Well this is no good... (warning! wp-25 discussion ahead)

redfishbluefish

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First thing we need to clarify is that there is NO lawsuit. I challenge anyone to show different.


I fully agree. However, what is typical in potential patent infringement cases is to first have your attorneys send a “cease and desist†letter to the offending company. What they are trying to do is avoid legal costs and hope that the company would abide by the letter. What I find interesting is that these letters supposedly were sent to the retailers. I just find that odd. Would Tunze take every retailer to court that continues to sell these things? And on what grounds, when infringement hasn’t been proven???? Just odd.
 
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CoryC

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How do you know Jebao doesn't have any consistent quality since you don't own or run one? What's boring is seeing people make up bs about things they have no experience with, like yourself.

You think you see a patent violation, but a patent lawyer (someone who actually has knowledge of the subject), showed why Tunze would lose the case on RC (functional vs ornamental design). Tunze's design is functional, and the patent would possibly be rendered invalid if tried in court.

The reason these aren't compared to standard Koralias, is because they are a MUCH better DC pump with a nice easy controller. I ran Koralias before the MP40s, and I couldn't get rid of the Koralias quick enough. Now that's a pump with no resale, and the Jebao pump is much better quality.

I also could care less what these are in resale, as I have no reason to sell them. I don't need an inflated market price point to determine the true value of an item.

i've seen them, i've seen them run, i've seen them malfunction. I stated this earlier. I didn't buy one because i saw how shoddy they were constructed. you're letting your personal opinions of the pump emotionally cloud your judgement of their quantitative construction and abilities. they push the same amount of water as the other pumps, someone compared the GPH earlier and they are exactly the same. anything else is purely speculative. they push a narrow column of water, MPs move the water column with a larger swath due to construction. It's hardly got a nice controller, considering it's been documented numerous times that it FAILS out the box. No thanks, i'll buy something that works, even used.
 

Dsdaley77

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i've seen them, i've seen them run, i've seen them malfunction. I stated this earlier. I didn't buy one because i saw how shoddy they were constructed. you're letting your personal opinions of the pump emotionally cloud your judgement of their quantitative construction and abilities. they push the same amount of water as the other pumps, someone compared the GPH earlier and they are exactly the same. anything else is purely speculative. they push a narrow column of water, MPs move the water column with a larger swath due to construction. It's hardly got a nice controller, considering it's been documented numerous times that it FAILS out the box. No thanks, i'll buy something that works, even used.

Could you post some of those fails or maybe have the owners chime in? He said she said I saw only goes so far. I for one have scoured the net and can only find maybe 5% of people having issues and mostly with the night sensor which is crud and we know it already ;)


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PaulKreider

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This thread is just full of pessimists and optimists. The optimists bought the wp40's and are having little to no problems so far. The pessimists are sticking to the old pumps and claiming superiority without knowing whether or not the pump is "Higher Quality" Only time can tell and as for right now its purely speculations.
 

revhtree

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I don't have a problem using cheaper equipment as long as it works. I do have a problem with someone using a "design" illegally if in fact what has been done is infringing on a patent.
 

CoryC

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^ this. also, there is some of those failures outlined in a thread on the ETRC page of the forum, but others i've over heard in discussions at my LFS. Not everything exists on the internet, some of it is in real life. This whole thread is anecdotal, there is nothing quantitative that says the WP pumps are better, nothing at all. Just people saying so, who haven't owned them long enough to make a quantitative comparison. Let me know in a year.
 

bucksfan1976

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Ok I went kinda off the wall :) and contacted fish street directly and here was the reply

>There is talk that you cant ship to the US any longer. Is this true? Something about patent infringement?

Hi

We can send to US, do not trust the rumors we can ship to you without worries, if you need anything let us know.

Thanks

eRic



So it appears to me as if Tunze has gone and flexed their muscles to the wrong person. Threating people for selling the wp-40, competition sucks, maybe this will make Tunze and Ecotech realize that their stuff is a bit overpriced.
 

CoryC

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people keep saying it's overpriced, but unless you work for ecotech or tunze, you're talking out of your rear because you have no idea what their costs are.
 

bucksfan1976

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Ecotech and Tunze are overpriced. Ill tell ya this 95% of the stuff in Ecotech and Tunze for sure arent built here in the US , you think they pay top dollar over there. I doubt it. Its people who swear and live by ecotech and Tunze that are killing these guys, TBH show me a thread where people have hated them or called them the worst piece of equipment out there, its because they are actually built ok and worth the 100$
 

MitchReef

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I can remember another case of Patent Infringement...It was the Solaris LEDs from PFO....There was a big Patent Infringement case, PFO went out of business and now voila!!!! Everybody with a soldering iron is making LED lights with advanced control circuits....
 

bucksfan1976

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Exactly we all knew it was just a matter of time until someone did it. Problem is it can take years before courts even see the case, by that time tunze will have changed their pumps and so will have jebao.

You know I saw where EcoTech was very rude to some people on other forums bragging about their R&D. Well the need to R&D a wire that is capable of staying inside the controller, Ive seen people who have taken every step nesessary to stop the wires from coming out it still happens, I cant tell ya how many wet sides/dry sides go bad on ecotech products. Tunze I think is a bit behind the 8 ball on controllers and such. I live in a town with some very high end stores and neither of them sell tunze pumps. Heck one had the ones they had left over on sale for 45% off, kinda crazy.

Im just saying this about the jebao, I got mine end of Januaryish or feb and not one issue, I had 2 MP10s and the dry side went out on one after 3 weeks. not even being ran at 100% so everything has issues.
 
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CoryC

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Bucksfan, you should honestly stop making claims you can't back up. 95% of their products aren't made here..yadda yadda yadda. they're overpriced! maybe to you, but i've seen them run for years without problem, or if something goes out even after warranty they will work with you. it's customer service and a quality product that makes brand loyalty. i bet that dry side was covered by the warranty, something the $100 one doesn't cover. unless you have another $100 bill. it's a cheap pump that can push water, it works, for now. but i need more integration, a less directional flow, a more streamlined look, and more adjustability. if i don't need all that stuff, i'll get the cheap pump. but i've seen people around here with them, they don't fit my needs. there's not just one powerhead for every person.
 

Daniel@R2R

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It's a shame we can't just all agree that we'll each buy the pump that serves our needs and not bash the other person's preference. Again, this just seems like the same kind of debate that breaks out over Chinese LEDs with one group screaming that they're all cheap crap and the other group screaming how the name brands are all overpriced. Come on, guys! If you like Tunze, support them. If you like EcoTech, support them. If you like the Jaebo pumps, support them. The fact that they work great in one person's tank doesn't mean they universally meet everyone's needs or that they're the best pump ever, nor does the fact that they haven't been around for long enough to test their longevity mean that they won't be able to hold up on par with Tunze and Ecotech. Bottom-line is that nobody knows how these will do over the long haul, and nobody can claim that they're "cheap knock offs" yet either. There just isn't enough info. This has really turned into a shouting match that is quickly degenerating into everyone saying, "MY PUMP IS BETTER THAN YOUR PUMP!!" It's a stinkin' circle...and just not good conversation anymore.
 

Daniel@R2R

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...i've seen people around here with them, they don't fit my needs. there's not just one powerhead for every person.

THIS! I think this statement applies regardless of which side of the argument you're on...
 

CoryC

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Actually there is. On another forum under local forums, tennessee, ETRC there is a thread on this very topic and in the last few pages people have mentioned that they have arrived without power cords and other parts, stopped spinning in different modes, quit working entirely after a couple months, etc. Longevity tested. Go see for yourself. I'm not making any unverifiable claims, simply pointing out that other people were, and now showing were you can go find independent accounts of how these pumps work, before wasting your hard earned money on one.
 

Dsdaley77

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Actually there is. On another forum under local forums, tennessee, ETRC there is a thread on this very topic and in the last few pages people have mentioned that they have arrived without power cords and other parts, stopped spinning in different modes, quit working entirely after a couple months, etc. Longevity tested. Go see for yourself. I'm not making any unverifiable claims, simply pointing out that other people were, and now showing were you can go find independent accounts of how these pumps work, before wasting your hard earned money on one.

For the ones that used the pump and it died, how come you never see the pump in tank shots of theirs? Makes me wonder if they ever actually owned one or if its people just running their mouths to make waves. ( pun intended ;) )


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CoryC

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do you want a dna test too? maybe a polygraph? maybe because it wasnt alive long enough for them to get around to taking FTS again? haha
 
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bhazard451

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Actually there is. On another forum under local forums, tennessee, ETRC there is a thread on this very topic and in the last few pages people have mentioned that they have arrived without power cords and other parts, stopped spinning in different modes, quit working entirely after a couple months, etc. Longevity tested. Go see for yourself. I'm not making any unverifiable claims, simply pointing out that other people were, and now showing were you can go find independent accounts of how these pumps work, before wasting your hard earned money on one.

Hmm, one small forum with a topic full of Ecotech supporters... yet the biggest reef forum on the net has many more opposite stories from many more people. Imagine that!

Unless you have access to the books to Ecotech/Tunze/whatever company, you can't make any claim that they aren't overpriced, because you don't have access to the information to determine that either! Ecotech employees could be having $200,000 crack parties for all you know.

Basically, the majority of backlash against the Jebao pumps, come from the people who own them. They can't accept that some people (like myself) like the Jebao pumps better, and throw around "i heard this" and "blah blah chinese junk", because they have nothing meaningful to add to the conversation.

The same bs was thrown at me a year ago when I bought Evergrow leds (Reefbreeders) and started using neutral whites, warm whites, violets, reds, and cyans before any fixture even had them. "Ohh cheap chinese crap", "oh those leds are gonna kill your coral" etc etc. Yet, believe it or not, my tank is thriving.

Do research, and don't listen to BS, politics, fanboyism, and elitism. Most people refuse to accept new ideas, and hate change.
 

CoryC

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i'm listening to first hand experience from people who own them on the forum i pointed out. when they bought them and THEY FAILED a short time later or didn't come with all parts REQUIRED to FUNCTION, or didn't function properly and made noise or didn't spin in certain modes. Hello. Earth to you. It's not a "forum full of ecotech supporters". I KNOW that ecotech's costs are more than jaebo's. That's obvious, to anyone with a slight hold on how the business works. How is a powerhead a new idea? It's not, it's just a poorly constructed chinese model at a lower price point. Not some new game changer in the reef industry. it's basically a powerful koralia. the people on that forum OWNED the pump, some of them broke, some of them didn't, some people didn't like their performance. there's a good swath of people on there who have posted their own first hand experience about these pumps. i'm simply showing you where and how to find this information and you act like it's some crazy conspiracy. next you'll tell me obama's the one behind the cease and decist letter because he doesn't want conservative members of the reef community buying cheap chinese products.
 
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