Umbrella effect on Reverse Space Monsters

Discussion in 'Zoa Discussion (CLUB ZOA)' started by ReeferAdrian, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. ReeferAdrian

    ReeferAdrian Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey all,

    I have been reading up a lot on zoas and with one of my colony of reverse space monsters doing the umbrella thing, am looking for ways to help it recover. It has been like this for almost 2 weeks now. There are no reaction to the polyps when it was touched (typical of umbrella effect). Other colonies are doing fine except for this particular one. I have moved it from a lower position to a higher one, as i was thinking that its not getting enough of the lighting.

    All parameters are on point. Im puzzled as to why. Been having it for 3 months and it just happened. Nothing changed, the lights, water params has been stable.

    I have read that hydrogen peroxide helps. I am looking at getting a cheaper one, at 6% concentration to try out, but does it really help and if so, whats the best way to go about it?

    upload_2017-9-8_12-15-16.png
     

  2. CodyRVA

    CodyRVA Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    1,429
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC
    How long have they been in the higher light and how much more light are they getting? IME when this happens they're not getting enough light. Good news is they're not closed up so I wouldn't worry about pests or any melting happening. If you're worried about too much light either move them slowly over a longer period of time, or frag them and experiment.
     
  3. joshporksandwic

    joshporksandwic Zoa addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Showcase Editor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2011
    Messages:
    7,049
    Likes Received:
    1,960
    Location:
    miami
    Reverse space monsters are pink and golds? But they do that in many occasions when feeding, stressed or i think sometimes they're stretching
     
  4. ReeferAdrian

    ReeferAdrian Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    1
    Moved them up a week ago, and they are not getting any better. Basically they are on the sandbed before this, and i have moved them up to the middle. Would a peroxide dip be good? I'm out of ideas as to why this is happening. :(
     
  5. ReeferAdrian

    ReeferAdrian Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    1
    The thing is that they are not even feeding when this happened, and it prolonged up to now. Stress wise, if it is related to light or wave, i have moved them to something opposite of what they were getting before. Hmmm... this is really puzzling.
     
  6. CodyRVA

    CodyRVA Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    1,429
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC
    I would stop moving them and keep a close eye. I've had some colonies do this, about drove myself crazy trying to figure it out. Unless they start melting, I think you should let them alone and see what happens. They might not look happy, but zoas/palys are pretty resilient... they can acclimate to a wide variety of parameters.
     
  7. ReeferAdrian

    ReeferAdrian Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    1
    The colony now is starting to melt. Should i take it out before it pollutes the water? I'm quite saddened by this sudden demise.
    Although there are still a few polyps not melted, should i try to frag them out? (note these remaining ones still have the umbrella effect)
     
  8. CodyRVA

    CodyRVA Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    1,429
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC
    Picture? You can try fragging some, but that usually just stresses them out more, softies are delicate when fragging. What for flow are they getting? Do you know the PAR value they're in? No other critter could be bugging them?
     
  9. ReeferAdrian

    ReeferAdrian Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'll try to get a picture when I am home later but most of them are now closed up and melting. No critters/pest bugging them. Flow wise, currently low to med flow, changed them from the med to high they were getting before during my first post.

    PAR wise I am not quite sure as I do not have a meter. But they are at the middle part of the tank (previously on the sand bed), I do have zoas at the bottom, middle, and higher part of the tank with no issues.
     
  10. A. grandis

    A. grandis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    390
    Location:
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    Look mainly for:
    * Low light, or wrong spectrum (too blue for too long)...
    * Poor water chemistry...
    * Misuse of GFO/Carbon...
    * System is too young.

    This is my own quote from the other thread:

    "That is one of the mysteries of keeping zoanthids, nominatively Zoathus spp.

    Well, here is a list of things we should keep in mind:

    1) Lack of light or too much light. More towards low light and low flow at the same time.
    2) Sudden changes in the water chemistry, temperature and flow. Higher temperatures, specially!
    3) The use of activated carbon and/or GFO. BTW I don't recommend GFO at all!!
    4) Internal muscles atrophied due to lack of use, to collect food particles from water column.
    Regular feeding could help PREVENT the syndrome.
    5) Perhaps an internal pathogen in some cases? Don't ask me what pathogen!!
    6) Natural part of their metabolism. A way to clean themselves, like pooping, or before expel zooxanthellae.
    7) Irritators!!! Some times the polyps are irritated by organisms living around their bases and they develop weird shapes, like umbrella syndrome. Look for amphipods and hydroids around their bases, specially at night!!! Normally, if that is the case, it would happen with more than one polyp though!

    Do I have to say that the combination of 2 or more of the above list could do it too?

    Most of the time the umbrella syndrome doesn't last too long when the system is well taken care of. With the list above in mind we can see what one needs to do to help their Zoanthus to get it's natural appearance faster.
    Some times just giving it a bit more water flow is all the polyps need to come back to it's natural appearance. or perhaps adjusting the temperature.

    I've never seen a polyp perish because of umbrella syndrome and they normally recover from it in a couple of days or so. Normally it happens in one or two polyps, not the whole colony.


    Grandis.
    "
    https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/umbrella-syndrome-possible-causes.266428/


    Grandis.
     
  11. ReeferAdrian

    ReeferAdrian Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi Grandis,

    Yes i have been doing a few other checks on the items you have mentioned and still unable to certify what went wrong. I might have moved the light lower a bit but later changed it back to the original, but to no avail. The whole colony now melted unfortunately. My concern now is preventing the same from happening to others. It could be, internal pathogens, I am not quite sure, since it should only be lasting for a few days and a few polyp at a time, but its the other way round for mine, lasted for 2.5 weeks or so, and whole colony at a time. It also could be that that certain morph is not tolerant of my system? I do have frags from the mother colony that experienced the same umbrella effect, but took them longer to melt.
     
  12. david_ma

    david_ma Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    8
    Zoas can be confusing. I found it that once they do that, it usually means they're going downhill. I'd say place them in sand bed, let them recover, then move up in about 2 weeks. Done that once and actually worked.
     
  13. ReeferAdrian

    ReeferAdrian Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sure David. I have some mohawks that had the same issue on some poly, moved them down to the sandbed and it did help. While I am still puzzled as to why the colony turned umbrellas :(
     
  14. Ranjib

    Ranjib Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    1,888
    how you feed them? tried spot feeding?
     
  15. ReeferAdrian

    ReeferAdrian Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ranjib, yes have tried that as well but to no avail. it is not responding to even touches. (normally they will retract when you touch but not with the colony that was affected)
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

Loading...