Using Bleach (NaClO) in a reef tank

[edosan]

I have read that some of you guys @twilliard (among others) are starting to test bleach in a reef tank. (Dinos)

Possible velvet irradication. Many warnings inside.

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php...t-irradication.-Many-warnings-inside..260088/

I 'd like to experiment myself and its been like 2 months testing with bleach with success, but not in a cientific way. (I have 5 tanks, so I have test it in most of them, even with tridacnas, shrimps and delicate sps corals, not to mention several fishes)

Success = No animals or corals have died due this. (few frags are RIP tho, to get the right dose)

I do belive bleach can be benefical in a reef tank for several reasons if you dose the right way. So far so good, Bleach make ORP go up, fast, so is easy to check when the bleach (Edit: WHen oxidants are present in your reef) is active in your tank, also SPS response is fast, with slime.

So basically the idea of this post, is to share experiences about it, I know 99% of reefers will think: Bleach? are you nuts? but in 2 months I have see nothing but good things (Clear water, lower ich incidence - still there but every week I see less whitespots, higher ORP, better coral grow specially Milleporas!), but might be something else, do not want to jjump into conclusions yet.

I do not want to share dosage yet, since it can be very dangerous. But I have test this in my DT (Check my signature) and everything is thriving. So, May I ask, for those testing Bleach also your experiences?

(sorry for my bad english, a bit rusted)

 

[nervousmonkey]

I have not tested bleach but would love to know how. would you mind sending me a PM with dosage? does it kill cyano and what ORP readings do you get?

 

[edosan]

I have not tested bleach but would love to know how. would you mind sending me a PM with dosage? does it kill cyano and what ORP readings do you get?

Normaly I have 340 to 380 ORP readings range, I do not have Cyano or Dynos (never have, I believe thanks to benefical bacteria I use) but I do manage Ich and that was my main reason to start dosing and testing.
Regarding dosage I will tell later on, but a huge DISCLAIMER: is just my experience and by no means I believe any other reef tank will have a similar one, you can KILL your reef if you not doing this right.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not surprised it raises ORP, but whether that is desirable or not is another question.

 

[edosan]

[emoji106]Not saying is good in general nor desirable, is just an observation that you can maybe monitor active bleach with orp measures.

 

[revhtree]

Very interesting?

What type of bleach and how much are you dosing?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

[emoji106]Not saying is good in general nor desirable, is just an observation that you can maybe monitor active bleach with orp measures.

I agree you can keep from redosing before it drops, but I wouldn't be sure the elevated ORP means bleach (hypochlorite) is present. It is known that hypochlorite reacts with bromide in salt solutions to form bromate, which itself is high oxidizing (raises ORP) and also has well established toxicity in marine systems:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php#15

Toxicity of Ozone Produced Oxidants (OPOs)

Two sorts of toxicity studies of ozone produced oxidants (OPOs, such as bromate, hypobromous acid, etc.) are relevant to reef aquarists. The first involves the testing of seawater that has been exposed to ozone, and the second involves the testing of specific compounds dissolved in seawater that are known to form when using ozone. Most of the OPOs are unstable, and so have few or no specific toxicity studies. Bromate (BrO3-) is the notable exception, and its toxicity is examined in the next section.

Much of the study of OPOs stems from applications slightly different from aquaria, and such studies must be viewed in that light. Often they relate to aquaculture facilities, where ozone is used at high doses to sterilize the water. Other studies are done on the disinfection of wastewater using ozone, another high dose application. Bear in mind that OPOs in reef aquarium applications will be at a maximum of about 0.3 ppm in typical reaction chambers, and will be lower (hopefully, much lower) once the water passes over activated carbon (assuming it does) and finally enters the aquarium. The concentration of OPO is always given in terms of the weight of ozone that produces that amount of oxidant.

In terms of the toxicity of ozonated seawater itself, one group concluded that fish were relatively insensitive to OPOs:

"Ozonation of estuarine or marine waters can produce significant amount of bromate…Toxicity studies showed that the concentrations of bromate which theoretically could be formed in an ozonated discharge were not toxic to the early life stages of striped bass (Morone saxatilis) and juvenile spot (Leiostomus xanthurus)."50

Larvae are, in general, more sensitive to OPOs than are eggs,51 adults or juveniles.52 Japanese flounder eggs were found to be impacted by OPOs to the extent that 50% did not hatch after one minute of exposure to 2.2 ppm OPO. Larvae aged 3-15 days were killed to the extent of 50% in 24 hours at 0.02-0.05 ppm OPO. Larvae aged 44 days were killed to the extent of 50% in 24 hours at 0.15 ppm OPO. In this case, the larvae were shown to have damage to their branchial tissues.53

The eggs and larvae of Japanese whiting (Silago japonica) also have been tested for toxicity by OPOs. In this case, half of the eggs and larvae died in about 24 hours when exposed to 0.18 and 0.23 ppm OPOs, respectively.54

Certain microalgae are also relatively insensitive to OPOs (perhaps to the disappointment of many aquarists). The growth of the microalgae Tetraselmis chuii was found to be unaffected at levels up to 0.7 ppm.55 At 1 ppm, growth was impacted negatively.

Toxicity tests of OPOs on shrimp show them to be less sensitive than fish. Penaeus chinensis and Paralichthys olivaceus were found to live up to 48 hours at OPO concentrations of more than 1 ppm, while ******* halibut (fish) in the same study lived only three hours at 1 ppm and 48 hours at 0.13 ppm.56

As for other organisms, the damage to the American oyster (Crassostrea virginica) by OPOs varied with their age. Even for adults, fecal matter accumulation was reduced at OPO levels as low as 0.05 ppm.57

The effect of OPOs on rotifers (Brachionus plicatilis) has also been determined.58 No effect on survival was seen at less than 0.22 ppm OPO, but effects became significant above that level. The authors point out that bacteria and other pathogens can be killed at that level, so rotifer cultures can be used with that amount of continuous ozone to reduce bacterial contamination.

Are these levels of OPO toxicity important to reef aquarists? That is difficult to answer without knowing the levels that are attained in reef aquaria. In a typical ozone application in reef aquaria that might produce 0.1-0.3 ppm OPO in a reaction chamber, the levels are quite significant compared to potential toxicity to fish larvae and other organisms at as little as 0.02-0.05 ppm. After passing the reactor's effluent over activated carbon, the OPO concentrations should be much lower, but exactly how low is unclear and will vary considerably in different setups.

 

[edosan]

Very interesting?

What type of bleach and how much are you dosing?

I also do triton test regularly, i started 2 months ago, last test was 1 week ago and everything was fine.

I start on a test tank, with fishes and softies and all good, now been 2 months dosing my dt 1ml of clorox (5%) twice a week for 500 liters of water, so in my dt I dose 2ml. All good so far.

My orp goes 20 to 30 point up for every 1 ml of bleach, and stay up like 30 minutes and then goes down again to normal . (some days took more to get back)
Less algae in the glass for sure.

My dt is sps mainly. My goal is reduce ich, ich is present in my tank but is soft ich strain, 1 year and no ich casualties. But I have watch good things with bleach, but not 100% sure is because of it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I also do triton test regularly, i started 2 months ago, last test was 1 week ago and everything was fine.
.

FYI, Triton wouldn't detect any of the issues related to adding bleach. ClO- looks identical to chloride. Bromate looks identical to bromide. Etc.

 

[edosan]

Just came back to home from the office, I dose this morning 2ml, orp is good, corals al fine, everything looks happy.

Hope others will share too

 

[DanP-SD]

Following.

It would be interesting to see data on whether there's an overlap between the low end of the therapeutic range for ich treatment and the safe dosage for beneficial reef inhabitants. Intuitively, it seems like you can keep the concentration safe and treat for cyano but to meaningfully impact a crypto strain, I would expect that you'd have to dose at a concentration that will kill all your pods, harm your bacterial colonies and maybe hurt larger organisms like corals and fish.

 

[kevinn9369]

Following

 

[GEP0934]

I wash my filter socks in bleach and never had an issue. I typically never wait once they are clean to put in the tank

 

[MattL22]

Interesting I know Paul b used to add it now b4 adding to tank if I remember correctly

 

[RamsReef]

I use bleach to cleanse my eyes after watching the news.

 

[edosan]

I use bleach to cleanse my eyes after watching the news.

Jaja I wonder what else do you clean with bleach after watching or doing dirty stuff [emoji23]

 

[edosan]

Following.

It would be interesting to see data on whether there's an overlap between the low end of the therapeutic range for ich treatment and the safe dosage for beneficial reef inhabitants. Intuitively, it seems like you can keep the concentration safe and treat for cyano but to meaningfully impact a crypto strain, I would expect that you'd have to dose at a concentration that will kill all your pods, harm your bacterial colonies and maybe hurt larger organisms like corals and fish.

I Agree, my bet is OPOs tox will afect the "swimming" stage (I dose just when the lights come on or off, it suppose to be the more active swimming stage) enough to manage the concentration to the low end, by no means erradicate. But I do not have the discipline to keep track of data an all. Too lazy..I will keep dosing 2 ml twice per week. I know I am playing with fire here, but hey, fire change us as species... Jaja [emoji6]

 

[BAngieB]

I wash my filter socks in bleach, rinse and let air dry before putting them in my sump so I suppose I am inadvertently dosing bleach with no adverse affects. I always wondered about this so I'm glad to see this post. BTW; what does ORP stand for?

 

[edosan]

I do bleach my filter socks since day one, no air dry, just a quick cleaning on tap water and to the reef (my check is my nose jaja if smell Bleach more tap water...). I also use to have a selfmade aiptasia wand, 12v 2amp (high voltage, producing Cl gas and mix that with sea water and you have Bleach on the graphite side) with no problems at all. That make me start thinking about it.
I do not redose tho until my ORP (@BAngieB ORP stands for Oxidation-Reduction Potential, google it lots of info) is back to normal range.
When I started dosing I make it with just a few drops, until I get to the levels I have now, and yes, In one of my test tanks with frags I did make more dosing, and bleach a few frags, so that is why I do not dose more than 1ml per 500lt, or 1ml per 132Gal).

Also I do not remove active carbon nor turn off skimmer or uv, everything runs normal.

@Randy Holmes-Farley thanks a lot for your input, is very important to me! I have learn a lot reading your articles.

I know I am not discovering fire, and probably several reefers have try and test this already, please share

 

[edosan]

For those who thing I have a simple tank, here is a few Pic of my DT, those pictures where taken a few weeks ago, dosing where on:











More pictures? check my signature, page 4
(One year old tank)