

[adobo]

5 min for a water change?? Teach me your ways lol. My 20gal changes take about all in all atleast half hr when all is said and done and everything is dried and put away. But I'm usually taking my time and having my weekly convo's w my fish ; )

I can do a 5 gallon water change in about 5-10 minutes. Most of the time is spent getting hoses out and putting hoses away.

That time period is misleading though. In order to do a 5 minute water change, there are a couple of hours involved in making a huge vat of saltwater to be used for several water changes.

 

[adobo]

Then lets start with indisputable facts.

(1) Salt mixes do not contain any industry standard of trace elements.

(2 The reefing industry doesn't even agree on what a trace element is.

(3) One salt mix may consider potassium to be a trace element, then put 'contains trace elements' on the label. Reefers then assume it's uranium or unobtanium then start threads about how often they should do water changes because they contain trace elements.

(4) Replace the term 'Trace Elements' with 'Britney Spears' when you see somebody seriously talking about Trace Elements. It's fun, and often makes more sense,

(5) There are a lot of amazing SPS tanks posted on this very site where the owner does very infrequent or no water changes at all. Therefore you cannot logically conclude water changes are a requirement, or make up psuedo science that claims they are required.

Tanks with minimal or no water changes should be our goal, not putting your thumbs in your ears and go 'la la la I can't hear you' because of purchase justification.

I think you have me mixed up with someone else. You are waxing philosophical about unobtanium or some other non-sense. I have nothing to do with that.

I am talking about feelings not being facts. I have no issues with people saying they feel that water changes are good or that water changes are bad. But let's not confuse that as advancing our knowledge of whether water changes are in fact good or bad.

 

[Tankkeepers]

Hi Rev,

At the risk of coming across as antagonistic, I kind of feel like this question doesn't add much to the community's knowledge. Most people who participate in these discussions share their feelings and personal observations.

The thing is, feelings are not facts. And humans are incredibly bad at measuring anything if all they are using are their own senses. The most we can get from this is perhaps a sense as to what the plurality of the hobbyists feel. Maybe 90% of hobbyists feel that water changes are a waste of time. Are those 90% of hobbyists right? Who knows, that is an entirely different question.

So honestly, my opinion is that state of the debate really cannot advance beyond "45% feel that option A is right, 45% feel option B is right, and 10% have mixed feelings" simply because people are expressing their feelings rather than presenting empirical facts.

Imagine if we were using our feelings to figure out to decide whether the earth is a sphere or if dinosaurs existed millions of years ago. Its fun to participate in threads but for us to get down to the truth of the value of consistent water changes, we will probably need to start to introduce the scientific method into the discussion.

Reef tanks are anti-scientific.

If you work in any field of scientific research, you focus on a niche subject and dig as deep as you can on that subject.

Understanding a reef tank requires the opposite, you need to connect dots from a wide variety of areas.

I guess that may help to explain why most experts in any area related to reef tanks don't have spectacular tanks

Regarding water changes, the samething applies. They affect a wide variety of things in the tank in many ways and they may help some aspects of some tanks and not so much in others, depending on the tank type and how it's managed.

To the first quoted post in this message I feel like this does add alot to the community knowledge as a whole as it gives you an idea of what members are doing which kind of tank and then you are able to reach out to them

To the second quoted post I think you need to relook at science as our reef tanks are nothing but a science experiment that either succeed or do not and to say they are anti science is completely wrong

 

[Tankkeepers]

also having a healthy reef with 0 waterchanges is entirly possible I had one run for 8 years with 0 water changes before my kid dumped chili powder into it killing everything in 2 minutes flat this was an sps lps mixed reef

 

[adobo]

To the first quoted post in this message I feel like this does add alot to the community knowledge as a whole as it gives you an idea of what members are doing which kind of tank and then you are able to reach out to them

It tells us what the community does and what the community feels. Whether or not what the community does/feels is right is an entirely different story.

There was a time that the overwhelming majority of the "community" thought and felt that the world is flat. Were they right because they all thought the same thing?

 

[Tankkeepers]

I will also say I dont think 0 water changes in a nano is possible there is just not enoff area for everything required to have a 0 water change system to live (hope someone has done it tho as id like to know how)

 

[Tankkeepers]

It tells us what the community does and what the community feels. Whether or not what the community does/feels is right is an entirely different story.

There was a time that the overwhelming majority of the "community" thought and felt that the world is flat. Were they right because they all thought the same thing?

The proff is in the pudding so to speak if they say they do this method and are not lying and have an exelent tank then right there is your proff which then gives you the ability to reach out to that person to ask exactly how and what they are doing to have success what they think does not matter if it works