UV sterilizer

[Saltwater_hobbiest]

I have a AIO water box 50.3 and I have had a hippo tang in there for 2 years and she has been pest free but I want to have the fish for a long time and think I should get a UV sterilizer to stay safe. What would you recommend to fit in my back chamber of the AIO? Yes I am upgrading when the hippo tang gets bigger!

 

[Freenow54]

I have a AIO water box 50.3 and I have had a hippo tang in there for 2 years and she has been pest free but I want to have the fish for a long time and think I should get a UV sterilizer to stay safe. What would you recommend to fit in my back chamber of the AIO? Yes I am upgrading when the hippo tang gets bigger!

I really dont want to get involved in this because of vultures just waiting to pounce . Do your homework like I did . learn about the term Dose . Learn about the proper bulb needed . Decide what you want to treat to achieve the proper dose . There is no straight answer. Once you figure it all out you wont need advice . The bulb should be rated as UV-C

 

[BryanM]

I have a AIO water box 50.3 and I have had a hippo tang in there for 2 years and she has been pest free but I want to have the fish for a long time and think I should get a UV sterilizer to stay safe. What would you recommend to fit in my back chamber of the AIO? Yes I am upgrading when the hippo tang gets bigger!

That's a pretty tall ask for a an AIO when ideally it would need its own separate pump as you want the flow through the UV on the slower side.

I say upgrade now :)

 

[Privateye]

I'd be happy to help you size something, with the exception of in-tank units. Most of the submersible UV sterilizers are only good for improving water clarity. If you're looking to size it to combat some of the more-common diseases we see in the hobby, then you'll likely need something too large to physically fit in the tank.

This would need to be plumbed externally. If that sounds like an okay option to you, then I mostly need to know which diseases you're hoping to prevent. That will determine the UV dose needed. Cryptocaryon (marine ich) is kind of a tough one. You'll need a large UV to prevent it. Marine velvet is much easier to sterilize though.

I can assume your UV transmittance (typically fine for saltwater) and I can tell you what flow rate you need to run the sterilizer at. If you need to use a specific flow rate, that may limit the options.

 

[Freenow54]

I'd be happy to help you size something, with the exception of in-tank units. Most of the submersible UV sterilizers are only good for improving water clarity. If you're looking to size it to combat some of the more-common diseases we see in the hobby, then you'll likely need something too large to physically fit in the tank.

This would need to be plumbed externally. If that sounds like an okay option to you, then I mostly need to know which diseases you're hoping to prevent. That will determine the UV dose needed. Cryptocaryon (marine ich) is kind of a tough one. You'll need a large UV to prevent it. Marine velvet is much easier to sterilize though.

I can assume your UV transmittance (typically fine for saltwater) and I can tell you what flow rate you need to run the sterilizer at. If you need to use a specific flow rate, that may limit the options.

This is why I said what I said the flow rate is determined as to the bulb or as some refer to it the Filter rating and volume of the filter to set the flow to determine the dose. As to ich I have read over and over it can only be controlled not eliminated . This is why I said they should learn on their own . But since you seem determined I will bow out and they will learn nothing at all and blame you

 

[Privateye]

This is why I said what I said the flow rate is determined as to the bulb or as some refer to it the Filter rating and volume of the filter to set the flow to determine the dose. As to ich I have read over and over it can only be controlled not eliminated . This is why I said they should learn on their own . But since you seem determined I will bow out and they will learn nothing at all and blame you

No problem, I did this for years when I worked for a UV manufacturer. BRS sometimes passed their customers to me for assistance.

Marine Ich can certainly be eliminated, just like freshwater Ich. The issue is the published dose required is 280 mJ/cm2, which is higher than most manufacturers rate their units for. I've sized such units before but it gets trickier. Those extra-label uses require some tables that manufacturers don't publish (it's not a linear trend). Because I'm not in that industry anymore I don't have access to those brand-specific tools. A unit for that will cost over $1,000 for sure, and a chiller may be required since it's so oversized. Marine velvet only takes 105 mJ/cm2 as I recall so that's more-feasible.

They're welcome to learn as much as they want to, or just get my input, and they can blame me. I haven't had anyone blame me for an improperly-sized UV before.

No harm in talking directly to some UV manufacturers though. They'd be the ones selling the product, and they have the ability to do this sizing too. Just make sure you get a rep who knows what they're doing. You don't want someone who just shoots from the hip - you want them to take some time and plug some numbers into some spreadsheets.

 

[Freenow54]

No problem, I did this for years when I worked for a UV manufacturer. BRS sometimes passed their customers to me for assistance.

Marine Ich can certainly be eliminated, just like freshwater Ich. The issue is the published dose required is 280 mJ/cm2, which is higher than most manufacturers rate their units for. I've sized such units before but it gets trickier. Those extra-label uses require some tables that manufacturers don't publish (it's not a linear trend). Because I'm not in that industry anymore I don't have access to those brand-specific tools. A unit for that will cost over $1,000 for sure, and a chiller may be required since it's so oversized. Marine velvet only takes 105 mJ/cm2 as I recall so that's more-feasible.

They're welcome to learn as much as they want to, or just get my input, and they can blame me. I haven't had anyone blame me for an improperly-sized UV before.

No harm in talking directly to some UV manufacturers though. They'd be the ones selling the product, and they have the ability to do this sizing too. Just make sure you get a rep who knows what they're doing. You don't want someone who just shoots from the hip - you want them to take some time and plug some numbers into some spreadsheets.

Now I don't know about the ICH thing since dozens of members here don't agree with you

 

[vlangel]

I have a AIO water box 50.3 and I have had a hippo tang in there for 2 years and she has been pest free but I want to have the fish for a long time and think I should get a UV sterilizer to stay safe. What would you recommend to fit in my back chamber of the AIO? Yes I am upgrading when the hippo tang gets bigger!

This might be more expensive and more complicated than you want to go at this point, but you could add a canister filter and plumb the UV in the output line. If the canister is empty and doesn't have media, or only has rubble rock the maintenance of it is minimal. My Oase BioMaster can have the flow safely reduced to 50% by partially closing a valve. That way the UV can be used for both algae or pathogen control depending on the flow rate. My 75g has a canister filter with a UV sterilizer and it works well.

In addition to this I QT new fish to observe several weeks before adding them to my display. Not fool proof but definitely helps minimize disease risks.

 

[exnisstech]

I don't feel UV is needed to keep fish healthy. I have quit a few fish across 4 tanks including 11 tangs, 9 in one tank and two in another. 3 yellows were added two years ago the rest longer than 3 years with my oldest 10 years. I've never seen white spots on any.
I think you would be better off with a strict QT protocol as Jay H recommends rather than depending on UV to prevent disease. JMO
Or you could roll the dice and try to source healthy fish and observe for an extended period in a separate tank like I do but my method is not recommended as a dependable method to prevent disease by the experts.

PS Forgot to state have I never used UV as disease preventative so maybe it can be useful, I don't know.

 

[Privateye]

Now I don't know about the ICH thing since dozens of members here don't agree with you

Haha, then that just means this is an online forum! I think the two of us may have even discussed this before.

Which sources would you trust?

BRS says you can "rid" your tank of it

Marine Depot says so too (via BRS, and they cited papers from one of my former professors)

Tropical Fish Hobbyist talks about eliminating it

This paper uses the term "cure"

This paper says "killed completely" a lot

I'm not at home so I can't quote the Noga book now, but I can later if you like. I can also pull up many more articles - this was just a quick search.

Even AI gets it right and says it can be completely eliminated:

I realize that there are people who still don't believe any of this, but they're on a shrinking island by themselves. We have multiple people on this forum who regularly help other members eliminate cryptocaryon. I've never heard a fish veterinarian say that it can't be eliminated, but every one I've spoken to (which, honestly, is only 4-5) agrees that it can be.

If you poke around for articles from reputable sources, I think you'll change your mind over time. I'm eager to read anything reputable that says otherwise though. Not a forum post, or what some guy said in a fish store, but something published.

 

[Freenow54]

Haha, then that just means this is an online forum! I think the two of us may have even discussed this before.

Which sources would you trust?

BRS says you can "rid" your tank of it

Marine Depot says so too (via BRS, and they cited papers from one of my former professors)

Tropical Fish Hobbyist talks about eliminating it

This paper uses the term "cure"

This paper says "killed completely" a lot

I'm not at home so I can't quote the Noga book now, but I can later if you like. I can also pull up many more articles - this was just a quick search.

Even AI gets it right and says it can be completely eliminated:

I realize that there are people who still don't believe any of this, but they're on a shrinking island by themselves. We have multiple people on this forum who regularly help other members eliminate cryptocaryon. I've never heard a fish veterinarian say that it can't be eliminated, but every one I've spoken to (which, honestly, is only 4-5) agrees that it can be.

If you poke around for articles from reputable sources, I think you'll change your mind over time. I'm eager to read anything reputable that says otherwise though. Not a forum post, or what some guy said in a fish store, but something published.

Would not Mind the sources to read. If I ever Obviously hope not , I can prove it to myself . But certainly open to learning. Especially the proper settings . I don't remember ever speaking to this with anyone before

Regards : Wally

 

[Freenow54]

In reply I certainly don't trust AI for other Proven Reasons

 

[winxp_man]

I don't feel UV is needed to keep fish healthy. I have quit a few fish across 4 tanks including 11 tangs, 9 in one tank and two in another. 3 yellows were added two years ago the rest longer than 3 years with my oldest 10 years. I've never seen white spots on any.
I think you would be better off with a strict QT protocol as Jay H recommends rather than depending on UV to prevent disease. JMO
Or you could roll the dice and try to source healthy fish and observe for an extended period in a separate tank like I do but my method is not recommended as a dependable method to prevent disease by the experts.

PS Forgot to state have I never used UV as disease preventative so maybe it can be useful, I don't know.

This right here. I only use UV to keep algae at bay. Strict QT will keep fish healthy and good proper food without fillers if dry is also being fed to the fish.

My 300 build is a testament to this post. No ich, velvet, brook. Fish are disease free.

 

[Freenow54]

I am going to post a problem I now have that I cannot figure out how it started , and maybe premature but don't think a UV can help with this . AIPTASIA

 

[Freenow54]

Would not Mind the sources to read. If I ever Obviously hope not , I can prove it to myself . But certainly open to learning. Especially the proper settings . I don't remember ever speaking to this with anyone before

Regards : Wally

So not to be rude but waiting for the links or sources

 

[Privateye]

So not to be rude but waiting for the links or sources

This one has good general info, but the treatment methods are focused on open-water mariculture.

This one experimentally confirmed the 280 mJ/cm2 UV dose (well, they got 269-288 mJ/cm2):

"At 2400 μWs/cm2 UV intensity, the theronts survival rate decreased from 100% at 112 s to 0% at 122 s (Table 1), which corresponds to 2.69 × 10^5 and 2.88× 10^5 μWs/cm2 doses. At 2.69 × 10^5μWs/cm2 UV intensity, theronts swimming gradually slowed and finally stopped. Moreover, the theronts gradually swelled and some deep-coloured substances gathered inside the swollen cells (Fig. 2B), whose membranes ruptured, passively releasing efflux from the cytoplasm."

 

[Freenow54]

This one has good general info, but the treatment methods are focused on open-water mariculture.

This one experimentally confirmed the 280 mJ/cm2 UV dose (well, they got 269-288 mJ/cm2):

"At 2400 μWs/cm2 UV intensity, the theronts survival rate decreased from 100% at 112 s to 0% at 122 s (Table 1), which corresponds to 2.69 × 10^5 and 2.88× 10^5 μWs/cm2 doses. At 2.69 × 10^5μWs/cm2 UV intensity, theronts swimming gradually slowed and finally stopped. Moreover, the theronts gradually swelled and some deep-coloured substances gathered inside the swollen cells (Fig. 2B), whose membranes ruptured, passively releasing efflux from the cytoplasm."

Odd that I was not notified about this. I found it surfing in the new posts section. Thanks for your time