Water changes.. I know not again?!

[p1u5h13r4m24]

Welcome to the no water change side. lol I’m jk but this same thing happened to me - water change caused me so many issues

I used to do the no water changes, but every now and than I’d get issues so I just went back to weekly water changes. No water changes are great for stability, not great for DOC. I will find my happy medium

 

[BryanM]

Have you started water changes again now?

My initial thought was that there was something wrong with your source water for the water changes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I just want to be clear I am not having any current issues the tank is back to thriving. I’m really just looking at some insight as to what could have been depleted. Again I also dose AFR and ICP came back perfect I don’t believe this was a nutrient or element issue

what does a perfect icp mean with respect to dino requirements? I certainly do not know, and icp is a faulty way to gauge bioavailability anyway since it says nothing about chemical form.

Such a method would say that cyanide, ammonia, and nitrogen gas from the air are all equally suitable as a way to gauge bioavailability of N.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

Have you started water changes again now?

My initial thought was that there was something wrong with your source water for the water changes.

I have not started them again. It’s only been about 2 weeks since I stopped. But when I checked tds on my rodi I had about 003 ppm. I still swapped the filters to be safe lol. And I double checked my calibration on everything, but again my ICP came back almost perfect

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

what does a perfect icp mean with respect to dino requirements? I certainly do not know, and icp is a faulty way to gauge bioavailability anyway since it says nothing about chemical form.

Such a method would say that cyanide, ammonia, and nitrogen gas from the air are all equally suitable as a way to gauge bioavailability of N.

That’s fair and I mean the elements on the icp Results were near perfect with the suggested values. I assume my issues with dinos and cyano were a matter of a new tank and new acrylic frag racks that were not coated in any forms of competing life. As well slightly elevated silicon which I believe was shown on the ICP

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

That’s fair and I mean the elements on the icp Results were near perfect with the suggested values. I assume my issues with dinos and cyano were a matter of a new tank and new acrylic frag racks that were not coated in any forms of competing life. As well slightly elevated silicon which I believe was shown on the ICP

An also I get your point and that is sort of what I’m suggesting. There’s something that most people aren’t testing for. My theory is it’s biological as the water changes theoretically would have diluted anything else. Again I’m no chemist ;)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What type of icp was perfect? Icp -MS or ICP-AES?

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

What type of icp was perfect? Icp -MS or ICP-AES?

Oes

 

[BryanM]

I have not started them again. It’s only been about 2 weeks since I stopped. But when I checked tds on my rodi I had about 003 ppm. I still swapped the filters to be safe lol. And I double checked my calibration on everything, but again my ICP came back almost perfect

3 tds is too high for me and most of us. 2 is change stuff now, 0 obviously ideal.

Since we don't know what that 3tds is, and you were having issues, I'm still concerned here for that. That *seems* to be the outlier.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Oes

Then it is unsuitable for a large number of trace elements at natural levels. It likely reads zero for a bunch of important ones, such as iron, manganese, vanadium, etc.

Thus, I think a trace element is a viable explanation.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

3 tds is too high for me and most of us. 2 is change stuff now, 0 obviously ideal.

Since we don't know what that 3tds is, and you were having issues, I'm still concerned here for that. That *seems* to be the outlier.

Maybe, typically haven’t changed them until 5-6, and also my last 3-4 water changes were 0tds since I changed filters. The 003
Would have been the initial addition of the new frag system. I also ran polyfilter and GAC my first two days of th new tank running just incase the pipes or acrylic leaked anything.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

Then it is unsuitable for a large number of trace elements at natural levels. It likely reads zero for a bunch of important ones, such as iron, manganese, vanadium, etc.

Thus, I think a trace element is a viable explanation.

Correct, I do also dose AFR daily. But I will try a ms for a piece of mind. But if it’s traces wouldn’t they be replenished by water changes. The issues resolved when I stopped doing wc

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Correct, I do also dose AFR daily. But I will try a ms for a piece of mind. But if it’s traces wouldn’t they be replenished by water changes. The issues resolved when I stopped doing wc

The hypothesis that has been around for decades to explain why water changes help dinos is that it is adding a trace element that is otherwise limiting dino growth.

Stopping the water change then begins
limiting dinos again.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

The hypothesis that has been around for decades to explain why water changes help dinos is that it is adding a trace element that is otherwise limiting dino growth.

Stopping the water change then begins
limiting dinos again.

Yes I understand, however the dinos had been gone for about a month already when I started seeing the issues in the corals. In other words I stopped doing the water changes after the dinos already were gone. However I did have red cyano when I decided to stop Doing the water changes. I actually still have some of it but it’s been depleting. I believe in another week it will be gone

 

[Dogeatbird]

One summer, as a kid, I help my grandfather de-rock, and plow a pasture. Grandpa wanted more tillable acres. Next summer, crops in and Grandpa is gripping about have to spray a herbicide.

As I told my grandpa sometimes there is a simple reason. You now are caring about more land. In this case, why overlook what is simply unclaimed real estate.(frag-system) Regardless of being linked, a vast new territory was created. Just like any expansion, neighbors fight over whose dog **** in which lawn.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

One summer, as a kid, I help my grandfather de-rock, and plow a pasture. Grandpa wanted more tillable acres. Next summer, crops in and Grandpa is gripping about have to spray a herbicide.

As I told my grandpa sometimes there is a simple reason. You now are caring about more land. In this case, why overlook what is simply unclaimed real estate.(frag-system) Regardless of being linked, a vast new territory was created. Just like any expansion, neighbors fight over whose dog **** in which lawn.

lol I appreciate your input but I’ll be honest. I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply. I am aware of the new real estate. It has crossed my mind that it’s simply just a factor of imbalances and the water changes weren’t giving it time to balance. But what in the water column wasn’t balancing?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes I understand, however the dinos had been gone for about a month already when I started seeing the issues in the corals. In other words I stopped doing the water changes after the dinos already were gone. However I did have red cyano when I decided to stop Doing the water changes. I actually still have some of it but it’s been depleting. I believe in another week it will be gone

You stated this:

However, recently I plumbed a 60gallon frag tank to my 120g system. To my surprise I still got the dinos and cyano outbreaks despite keeping elevated nutrients. I did my normal 10% water changes, but corals started dying. I doubled down on water changes and sent in an ICP. Things got worse when I ramped up water changes. ICP came back perfect… I stopped water changes for 2 weeks and the tank balanced and started thriving again.

Which suggested that water changes were making things worse. I explained a possible reason why: trace elements in the water changes boosting the dinos.

 

[dvgyfresh]

I used to do the no water changes, but every now and than I’d get issues so I just went back to weekly water changes. No water changes are great for stability, not great for DOC. I will find my happy medium

DOC is consumed by sponges so maybe more sponges? Look into the cryptic zone in reef tanks

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

You stated this:

However, recently I plumbed a 60gallon frag tank to my 120g system. To my surprise I still got the dinos and cyano outbreaks despite keeping elevated nutrients. I did my normal 10% water changes, but corals started dying. I doubled down on water changes and sent in an ICP. Things got worse when I ramped up water changes. ICP came back perfect… I stopped water changes for 2 weeks and the tank balanced and started thriving again.

Which suggested that water changes were making things worse. I explained a possible reason why: trace elements in the water changes boosting the dinos.

My apologies for the confusion. I stated that as a short summary to say that even though I still had the ugly stages I was able to maintain nutrients. It was my way of saying that lower nutrients wasn’t the issue.

A more in depth timeline is . Plumbed the new frag tank and it went live in the first week of August.
gha showed up for about a week or two. Than dinos outbreak for about 2 weeks. Than battled cyano for the entire month of September.doubled down on wc the last week of September. Noticed some losses first week of October and decided to stop water changes. Corals are now thriving and cyano has been reduced by about 70%

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

DOC is consumed by sponges so maybe more sponges? Look into the cryptic zone in reef tanks

I like sponges, but sadly, there’s no evidence that they have a significant effect on doc in a typical reef tank.