We finally tested the Black Box LED... Compare notes? | BRStv Investigates

[Wh00pS32]

This is the thread that just keeps on giving!

@Ryanbrs it doesn't matter what you say, how you say it or anything else. The black box users will defend their purchase to the end. It's basic human psychology. People take it personal when anyone sheds negative light (no pun intended) on an item they've purchased.

It reminds me so much of my other hobby and that forum: Golf. The arguments in that world are unreal to listen to.

The exact same can be said of prople buying high end lighting, they have to justify the purchase to themselves and will defend it no matter what.
I don't have a dog in the fight though, i use midrange
If you wanna see arguaments, get on the phone forums and see the Ios V Android scraps, it's hilarious and i go there just to read the comments.

 

[Even Further]

Can we please drop the UL thing....it's a paid certification, and I'd put more weight in a CE or ISO certification on any item over UL.

UL also writes safety standards, they were the early pioneer. The 3rd party test and cert does not have to be done by UL, there's other testing houses out there. A company can self certify CE without 3rd party testing. Literally a stuffed animal can have a CE mark.

Some people care, some don't. But either way R2R community should be free to discuss.

 

[rtparty]

UL also writes safety standards, they were the early pioneer. The 3rd party test and cert does not have to be done by UL, there's other testing houses out there. A company can self certify CE without 3rd party testing. Literally a stuffed animal can have a CE mark.

Some people care, some don't. But either way R2R community should be free to discuss.

The scarier part is that anyone can slap a CE mark on their product and there is no governing body to stop them. China certainly won't hold their own people/companies liable.

Yet, some want to put more faith in CE? It just doesn't make sense to me.

(I'm not arguing that UL is better than CE but at least you can verify that someone is UL certified)

 

[Amoo]

I'm willing to bet almost nobody in this entire thread has bothered to check all of the certifications on every single electronic device in their tanks until randy brought this point up....

Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll hear from "that one guy"

 

[DancingShark]

I wasn't going to comment in this thread anymore but I had to say this. This has very little to do about the lighting issue at hand. Last year I got the idea of starting a saltwater fish tank. Brstv YouTube channel was one of my go to place for info.

I saw @Ryanbrs go from a very stiff uncomfortable guy on camera to a relax, tanned, fluently spoken guy. I mean the difference is amazing if you look at the videos back too back. Their 52 weeks reefing with the 160g clown tank was the best way for me to learn about plumbing, reef chemistry, skimmers(never seen one before then) and so much more.

Yes I know, I saw all the stuff they try to sell to you in the process but it's a business. Won't you do the same. That will always bring a question of conflict of interest that people will bring up in order to argue against something they don't agree with. I saw everything they used and end up buying around $800 worth of stuff from them but it was only the essentials. At the end of January this year very unsure and nervously I was pumping rodi water into a 125g with only the knowledge I obtained from channels like theirs.

I don't think I would have been reefing today if it wasn't for the help of brstv and multiple YouTube channels. For that @Ryanbrs I sincerely thank you and you're team.
Big thank you to the reef2reef community.

At the end of the day we are all here because of one shared love. And what this hobby has though me is that no two tanks are the same.

 

[rtparty]

I'm willing to bet almost nobody in this entire thread has bothered to check all of the certifications on every single electronic device in their tanks until randy brought this point up....

Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll hear from "that one guy"

Buy from reputable companies and you don't have to check certification on every device...[emoji106]

 

[Amoo]

Buy from reputable companies and you don't have to check certification on every device...[emoji106]

Honestly, It's my money, I'll spend it how I wish. I do tend to buy from reputable companies, but going on and on and on and on endlessly about this just seems rather silly. It's a free forum though, you do you...[emoji106]

 

[five.five-six]

The exact same can be said of prople buying high end lighting, they have to justify the purchase to themselves and will defend it no matter what.
I don't have a dog in the fight though, i use midrange
If you wanna see arguaments, get on the phone forums and see the Ios V Android scraps, it's hilarious and i go there just to read the comments.

No dog in this fight either, I run halides.

That said, it mystifies me that there is not a higher quality $200-300/fixture solution. It really wouldn't take that much, on the manufacturing end, to improve the quality of a black box solution to meet or exceed the quality and output of a radion.

 

[rtparty]

No dog in this fight either, I run halides.

That said, it mystifies me that there is not a higher quality $200-300/fixture solution. It really wouldn't take that much, on the manufacturing end, to improve the quality of a black box solution to meet or exceed the quality and output of a radion.

According to most in here, that is where Reefbreeders and SB fit in. If that's the case, I can see why they sell so well.

What's really cool is that Ryan has even said he is willing to run/test the lights if the companies want to send them in. If I'm Reefbreeders or SB, I would jump all over that! The company gets basically free advertisement, far better testing than most lighting companies currently have and possibly a business relationship with increased sales.

As a community, that benefits all of us as well. Win win win in my book and I would love to see BRS test the mid-range LED game. Although some in here can't see it, BRS has always come across as unbiased and fair in all their reviews. At least to me. I also respect the hell out of them for only wanting to carry stuff they would actually use and recommend personally.

 

[rtparty]

Honestly, It's my money, I'll spend it how I wish. I do tend to buy from reputable companies, but going on and on and on and on endlessly about this just seems rather silly. It's a free forum though, you do you...[emoji106]

I didn't tell you how to spend your money. I just pointed out that if someone buys from reputable sources, they don't have to check for certification on everything.

I know that's hard to see for some

 

[Amoo]

I didn't tell you how to spend your money. I just pointed out that if someone buys from reputable sources, they don't have to check for certification on everything.

I know that's hard to see for some

I'm not going to sit here and go back and forth with you about this, I'd rather actually talk lights with @randyBRS and others in this thread, I'm just pointing out the horse died a long time ago.

 

[Patrick.S]

I'm wondering if anybody has ever tried to rig up a diffuser on a BB light? Seems like it would would help even out the spread, while lowering par, most people could handle much lower par coming out of these lights.

 

[rtparty]

I'm wondering if anybody has ever tried to rig up a diffuser on a BB light? Seems like it would would help even out the spread, while lowering par, most people could handle much lower par coming out of these lights.

There is a gentleman on the other big forum that says he has been retrofitting the BB LEDs with diffusers. He just uses velcro to attach them. Says it works quite well

 

[wooglins]

According to most in here, that is where Reefbreeders and SB fit in. If that's the case, I can see why they sell so well.

What's really cool is that Ryan has even said he is willing to run/test the lights if the companies want to send them in. If I'm Reefbreeders or SB, I would jump all over that! The company gets basically free advertisement, far better testing than most lighting companies currently have and possibly a business relationship with increased sales.

As a community, that benefits all of us as well. Win win win in my book and I would love to see BRS test the mid-range LED game. Although some in here can't see it, BRS has always come across as unbiased and fair in all their reviews. At least to me. I also respect the hell out of them for only wanting to carry stuff they would actually use and recommend personally.

I believe earlier in this thread you will see that SB Reef met with BRS at Macna. SB Reef is a reputable company with quite a network of authorized resellers. I have a set and the support they offer is crazy good. Jumped ship from the Halide/T5 game about four years ago and moved to LED. Why? It was not because LED was cool, or any bandwagon reason. I just wanted to try a lower heat option that would save me money on bulbs. If XM10k bulbs, and the Actinic T5's that went with them were not costing me so much per year in replacement I would have never considered switching.

Fast forward four years later and my tank is thriving. My first set did well and I noticed zero drop-off in coral growth, health, negative algae growth etc. Now the jump to the SB Reef product has been significant. Growth is improved, aquarium looks gorgeous, and there is light spectrum in the mix that is unavailable from anyone at any price point in an LED fixture from what I understand.

I will be giving the new ultra a spin in the next few weeks as soon as it arrives and should be able to speak the performance.

 

[MorganAtlanta]

No dog in this fight either, I run halides.

That said, it mystifies me that there is not a higher quality $200-300/fixture solution. It really wouldn't take that much, on the manufacturing end, to improve the quality of a black box solution to meet or exceed the quality and output of a radion.

Take a look at DSuny lights on eBay. They seem to correct most every issue mentioned here related to the black boxes. Finned aluminum heatsink, secondary reflectors, controller with multiple channels, an external power supply (with CE stamp...), very quiet fan, and now they even have a Wifi controllable version. They publish par and spectrum numbers in the eBay descriptions. I've had one over a 20 gallon mixed reef for about a year and it has been great. The shipping was amazingly fast. The unit shipped from Honk Kong and arrived in Georgia in less than a week from ordering. The overall design and build quality seems way ahead of my MarsAqua black boxes for almost the same price. That said, like the MarsAqua, they are using Bridgelux and Epi LED, not CREE and OSRAM. But if they are the right power and spectrum, who cares?

 

[five.five-six]

What Ryan said about safety concerns is 100% true, if you have ever traveled abroad you have seen these in hotel rooms, they are quite popular. There are millions upon millions of them in sevice.

 

[hart24601]

I'm wondering if anybody has ever tried to rig up a diffuser on a BB light? Seems like it would would help even out the spread, while lowering par, most people could handle much lower par coming out of these lights.

Yep. Diffuser is cheap off Amazon and even just double side tape makes clean install and even with the diffuser on the bottom with no gap it makes a big difference. I also put the diffuser a inch away on the rails and that worked well too. Here is one with it on and not on other.

Need to mount them lower with diffuser or have canopy though or get light bleed in your eyes.

 

[CMatlosz]

I'm wondering if anybody has ever tried to rig up a diffuser on a BB light? Seems like it would would help even out the spread, while lowering par, most people could handle much lower par coming out of these lights.

I"m currently using this right now on my DIY pucks...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000B75TTY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It works really well as a layer on the plastic splash guard to cut down on the disco effect and improve my perceived blending. I say perceived because I have no data or meter to back up that claim, but it definitely looks much better to my eye and my corals seem as happy as ever. Seems like it works very similar in concept to the diffuser panel Ecotech is putting out.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

This is the thread that just keeps on giving!

@Ryanbrs it doesn't matter what you say, how you say it or anything else. The black box users will defend their purchase to the end. It's basic human psychology. People take it personal when anyone sheds negative light (no pun intended) on an item they've purchased.

It reminds me so much of my other hobby and that forum: Golf. The arguments in that world are unreal to listen to.

I've gone through the thread and haven't seen anyone really "defending" the use of these BB. What I have seen is people pointing out some issues with how the information in the video is presented. @Flippers4pups makes a very important point with his post about the BB that caught fire for Mr. Carroll vs the one tested by BRS.

 

[Brew12]

Unless I missed part of a conversation, I can't help but wonder about lighting bandwidth changes over time. Will a low quality 420nm LED drift from that bandwidth earlier than a higher quality one. And, if so, does it shift enough to make a difference to the coral?