This hobby is humbling….

[Gone Reefin’]

So…my tank has been up for about 16 months, including tank transfer over 2.5 years. I’ve been through the uglies, instability in nutrients, etc, and I’ve lost some sticks along the way.

About 3 months ago, everything clicked. Nutrients stabilized, got into a routine, and everything started taking off (including acros). Did not STN a single piece over this time period. Thought I had finally figured out that nutrient stability was the key to success. FF to one week ago. NOTHING CHANGED. I had a tiny frag (BC honeybee) STN. Since then, I’ve had a frag start to STN each day. Today, Strawberry fields RTN out of nowhere. This one started to take off over the last month, throwing polyps in each direction. It had been in tank for 8 months.

I need advice and commiseration. Quite bummed. Here are some details:

• Mixed reef. I have a couple hammers, gorgs (PS), Trachy, pectinia, montis, birdsnest and acros. So far, only acros have met their demise. The hammers are unhappy (less inflated), montis and birdsnests look great.
• Around the time this started, I noticed my blueberry stars and yellow poletti lightening quite a bit. The blueberry stars looks brilliant (unreal blue/neon) but I think it is stressed.
• No lighting changes
• No flow changes
• Parameters: 15 NO3, 0.1PO4, 450 CAL, 8.0 pH, 1.026 SG - all steady for last month.

I know we are thinking pests. Only corals added in past 3 months have been BC. I do not suspect the usual suspects because:

• This is happening rapidly
• Corals from reputable source
• No evidence of pests

Can pests be dormant for months and then explode? Should I suspect chem warfare from mixed reef?

What I’ve done so far:

• 5% WC each day for last 4 days
• Added a small amount of passive carbon (I usually do not run this)
• Monitoring alkalinity more closely (My AFR demand has dropped by 25% over last week)

Thoughts and ideas please.

 

[Biokabe]

The very first thing you should look at when anything like this happens: Check and double check and triple check your water source.

Don't just accept that your water is 0 TDS. Actually test it, especially for metals. Use an ICP test if possible.

I speak from experience. Same situation as you, everything was going great, acros were finally growing, everything was happy. Then things just started dying without explanation.

To cut a long story short, the problem was copper in my water supply. I run an RO/DI system and it was showing 0 TDS, but a small amount of contaminants (including copper from my plumbing) were making it through in the very first few seconds that I started making water each time. So basically, I was adding trace amounts of copper to my ATO water. At first this did nothing, but since there wasn't an export source for the copper, it slowly built up in my display until it eventually reached the level where it could harm corals and other inverts.

 

[exnisstech]

The very first thing you should look at when anything like this happens: Check and double check and triple check your water source.

Don't just accept that your water is 0 TDS. Actually test it, especially for metals. Use an ICP test if possible.

I speak from experience. Same situation as you, everything was going great, acros were finally growing, everything was happy. Then things just started dying without explanation.

To cut a long story short, the problem was copper in my water supply. I run an RO/DI system and it was showing 0 TDS, but a small amount of contaminants (including copper from my plumbing) were making it through in the very first few seconds that I started making water each time. So basically, I was adding trace amounts of copper to my ATO water. At first this did nothing, but since there wasn't an export source for the copper, it slowly built up in my display until it eventually reached the level where it could harm corals and other inverts.

This is interesting. My entire house is plumbed in copper and I've been using the same RO system for 9 years and have not experienced this. Maybe my booster pump performs some type of flush?

 

[Biokabe]

This is interesting. My entire house is plumbed in copper and I've been using the same RO system for 9 years and have not experienced this. Maybe my booster pump performs some type of flush?

It's certainly possible. It could also be down to how mine is set up, or it could be down to irregularities with my plumbing (my kitchen sink will sometimes spit out random bits of sediment, and I know my house's water pressure is higher than normal). I also may have gone too long without replacing filters, or any number of other explanations. Certainly I don't think everyone with copper piping is going to experience the same thing.

 

[Gone Reefin’]

The very first thing you should look at when anything like this happens: Check and double check and triple check your water source.

Don't just accept that your water is 0 TDS. Actually test it, especially for metals. Use an ICP test if possible.

I speak from experience. Same situation as you, everything was going great, acros were finally growing, everything was happy. Then things just started dying without explanation.

To cut a long story short, the problem was copper in my water supply. I run an RO/DI system and it was showing 0 TDS, but a small amount of contaminants (including copper from my plumbing) were making it through in the very first few seconds that I started making water each time. So basically, I was adding trace amounts of copper to my ATO water. At first this did nothing, but since there wasn't an export source for the copper, it slowly built up in my display until it eventually reached the level where it could harm corals and other inverts.

Got it. I think I am going to order an ICP to be sure.

 

[Jasonak]

It can be crushing, one thing that came out of my latest bought with STN is I was asked by couple different people if I was using Aminos I do not use them regularly but I had just used them. So more aminos for me.
I pmd you also.

 

[Gone Reefin’]

Good to know about the aminos. I have not used them recently, but I was very tempted to grab some today. Likely not now! Prob a good thing, as it is taking every bit of my willpower not to change 100 things right now, which I know will only make it worse.

 

[schooncw]

From what I’ve seen and experienced, a mixed reef is the most difficult to keep, as the requirements for say, LPS and SPS are so different. Softies and LPS like dirty water and you have virtually no PO.

 

[Gone Reefin’]

From what I’ve seen and experienced, a mixed reef is the most difficult to keep, as the requirements for say, LPS and SPS are so different. Softies and LPS like dirty water and you have virtually no PO.

Thanks for the comment! Yes, the odd thing is the LPS are fine, except for the hammers. It's the acros that are mostly suffering. With a PO4 holding steady at 0.1 (not 0.01), I believe I have enough PO4 to sustain both SPS and LPS?

I agree though that this is a balancing act with the mixed reef. My pride and joy are the acros, so if the LPS parameters are a bit off, I will take that trade off to sustain the acros better.

 

[bubbgee]

When this happened to me, I stopped water changes and dosing anything outside of 2-part and checked all parameters and sent ICP. I do think a lot of it is also flow. I was getting a lot of STN and RTN from random frags until I got two gyres and moved pump placement. Soon enough, most of my acros have PE even during daylight.
At this point, I still want to add more pumps or a seawave for oscillating flow around the tank.

How is your flow currently?

 

[Gone Reefin’]

When this happened to me, I stopped water changes and dosing anything outside of 2-part and checked all parameters and sent ICP. I do think a lot of it is also flow. I was getting a lot of STN and RTN from random frags until I got two gyres and moved pump placement. Soon enough, most of my acros have PE even during daylight.
At this point, I still want to add more pumps or a seawave for oscillating flow around the tank.

How is your flow currently?

I believe my flow could be improved. This tank has (2) Nero 3's opposing each other from each side (slightly offset to front and back) along with the return pump running to 4 outlets on a 3' long 50 gallon. There are places where flow could be improved (especially with growth), but the STN is appearing indiscriminately in low flow or high flow zones. I clean the nero's regularly to ensure max flow and they are at 100%. I have ordered the ICP and will report back on that when I get results. I am really hoping something shows. I fear this is bacterial/pathological, in which case I feel I am much less in control.

 

[Gone Reefin’]

In the last 3 days, 3 more pieces have acquired STN. One is a Garf that has been with me since the old tank 18 months ago. I am fragging off what I can to keep it alive.

So far, still only acros impacted. And oddly enough, Staghorn acros have been spared (so far). A fellow forum member pointed me to an article on STN by Mike Paletta. It was a good read and I believe my issue is related to my bacterial biome. The speed of the STN spread (ignore the oxymoron) from coral to coral points away from pests (as does my observation and coral vendor selection process) and the lack of involvement of fish/inverts and even other SPS is evident. Contamination cannot be ruled out, ICP vials should arrive tomorrow. All other parameters continue to be stable with the exception of alkalinity rising (due to stunted coral growth and death), but I have immediately cut back my AFR to keep it stable at 8-8.3.

 

[Red_Beard]

Good luck brother. I had some of this happen too, my issue was elevated levels of some things, in part from a bad salt bucket and another on my part for overdosing. For me, in thay case, what helped most was massive water changes. I changed out 30-40% every other day for a week and that all cleared right up. I dont know how effective that would be against a bacterial issue though. Fingers crossed your ICP shows something. Way easier to fix that than your biome.

 

[blackgate]

Just an FYI but I’ve done an in tank cipro treatment before with corals and fish and saved my nem with no issues or adverse side effects that I could see. I’m sure there was plenty of bacterial die off because my gig survived its infection so if you do have vibrio or some other infection, maybe this could help?

 

[Gone Reefin’]

Just an FYI but I’ve done an in tank cipro treatment before with corals and fish and saved my nem with no issues or adverse side effects that I could see. I’m sure there was plenty of bacterial die off because my gig survived its infection so if you do have vibrio or some other infection, maybe this could help?

Good idea. You are not the only one that has mentioned it. I may be getting close to executing this.

 

[Gone Reefin’]

Good luck brother. I had some of this happen too, my issue was elevated levels of some things, in part from a bad salt bucket and another on my part for overdosing. For me, in thay case, what helped most was massive water changes. I changed out 30-40% every other day for a week and that all cleared right up. I dont know how effective that would be against a bacterial issue though. Fingers crossed your ICP shows something. Way easier to fix that than your biome.

Thanks man. I hope the ICP has a smoking gun. Last one was 9 months ago and there were no flags, but a lot can change...Vials should be here tomorrow.

 

[winzig]

What was the verdict?

 

[Gone Reefin’]

Glad you asked! Outcome first. Every single acro in this tank died, about 2 dozen, in a period of 10 days. All other SPS, LPS, gorgs, fish, inverts fine, outside of a hammer dying.

Halfway into this death, dosed Cipro. Did not slow down. I won’t knock the Cipro, because I feel things were in a weakened state and on their way out when I started dosing. Completed Cipro after 6 days. PO4 spiked and now algae bloom. I view this as a positive for a reset.

Alk demand dropped in half during death and Cipro. It has now recovered 25% of that back. Montis and birdsnests are now in a growth spurt.

ICP came back with nothing of note. PO4 is elevated from Cipro treatment.

This sucked. Stuff nightmares are made of. The worst part is not knowing why. No mistake was made, no alk spike/heater malfunction, etc. No contamination per ICP. Best guess is a mean viral or bacterial pathogen swept the acros. Worst part is never can be sure it won’t happen again.

BUT, getting back on the horse. Bought a dirt cheap acro frag a few days ago and it is alive, and maybe even putting out a base. If this thrives over the next few weeks, more acros are coming…..

 

[Red_Beard]

Glad you asked! Outcome first. Every single acro in this tank died, about 2 dozen, in a period of 10 days. All other SPS, LPS, gorgs, fish, inverts fine, outside of a hammer dying.

Halfway into this death, dosed Cipro. Did not slow down. I won’t knock the Cipro, because I feel things were in a weakened state and on their way out when I started dosing. Completed Cipro after 6 days. PO4 spiked and now algae bloom. I view this as a positive for a reset.

Alk demand dropped in half during death and Cipro. It has now recovered 25% of that back. Montis and birdsnests are now in a growth spurt.

ICP came back with nothing of note. PO4 is elevated from Cipro treatment.

This sucked. Stuff nightmares are made of. The worst part is not knowing why. No mistake was made, no alk spike/heater malfunction, etc. No contamination per ICP. Best guess is a mean viral or bacterial pathogen swept the acros. Worst part is never can be sure it won’t happen again.

BUT, getting back on the horse. Bought a dirt cheap acro frag a few days ago and it is alive, and maybe even putting out a base. If this thrives over the next few weeks, more acros are coming…..

Wow, that really sucks, sorry to hear it. Not being able to pin it on anything does indeed make it worse. Glad it is starting to turn around though!