Thoughts on Hawaii Ban

Teemingtank

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Governmental environmental regulations are extremely important. Not to mention the other services that government provides (schools, medicare/medicaid, social security, roads, 911, police/fire services, welfare assistance, regulations on business, etc.)
You do realize where the money comes from for every single “government” service you just listed...

Taking care of the environment is important, leaving it up to the government is not. Just look at the VA..
 

Teemingtank

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Certainly they are, when managed responsibly. But this action of the State of Hawaii is nothing more than an unnecessary slap in the face to free enterprise, and is based on their mistaken belief that the aquarium trade is a threat to those species of fish involved. It is a heinous totalitarian imposition on the people.
Similar to the Asian arowana ban. Can’t get one in the US because it’s an endangered species. However, they’re proven breeders in captivity. Seems like the best method of conservation would be a regulated importation, not an out right ban. It’s hard for a species to go extinct if we’re successfully producing them in captivity.

whether it’s totalitarian or not is a matter of perspective, and you’re entitled to that. I’d imagine Hawaiian fish harvesters share that same opinion. I personally think it’s another example of overstretch that will fall flat on its face, like the GND.

Some government regulation is good! That’s why I feel comfortable taking medicine or eating at a restaurant. Too much is bad, there has to be equilibrium.
 

snorklr

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its a big world...and usually when you try to solve one problem you create a bigger one someplace else...enact enviornmental laws? manufacturing moves to where there are none...and when it comes to fish and coral those are the places where they do it the worst way possible cause they're poor countries where no one is looking over their shoulder...or like drugs the price becomes high enough to make smuggling worthwhile so someone in hawaii will still be clandestinely catching fish...i doubt the powers that be have the resources and manpower to catch everybody....OMG i just realized the tang police could actually become a government agency...
 

Ryan Doolittle

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What this hobby needs is the equivalent of the Pittman-Robersron foundation found in the hunting community.

Frankly I am not buying into the captive bred market, not because I don't think its a great idea, but because of quality or lack there of. We pay a premium for captive bred fish and a good number of them are deformed or cull quality fish, even from these big name captive breeders. Just look at clownfish. I refuse to pay a premium for culls. When perfect fish can be reproduced and sold like they are out of the ocean, then I will pay the captive breeding tax.
 

ca1ore

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Has seemed to me for some years that captive breeding was going to be the future of the hobby. I find the logic that ‘captive breeding will reduce the scarcity of animals and that’s a bad thing’ somewhat torturous LOL. While it may well be true that other, better lobbied, industries impact the reefs more than the ornamental fish hobby, the reality is that wild reefs are in desperate straits and I’m not entirely sure where I stand on fish collecting bans.

For those writing the epitaph on this hobby, I think that’s almost certainly an over reaction and premature. Most corals can be captive propagated, so while bans on them would prevent newly discovered morphs from the hobby, the ability to keep corals would continue unabated. My tank has been a SPS producer for a couple of years now. Acquired frags over that time are exclusively from fellow hobbyists. Fish are more problematic of course, and some, like pseudoanthias may never be captive bred, but tangs, angels, clowns, damsels, etc. are clearly doable. As wild sources become unavailable, the economic motivation for CB increases. Prices will be higher initially, but perhaps not permanently.

As I noted in the other thread on this topic, I’d better take really good care of my yellow tang. Going on 9 years, hopefully another 15 to come. Tang outlived my dog ,..
 
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vetteguy53081

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I believe in time, it will become restricted or even lifted. Since large storms a decade ago in Hawaii, the government has been monitoring the wildlife in which this was bound to happen.
Similar to Indonesia ban on coral, events with fish will be similar. Bear in mind that on the other side of hawaii and other parts of the Pacific Yellows are available. The market price is $80 currently and cant see but we will see in excess og $100.
I have 6 yellows and they were $39 to $49 when i got them.
 

hds4216

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You do realize where the money comes from for every single “government” service you just listed...

Taking care of the environment is important, leaving it up to the government is not. Just look at the VA..
The government is the only entity that has enough power to protect the environment. That's not going to change. Also, saying "just look at the VA". Also, you can't just say "look at the VA" to dismiss arguments revolving around government regulation. They're not the same.
 

Ippyroy

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I think the ban will just put more pressure on captive breeding which I think is a great thing. All of my livestock other than the CUC is aquacultured. It can be done. It is the same thing as dry rock vs. live rock in a lot of ways. We as a hobby just need to look for new ways to accomplish old things. The ban will not stop people from having reef tanks. We will just have to change our socking lists. I have been to Hawaii many times over the past 2 decades and I can easily say that I have seen the fish populations and diversity going down. There are many reasons for this. Too much sunscreen to weather to overharvesting to a volcano erupting for a few decades. If me not being able to purchase and keep the fish I want will help the reefs get better in the ocean, I am happy to do it.
This hobby is expensive. Try flyfishing, cabinetry, RC, mountain biking, or jus about any other hobby. This is the only hobby I am into that gets cheaper with time.
 

Familyman2010

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Pretty sure i read that people with liscenses can still catch fish and that they had issued 3000 of them prior. So i doubt well see a increase in price anytime soon.


Are blue tang caught in hawaii ? I mean prices are already higher thanks to Covid-19.

Saw a blue tang a good 4 inchs long at petco yesturday for 109$ thinking.. maybe i should go grab him before someone else does. I dont see them that size usually in petcos or anywhere else. Usually theyre like 1 inch too small
That’s abo up t the going rate. Here in Hawaii for the blue tang
 

Stevel

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Tangs do live in other reefs. Will importers not get them from Indo or other sources.
Yes there are tangs in other parts of the world. I have been on both sides of this argument. I commercial fished the Gulf of Mexico back in the 80’s and seen the destruction of the fish population due to long lines and fish traps. Undersized fish killed with never given a chance to spawn new life. Grouper and snapper were so abundant back then it was crazy. Now go to same spots and not one to be seen . They put restrictions and closures and now we are seeing good results. This all can be managed if we as a whole work with government to save our reef life. Hobbits are the least of their worries. Pollution, global warming are playing more a role in the destruction of our reefs. Sorry for the tangent but it’s means a lot to me that my grandchildren can snorkel any reef and see what brought me to this hobby.
 

Evieeeeee

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Like it updated my thoughts ^^. I feel our hobby is falling apart and in 5-10 years we will have so many specimens by breeders we will have to release or kill them because their breeding like crazy. This is make the hobby more boring and common
I also feel our hobby is slowly falling apart, and some may disagree but here’s why i feel this. By all the changes happening and going to happen and eventually everything 100% aquaculture is going to make all of livestock not “uncommon or rare” anymore. Breeders are going to now breed fish like crazy for money which is going to make every specimen population go sky high. This is going to make the hobby less interesting because we will now have all these specimens by breeders

Man what's this supposed to even mean? Sorry to say but this isn't a super secret exclusive club for collecting rare pokemon. I don't care if there's more captive bred yellow tangs than clownfish in the next 5-10 years, I'll still try to keep one in my tank if I can to care for them and observe them. I, and a lot of others, got into this hobby because the Ocean is beautiful and I want to keep a slice of it in my house not because I can collect all the rare fish and corals and brag about it to other people. If rarity is so important to you I suggest you get into a hobby of collecting things like shoes that literally can't breed and constantly multiply. I heard kids really like yeezys, maybe you'll like it too. Or maybe too many people have a pair for you to enjoy getting into it, who knows.

If the ban lights a fire under the various breeders to start breeding more fish when they can I'm all for it. It will create hardier fish and fish that has never been exposed to the parasites and shipping stress from being imported, how is that ever a bad thing? In fact I hope that as we learn what is important in breeding these fish it helps us understand the kinds of environment these fish need even better so we can help preserve their natural environment as well so there's a ton of them swimming around.
 

Ippyroy

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Man what's this supposed to even mean? Sorry to say but this isn't a super secret exclusive club for collecting rare pokemon. I don't care if there's more captive bred yellow tangs than clownfish in the next 5-10 years, I'll still try to keep one in my tank if I can to care for them and observe them. I, and a lot of others, got into this hobby because the Ocean is beautiful and I want to keep a slice of it in my house not because I can collect all the rare fish and corals and brag about it to other people. If rarity is so important to you I suggest you get into a hobby of collecting things like shoes that literally can't breed and constantly multiply. I heard kids really like yeezys, maybe you'll like it too. Or maybe too many people have a pair for you to enjoy getting into it, who knows.

If the ban lights a fire under the various breeders to start breeding more fish when they can I'm all for it. It will create hardier fish and fish that has never been exposed to the parasites and shipping stress from being imported, how is that ever a bad thing? In fact I hope that as we learn what is important in breeding these fish it helps us understand the kinds of environment these fish need even better so we can help preserve their natural environment as well so there's a ton of them swimming around.
I agree with you, but it is my understanding that they use NSW at the places for breeding the tangs. The chances of them having parasites would still be very high. The stress factor is huge though.
 

Evieeeeee

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I agree with you, but it is my understanding that they use NSW at the places for breeding the tangs. The chances of them having parasites would still be very high. The stress factor is huge though.
Thank you for correcting me. But it's not unlikely that within the next 10 years that we make enough discoveries to switch to artificial saltwater, even if these kinds of fish are a lot harder to raise. At least that's my hope
 

saltyfins

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Good for them!
The earth is 4.5b years old.
Man has destroyed it in just the last 100 years.
Great to see leaders do the right thing, even if it wrecks my fun.
Maybe there is some hope.
when the rest of the world, does what they do....how does the US's changes....change anything? Not trying to argue...just clue me in. because, if China/Japan etc...throws their stuff in the ocean, and we dont... it doesnt change anything, only kills the small businesses, not contributing to the mess.
 

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