Treating ICH in a display (reef tank)?

[gideon2086]

4 years into the hobby and I'm unfortunately faced with my first ever Ich outbreak. I have a large tank (220g) with large fish. SPS dominant. I noticed a few days ago that the two Clarkii clowns were starting to become elusive and stick to the rear of the rocks, which was abnormal. Yesterday I noticed clear signs of Ich on the tangs. I now see it on virtually off the fish. Naso, yellow tang, powder brown, tomini, fox face, clarkii clowns, gramma, etc etc etc.. there are a lot of fish in this tank. I run a strong UV, but had it off for a few days to dose Fluconzole to combat an algae outbreak - I'm thinking this exasperated it.

I have a hospital tank that I can set up, but there is no way I'm getting all of these fish into it.. there's no way I'll be able to catch all of these fish.

I've dosed metroplex and focus in their food and I dosed Parashield into the tank at the advice of... Google. I have about $5000 of coral in the tank so I need to be careful. RIght now, everything looks fine except for a stylo.. which is an acceptable loss if the fish survive.

Am I doomed? Can the fish be saved while in the DT? I leave for a week of work travel on Monday and my wife will be left to tend to the fish... she can handle basic dosing, but not much more.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.. this could end up as one of my greatest losses yet..

 

[Jay Hemdal]

4 years into the hobby and I'm unfortunately faced with my first ever Ich outbreak. I have a large tank (220g) with large fish. SPS dominant. I noticed a few days ago that the two Clarkii clowns were starting to become elusive and stick to the rear of the rocks, which was abnormal. Yesterday I noticed clear signs of Ich on the tangs. I now see it on virtually off the fish. Naso, yellow tang, powder brown, tomini, fox face, clarkii clowns, gramma, etc etc etc.. there are a lot of fish in this tank. I run a strong UV, but had it off for a few days to dose Fluconzole to combat an algae outbreak - I'm thinking this exasperated it.

I have a hospital tank that I can set up, but there is no way I'm getting all of these fish into it.. there's no way I'll be able to catch all of these fish.

I've dosed metroplex and focus in their food and I dosed Parashield into the tank at the advice of... Google. I have about $5000 of coral in the tank so I need to be careful. RIght now, everything looks fine except for a stylo.. which is an acceptable loss if the fish survive.

Am I doomed? Can the fish be saved while in the DT? I leave for a week of work travel on Monday and my wife will be left to tend to the fish... she can handle basic dosing, but not much more.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.. this could end up as one of my greatest losses yet..

IMO - there are NO effective in-tank treatments for Cryptocaryon that are reef safe. There certainly a lot of them on the market, but they have a poor track record for handling acute infections.

Can you get the UV back on? That won't effect a total cure, but it will help manage things. Do you have a bare bottom or sand substrate? There is a rarely used technique mentioned in the literature of siphoning the bottom of the tank in the evening. This removes many of the resting tomonts before they release the infective theronts in the early morning. Again, it won't cure the problem, but it helps in management.

Skip the "treatments" of medicated food or "enhancing the fish's diet" things like that really work. Metronidazole needs to be dosed in food at 5000ppm in order to be curative - and it is so bitter at that dose, that I've never been able to get fish to feed on it more than once or twice. Basically, if your fish are feeding well on metro laced food, you are under-dosing.


Jay

 

[Frizzy reefnewb]

Having the same issues in the past 5 years...I’ve tried reef safe ich treatments and they do nothing ....I think the only thing you can do is feed and feed heavy hopefully they can fight it off ...IMO most end up dying sadly

 

[gideon2086]

IMO - there are NO effective in-tank treatments for Cryptocaryon that are reef safe. There certainly a lot of them on the market, but they have a poor track record for handling acute infections.

Can you get the UV back on? That won't effect a total cure, but it will help manage things. Do you have a bare bottom or sand substrate? There is a rarely used technique mentioned in the literature of siphoning the bottom of the tank in the evening. This removes many of the resting tomonts before they release the infective theronts in the early morning. Again, it won't cure the problem, but it helps in management.

Skip the "treatments" of medicated food or "enhancing the fish's diet" things like that really work. Metronidazole needs to be dosed in food at 5000ppm in order to be curative - and it is so bitter at that dose, that I've never been able to get fish to feed on it more than once or twice. Basically, if your fish are feeding well on metro laced food, you are under-dosing.


Jay

Thanks for the response Jay. I did turn the UV back on yesterday and slowed down the flow through it when I realized I had this issue - it certainly outweighs the algae issue. I do have sand in the tank.

I know the best answer is to get these fish out and treat them with meds in the water column... but short of that is your recommendation to cease the metroplex and the Parashield and ride it out?

 

[gideon2086]

Having the same issues in the past 5 years...I’ve tried reef safe ich treatments and they do nothing ....I think the only thing you can do is feed and feed heavy hopefully they can fight it off ...IMO most end up dying sadly

Argh, I know that is the real answer here and I'm reaching for hope at this point. I have more than a couple thousand of dollars worth of fish in this tank and I've grown very attached to many of them over the years. I'm shocked that the stress from fluconazole triggered this.. nothing else in the tank has changed and it's ultra stable.

 

[Frizzy reefnewb]

Argh, I know that is the real answer here and I'm reaching for hope at this point. I have more than a couple thousand of dollars worth of fish in this tank and I've grown very attached to many of them over the years. I'm shocked that the stress from fluconazole triggered this.. nothing else in the tank has changed and it's ultra stable.

You would think such a expensive hobby some kinda treatment that works in reef tanks would be out ...but I guess that’s how they keep the money rolling in ..

 

[ScottB]

4 years into the hobby and I'm unfortunately faced with my first ever Ich outbreak. I have a large tank (220g) with large fish. SPS dominant. I noticed a few days ago that the two Clarkii clowns were starting to become elusive and stick to the rear of the rocks, which was abnormal. Yesterday I noticed clear signs of Ich on the tangs. I now see it on virtually off the fish. Naso, yellow tang, powder brown, tomini, fox face, clarkii clowns, gramma, etc etc etc.. there are a lot of fish in this tank. I run a strong UV, but had it off for a few days to dose Fluconzole to combat an algae outbreak - I'm thinking this exasperated it.

I have a hospital tank that I can set up, but there is no way I'm getting all of these fish into it.. there's no way I'll be able to catch all of these fish.

I've dosed metroplex and focus in their food and I dosed Parashield into the tank at the advice of... Google. I have about $5000 of coral in the tank so I need to be careful. RIght now, everything looks fine except for a stylo.. which is an acceptable loss if the fish survive.

Am I doomed? Can the fish be saved while in the DT? I leave for a week of work travel on Monday and my wife will be left to tend to the fish... she can handle basic dosing, but not much more.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.. this could end up as one of my greatest losses yet..

Really sorry to hear about your ich troubles. I wish I could argue against what @Jay Hemdal is saying. Lord knows I have tried my best to prove him wrong with a few in tank treatments. With a mature SPS reef, I'd need to remove all the coral in order to remove the fish. And then try to house them for a fallow... I feel your dilemma.

Hopefully most will pull through. I had one outbreak that looked real bad and they ALL pulled through. Another time maybe 1/4 did not make it. Your wife needs to be prepped to potentially deal with some mortality.

Really sorry.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the response Jay. I did turn the UV back on yesterday and slowed down the flow through it when I realized I had this issue - it certainly outweighs the algae issue. I do have sand in the tank.

I know the best answer is to get these fish out and treat them with meds in the water column... but short of that is your recommendation to cease the metroplex and the Parashield and ride it out?

I've never used Parashield, but it seems to be one of those plant oil-based tonics. I've not seen any actual studies proving those work in aquariums. Here is my article on medicated foods, and why they are more difficult to use than most everyone believes:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

There is also a great medicated food calculator in the fish disease section, but I warn you, it is complicated to do that correctly.

The sand siphoning idea has been studied, I don't have the reference handy, but it is Colorni and Burgess, 1997. My recollection is that they did this in smaller tanks, so I'm not sure you will be able to get all of your tank siphoned off properly....

Do you have any idea how this got into your DT?

I hesitate to mention this, as I have not used it myself in a reef, but Ruby Reef Rally Pro is touted as being "reef safe" and it actually contains ingredients that have been proven to be effective against ich. With $5 k of corals hanging in the balance, you need to research that VERY carefully....


Jay

 

[jdiefenbaugh]

When I was working for a PA several years ago, we were renovating a 12,000 reef tank, and the fish (several hundred) developed a bad crypt outbreak. We added probably 40 or 50 cleaner shrimp, and a group of cleaner wrasses, and it did mitigate the problem quite a bit. I don't know if this is really practical in your case. On a 220, if it were me, I'd remove all the fish and treat elsewhere and let the display run fallow for 4-6 months. Once it's in the DT, it's going to be there, and any new additions or stress events can potentially trigger another outbreak.

 

[gideon2086]

You would think such a expensive hobby some kinda treatment that works in reef tanks would be out ...but I guess that’s how they keep the money rolling in

Really sorry to hear about your ich troubles. I wish I could argue against what @Jay Hemdal is saying. Lord knows I have tried my best to prove him wrong with a few in tank treatments. With a mature SPS reef, I'd need to remove all the coral in order to remove the fish. And then try to house them for a fallow... I feel your dilemma.

Hopefully most will pull through. I had one outbreak that looked real bad and they ALL pulled through. Another time maybe 1/4 did not make it. Your wife needs to be prepped to potentially deal with some mortality.

Really sorry.

Appreciate your words. The mortality while I'm gone is another concern - she won't be able to find the fish if they die behind rocks. I may go pickup some more hermits, nassarius and emeralds to help with this just in case..

 

[gideon2086]

I've never used Parashield, but it seems to be one of those plant oil-based tonics. I've not seen any actual studies proving those work in aquariums. Here is my article on medicated foods, and why they are more difficult to use than most everyone believes:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

There is also a great medicated food calculator in the fish disease section, but I warn you, it is complicated to do that correctly.

The sand siphoning idea has been studied, I don't have the reference handy, but it is Colorni and Burgess, 1997. My recollection is that they did this in smaller tanks, so I'm not sure you will be able to get all of your tank siphoned off properly....

Do you have any idea how this got into your DT?

I hesitate to mention this, as I have not used it myself in a reef, but Ruby Reef Rally Pro is touted as being "reef safe" and it actually contains ingredients that have been proven to be effective against ich. With $5 k of corals hanging in the balance, you need to research that VERY carefully....


Jay

I have researched Ruby Red in the last day because of this issue. Reviews are mostly positive, but there are mentions of loss. Unfortunately, I can't acquire it locally, so I won't have it before I leave for work travel on Monday. Even if I could.. I wouldn't trust my wife to identify signs of stress in the tank because of it and then respond accordingly. Looks like I'm praying to the gods and riding this one out.. hoping I come back to fish in the tank next week. :|

 

[jeffchapok]

I hesitate to mention this, as I have not used it myself in a reef, but Ruby Reef Rally Pro is touted as being "reef safe" and it actually contains ingredients that have been proven to be effective against ich. With $5 k of corals hanging in the balance, you need to research that VERY carefully...

I have used the Ruby Reef Rally/Kick Ich combo in my DT and my corals were definitely unhappy. I think most of them survived, but I'll never do it again.

That said, I've used Reef Rally by itself to combat uronema with no problems. So I suspect the Kick Ich component was at fault. BTW, the company makes no claims that Reef Rally combats ich by itself.

I manage ich in my tank and seldom see a spot. But I run UV 24x7. My UV bulb burned out once and within days my fish had spots. I keep a spare bulb on hand now.

 

[gideon2086]

I have used the Ruby Reef Rally/Kick Ich combo in my DT and my corals were definitely unhappy. I think most of them survived, but I'll never do it again.

That said, I've used Reef Rally by itself to combat uronema with no problems. So I suspect the Kick Ich component was at fault. BTW, the company makes no claims that Reef Rally combats ich by itself.

I manage ich in my tank and seldom see a spot. But I run UV 24x7. My UV bulb burned out once and within days my fish had spots. I keep a spare bulb on hand now.

Turning the UV back on was the first thing I did - we'll see how it goes.

 

[Glenng78]

My vote would be to figure out a way to catch all of those fish , and put them through a tank transfer method , followed by a storage period while the tank sits fallow for 76 days minimum.
a lot of people say they can’t afford any type of hospital or quarantine setup, but to be honest, with the expense of fish and corals these days, I don’t think it’s optional.

 

[vetteguy53081]

For what its worth, I have tried:

parashield: Cant say it did anything, but hurt nothing

Polyp Lab MEDIC : I swear this actually saved my butt in my 660g with a huge outbreak (try netting out 39 fish) It took a full 8 days and 4 vials but worth what could have been a loss of a couple of thousand dollars in fish

Ruby Rally Pro : I used this after Medic for 10 days as a follow up. Its been about 16 months- Never had another outbreak.

I WILL HOWEVER AGREE WITH JAY THAT THESE ARE SNAKE OILS AND OFTEN A GAMBLE, BUT REEF SAFE DOES NOT MEAN EFFECTIVE.

 

[pasquale petrovia]

Sorry about your problem. I had it about a year and a half ago and put all my fish in QT for 80 days because the first time I went 60 and it came back. Tank was free of ich from then on. I always QT my fish for at least 45 days. Copper and prazi

 

[justinseigmund]

Okay so I’ll begin with I’ve only been feeding for a year and a half now so take that for what you will, but I’m my personal experience (3 weeks ago) I had a large dino outbreak all over my 165g, i read online that a natural way to kill dinos is to turn the temp of the tank over 82 degreesF, over the next week the Dinos went away rapidly like over the course of 6 days. Now in the meantime while the temp was rising almost alllll of my fish broke out with ich I mean almost every single fish. So after more reading I came across a few articles from what I know to be cridble companies and was told that most variation of ick can’t survive over 86 degreesF and one I tunes it up to 87.6-87 the ich went away in a few day. Could have been dumb luck maybe not but that’s just my input for anyone who’s like me and refuses to dose random hit or miss products kn my tank. #happyreefing

 

[Jase4224]

For what its worth, I have tried:

parashield: Cant say it did anything, but hurt nothing

Polyp Lab MEDIC : I swear this actually saved my butt in my 660g with a huge outbreak (try netting out 39 fish) It took a full 8 days and 4 vials but worth what could have been a loss of a couple of thousand dollars in fish

Ruby Rally Pro : I used this after Medic for 10 days as a follow up. Its been about 16 months- Never had another outbreak.

I WILL HOWEVER AGREE WITH JAY THAT THESE ARE SNAKE OILS AND OFTEN A GAMBLE, BUT REEF SAFE DOES NOT MEAN EFFECTIVE.

Last month I started using Reef Revolution Parasite Remover which is a ‘peroxide salt’ which I believe is similar if not the same as Polyp Labs Medic. I began use to save my wild caught percula clown pair which had what looked to me (I cannot positively identify sorry) brook and white spot. The looked bad and they were becoming lethargic and stopped eating. I tried two fresh water dips and a peroxide bath to no avail. I ordered the RR Parasite Remover and dosed the recommended amount at 7am and 7pm daily and after 2 days the inflection suddenly disappeared. It reappeared after 4 days but subsided again the next day never to return. I continued this dosing for two weeks then a single dose a day for another week. I cannot prove that peroxide salts saved my fish but highly doubt that my clowns magically kicked there fungus by themselves when they were clearly going downhill.

No problems with corals, bio filter or chemistry so in my opinion and experience totally reef safe and would absolutely use this product again. I would recommend peroxide salts to anyone experiencing fungal infections in a reef tank and dose twice a day early in the morning and at night after the lights go out. Again I cannot prove anything but I would use this again and in my experience and belief it saved my fish which are now doing awesome.

 

[schooncw]

When I was working for a PA several years ago, we were renovating a 12,000 reef tank, and the fish (several hundred) developed a bad crypt outbreak. We added probably 40 or 50 cleaner shrimp, and a group of cleaner wrasses, and it did mitigate the problem quite a bit. I don't know if this is really practical in your case. On a 220, if it were me, I'd remove all the fish and treat elsewhere and let the display run fallow for 4-6 months. Once it's in the DT, it's going to be there, and any new additions or stress events can potentially trigger another outbreak.

But cleaner shrimp and wrasses do not "really" help with ich, as the parasite is below the skin.

 

[jdiefenbaugh]

But cleaner shrimp and wrasses do not "really" help with ich, as the parasite is below the skin.

They helped the fish battle through an active outbreak just fine. It's obviously still in there, but under control I'd say.