This debate will last through eternity! But it's 2020 and have things changed?

[Tankkeepers]

Also I want to point out there is no right way of doing things there are multiple ways to achieve the same thing and each person needs to develop a system that works for them and there tank

 

[Labora]

If you have a smaller tank water changes basically replace skimmer because you can do large % transfers fairly quickly and easily. One more piece of equipment you don't have to fiddle with or clean.

 

[Mr. Fishy Fish]

1. YES water changes are beneficial or NO water changes are not beneficial to a reef aquarium?

I don't think someone could reasonably answer this question, there isn't enough information on the no water change method to determine which is more beneficial.

2. YES water changes are necessary or NO water changes are not necessary for long term health of a reef aquarium?

Once again, we don't have enough information about the no water change method to answer this.

3. Do you perform regular water changes on your reef aquarium?

I'm going for a zero water change system from day 1 with my new build so we'll see how that goes. Follow along if you're interested.



I think the better question is why do we do water changes?

Main Reasons:
1. Lower nitrates/phosphates
2. Remove coral toxins
3. Replenish trace elements and the big 3 (calc, alk, and magnesium).
4. Clean the substrate

My opinion:
We can achieve 1 with a skimmer, algae scrubber, or a properly (related to PAR) set up cheato refugium
We can achieve 2 with a carbon reactor (also clears water)
We can achieve 3 with dosing and a calcium reactor
We can achieve 4 with specific fish and specific CUC

So if someone has the right gear, knowledge, and amount of money I think they can get away with never doing water changes (many are doing this now) while maintaining a much more stable environment in their aquariums. Stable environments breed success, unstable environments breed problems.

Counter opinion:

Someone may argue that water changes are more "natural". For example, there is the argument that the ocean is constantly renewing its freshwater by connecting rivers and rain. However, isn't my tunze top off unit doing the same thing when water evaporates?

Someone else may argue that the reefing community has been successful for many years primarily through water changes. However, does that actually prove anything?

Someone else may argue that it's cheaper to do water changes than to dose or use a calcium reactor. Yeah, I dare them to tell that to someone with a large SPS tank.

There are many other arguments, these are just some off the top of my head. I wrote this quickly so please excuse any grammatical errors. I'm not trying to offend anyone here or argue, I'm just stating my opinion.

 

[Brew12]

I do water changes because I believe it is easier. I dose trace elements and have good nutrient export, but it's nice to know that I have some way to make up for any dosing errors I make. Not doing water changes seems like it is too stressful and too much work.

 

[RYcube2951]

I do a weekly 10 -15 percent water change on my 29g biocube reef tank...

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I think you're running thin on QOTD...

 

[Reef GE]

I take the hybrid approach - 150 gal tank...and do micro water changes every week. Only (1) 5 gallon bucket change a week. Easy, fast. I haven’t done this long enough to claim success but so far so good.

 

[Doctorgori]

I tried to do the “Look ma, no water changes” thing ...it failed
I haven’t given up on my quest however ... I spend $40/mo on salt
I haven’t given up .... trying Balling Hybrid with Kalk+2 ...we’ll see how long that last...
When is someone going to give us RELIABLE inexpensive & easy trace element testing?
Edit add: 2-3% daily H2O changes makes absolutely no mathematical sense...
if you are worried about stability 7-10% every 3-7 days is waaaaay better and is a better compromise IMO

 

[Buffalou]

I have letermeter set up to change out a gallon a day, seems to be working very well. Bare bottom tank so no need to vacuum sand bed. One gallon in, one gallon out, and fresh RODI top off. I've been doing this for over year, along with Aqua Forrest supplements coral taking off!

 

[BobT]

10% per week works for me with very little dosing. When not cleaning sand bed it's a very quick process. I guess if I had a 200 gal or more tank I'd try the no change method with auto dosing to keep parameters stable.

 

[Lasse]

Unless you have a 4-5 year old tank, WC are essential for maximum coral health. The folks who say otherwise either have a tank of softies or are just lazy.

OK - I´m probably lazy in that case. My aquarium - since the early spring 2017 it has only be 1 larger WC (around 60 % january 2018) However I use lot of Core 7 (around 55 ml of each/day) which means that I have to replace around 5 L of saltwater a week with RO water. It correspond to around 2 % weekly WC. Core 7 is a complete system including liquid trace components. I run a type of Triton method with adding trace elements based on ICP analyses 4 times a year

Water changes are needed as there is no 100% accurate way to test that every trace element is where it needs to be. Water changes are like insurance.

This assume that all salts will be evenly mixed even for elements that´s only is in the size of 1 g to each metric ton of salts. To be honest - they do not exist - the only way to do this is to make a liquid salt mix - there is in Germany but it is difficult and very expensive to both do and deliver liquid salt mixes.

Reef tanks are anti-scientific.

It means that you do not count ecology as a science - I do

Then lets start with indisputable facts.

(1) Salt mixes do not contain any industry standard of trace elements.

(2 The reefing industry doesn't even agree on what a trace element is.

(3) One salt mix may consider potassium to be a trace element, then put 'contains trace elements' on the label. Reefers then assume it's uranium or unobtanium then start threads about how often they should do water changes because they contain trace elements.

(4) Replace the term 'Trace Elements' with 'Britney Spears' when you see somebody seriously talking about Trace Elements. It's fun, and often makes more sense,

(5) There are a lot of amazing SPS tanks posted on this very site where the owner does very infrequent or no water changes at all. Therefore you cannot logically conclude water changes are a requirement, or make up psuedo science that claims they are required.

Tanks with minimal or no water changes should be our goal, not putting your thumbs in your ears and go 'la la la I can't hear you' because of purchase justification.

You got it!!!!

I take the hybrid approach - 150 gal tank...and do micro water changes every week. Only (1) 5 gallon bucket change a week. Easy, fast. I haven’t done this long enough to claim success but so far so good.

This is how the complete Balling solutions work - You have to take out tank water every week because the salinity rise

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Joedubyk]

OK - I´m probably lazy in that case. My aquarium - since the early spring 2017 it has only be 1 larger WC (around 60 % january 2018) However I use lot of Core 7 (around 55 ml of each/day) which means that I have to replace around 5 L of saltwater a week with RO water. It correspond to around 2 % weekly WC. Core 7 is a complete system including liquid trace components. I run a type of Triton method with adding trace elements based on ICP analyses 4 times a year






This assume that all salts will be evenly mixed even for elements that´s only is in the size of 1 g to each metric ton of salts. To be honest - they do not exist - the only way to do this is to make a liquid salt mix - there is in Germany but it is difficult and very expensive to both do and deliver liquid salt mixes.



It means that you do not count ecology as a science - I do



You got it!!!!


This is how the complete Balling solutions work - You have to take out tank water every week because the salinity rise

Sincerely Lasse

Triton methods are different in terms of what most people are talking about concerning wc. And a lot of those goregous SPS tanks did do wc for a long time and got to that point.

You have a gorgeous tank, though, a lot of those corals are *easier* than a full on acro tank.No disrespect, you have a show tank for sure.

I can indisputably say my tank looks so much better after each WC. I can clean out detirtus, the PE is better. I think trace elements are just a small part of the wc...there's likely other things that we can only guess.

 

[MnFish1]

I tried to do the “Look ma, no water changes” thing ...it failed
I haven’t given up on my quest however ... I spend $40/mo on salt
I haven’t given up .... trying Balling Hybrid with Kalk+2 ...we’ll see how long that last...
When is someone going to give us RELIABLE inexpensive & easy trace element testing?
Edit add: 2-3% daily H2O changes makes absolutely no mathematical sense...
if you are worried about stability 7-10% every 3-7 days is waaaaay better and is a better compromise IMO

Well here is the actual data:

1. Start with 100 gallon tank, change 2.5 gallons/day for 1 year ----> "New water: 99.9%"
2. Start with 100 gallon tank, change 8.5 gallons/week for 1 year --->"New water: 99.1%"

3. Start with 100 gallon tank, change 2.5 gallons/day for 3 Month ----> "New water: 89.6%"
4. Start with 100 gallon tank, change 8.5 gallons/week for 3 Month --->"New water: 65.6%"

So - as I think Randy Holmes-Farley has said - small water changes daily can be better than larger water changes less often.

Effective Water Change Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the effective water change amount of several combined smaller water changes.

www.hamzasreef.com

 

[Greybeard]

5 min for a water change?? Teach me your ways lol. My 20gal changes take about all in all atleast half hr when all is said and done and everything is dried and put away. But I'm usually taking my time and having my weekly convo's w my fish ; )

Not that hard, really...

Hit the 'water change mode' button on my Apex (turns off the return pump, other items that need to be off for a water change). Use a length of 1" ID Silicone hose to fill two 10g Rubbermaid buckets, making sure to get the swirling bit of detritus from where it gathers in the front of my (bare bottom) tank. Maybe a minute and a half. Turn off 'Water change mode' and hit the refill pump power. Takes about a minute to refill and stabilize. Walk the 2x 10g buckets out the back door and dump 'em in a gravel patch. Helps kill the weeds

Dried? Can't say I've ever dried out my wc buckets. Just dump 'em, there's a spot for them in my sump closet.

 

[VinsFins]

My reef has been running without any crash since 1997. 180 gallon large skimmer aero former 8/30. I also run ozone into it. Been running ozone about 20 years. I use a 100 gallon Rubbermaid sump wraith a 12 inch sandbed. I do 25 gallon water change twice a month using a siphon tube to clean the sandbed from the build up. I only dose kalkwasser, I use to use a calc reactor. No sps, lots of lps and softies, so no need for the calc reactor. Phosphates were my biggest issue, that is fixed due to GFO high capacity, and vodka dosing.
I have always had a large fish load, hence my phosphate issue. Sps were to much work to keep up with. See my pic of a 23 year old reef.

 

[wolfthefallen]

Reefing keeping has came along ways, but water changes are a general stable in all systems. While most people DoS Alk and Calc they don't dose trace elements. Really water changes are best to keep those trace elements up if you are not taking reading and DoSing them. That can get complicated, so why do it? If a system for automation comes out to track that Like the Trident does for Alk, Calc, and Mg. Then I might move that way.


So for now, Water changes. While I may not do it weekly like I should, I do about 35% every other week or so. Then a couple of small ones after that for a few days until all my new water I made is gone. IT just helps keep things in balance.

 

[Joe Rice]

About two years ago I decided to stop doing water changes. Here's my story (insert Law & Order, da dum here):

I've never understood the idea that water changes are necessary for replenishing trace elements, seeing as there are many products on the market that can replenish traces elements directly. Water changes only made sense to me as a way of exporting undesirable substances from the water. With so many other ways of exporting undesirables (refugiums, skimmers, activated carbon,etc.) it seemed possible that water changes were just a relic of older times that would gradually fade away.

Over the two years that I wasn't doing water changes, my corals never really flourished BUT they had never really flourished before so I didn't notice that the tank was probably in a slow decline until about three months ago when things really took a turn for the worse. Several SPS corals died, and many SPS and LPS looked like they were on the verge. At that point I finally decided to start doing 20% water changes every couple of weeks. Now, three months later, the tank is looking the best it's ever looked.

Of course, I've done many things over the past two years beside just changing my water change regime so I can't say for sure that it's the water changes. And I wasn't consistently using activated carbon over those two years so I wasn't availing myself of every export method. But the change has been dramatic and, at least for the near term, I'm back to doing water changes.

It seems entirely plausible that tanks build up undesirable substances that can't be removed except by water changes. It also seems like this could vary depending on environmental factors such as the air quality in the house. Perhaps it even depends on the contents of the tank - slow leaching of substances from equipment or allelopathic chemicals emitted by the tank's inhabitants.

I would love to get back to a no-water-change regime but for now, it's water changes for me.

 

[Doctorgori]

Well here is the actual data:

1. Start with 100 gallon tank, change 2.5 gallons/day for 1 year ----> "New water: 99.9%"
2. Start with 100 gallon tank, change 8.5 gallons/week for 1 year --->"New water: 99.1%"

3. Start with 100 gallon tank, change 2.5 gallons/day for 3 Month ----> "New water: 89.6%"
4. Start with 100 gallon tank, change 8.5 gallons/week for 3 Month --->"New water: 65.6%"

So - as I think Randy Holmes-Farley has said - small water changes daily can be better than larger water changes less often.

Effective Water Change Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the effective water change amount of several combined smaller water changes.

www.hamzasreef.com

yes, I get it ....appreciate the post ... I’m talking this through, while were are at it, I’m not debating just maybe the goals might be tangent.
I have to disclaimer this as its just on memory, from older assorted threads on the subject and a articles I read on water changes a long time ago, I don’t have the exact references.
For dilution, isn’t it a regression problem in math? or so I thought anyway. The thinking as I remember it was this (grossly paraphrasing) . In that removing 1% of a solution 10 times x isn’t as dilutive as 10% at once, thats as I recall it anyway.
Edit add: yes I love that one: water change calculator and this: Reef Chemistry

 

[Lasse]

I have said it before and I will say it again. According to trace elements - WC is not a safe tool. There is no way that any can guarantee that the trace metal content is the one described in every bag of dry salt manufactured. How do you evenly mix in 1 g in 1 metric ton and have the same concentration over the whole batch (if it is just 1 metric ton) ? I´m not against WC if you aim to correct something that´s wrong - but I will not use WC as a scheduled tool. This is if you use RO water for top of. If you use tap water for top off - when some WC maybe should be done.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[EMeyer]

Every time this debate comes up, I wonder why.

Water changes are the easiest maintenance step I conduct on my reefs. Easier than chemistry testing, easier than cleaning skimmers, easier than cleaning glass. MUCH easier than re gluing the corals that my snails have somehow knocked over.

I guess feeding the fish is easier. Thats probably the only tank task that is easier.

So my question is, what is the motivation for removing the easiest tank maintenance task that also happens to be the most effective? (you can replace 25% of your water and all dissolved substances in it, within a few minutes. Nothing else comes anywhere close in terms of effectiveness per unit time).

Cost? A bucket of salt costs less than some coral frags.

Are they necessary? That seems like an irrelevant question to me considering how relatively easy and cheap they are compared to other aquarium interventions. The question should be are they beneficial. I don't see anyone arguing they are not beneficial.

I will also note that the largest and most impressive coral growth facility I have ever visited (the Sea Simulator at the Australian Institute of Marine Science) doesnt bother with all the testing and dosing we do in our little tanks. They simply do continual water changes with natural seawater. In other words, when the experts with effectively unlimited resources for growing corals are given the option... they choose to do more water changes than we do, rather than less.