What a horrible statement!

[bblumberg]

It would be an interesting experiment to analyze the anemones in an area to ask whether they were clones of a few animals, or the result of sexual reproduction. We are taught to expect that sexual reproduction is always best, i.e., gives the fittest offspring but this does not necessarily always apply.

For example, Daphnia will happily reproduce asexually, producing only female clones until environmental conditions deteriorate (low oxygen, food shortage, stressful temperature, etc). At that point, males are produced and sexual reproduction commences. I have no idea what happens in anemones or other Cnidarians but it is an interesting question.

 

[Wiz]

Lol... how is Daphne? I can assure you she meant no offence. She has been on a lifelong mission to dissuade hobbyists from keeping nems. The vast majority sadly do die and it's safe to say that ALL nems eventually perish in captivity, compared to in the wild (the disclaimer is that they can live for hundreds of years in the wild, as no-one has had a tank running for more than about 60 years, it's safe to say not a single captive nem has died of old age).

Spot on my friend. Lol

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

As a University professor myself, I deplore the comments that you received. They were condescending, uninformative and the type of silly prattle that gives academics a bad reputation. Unless the ancient professor spent her entire career at a private university, she was likely supported (salary, grants or both) by tax dollars. Those of us who are have the implied obligation to give something back to those who support us. Your question was reasonable and should have received a thoughtful response. She could have replied what genus and species she thought your anemone might be and then something like, "sorry, I am not up on the common names for these anemones". On the other hand, any bona fide expert should have some idea of what are the common names for the creatures they study... Please tell the professor in question that in my opinion it is good she is retired and not passing her poisonous attitudes to the next generation of scientists.

Bravo for being a stand-up person and sharing that.

I'd add to it and say that you (@Wiz) don't need her approval. And you certainly don't need the approval of anyone who doesn't care about you or looks down on you. My point is I think you should take her comments very lightly as she's not a serious person. Someone who's serious would respect herself enough to objectively examine her own remarks.

If you do find out what this nem is, it would be nice if you could post in here.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

This is a really cool discussion. Following!

 

[danreefman]

I think you guys worry to much and waist so much time and effort on what some lady that got some degree is saying. Your all mind boggled and worked up about some lady you've never seen and probably will never meet.

It's like the people that watch the news. They watch every day knowing most of what they'll hear is not good. And than they waist they're morning, day, week, month, and year crying about it. Doing nothing about what they're crying about.

I don't watch the news. To busy (selfish) at the moment to do anything about what I see or about so I stay away. I have a young family to worry about and a company to run. If I worried anymore than what I'm writing in this thread, I'd get nothing done for the rest of the day.

Instead of asking all of us what we think. Why don't you call her or write her back to find out the true meaning of what she meant.

I wouldn't have wrote all of this, but the title caught my attention, I started reading and reading more. Now I feel a little dumber. going on and on about some lady that wrote some books.

Hope you have a great week! And quit worrying about other people's opinions and thoughts. Take it with a grain of salt, I'm sure it wasn't personal. She just doesn't like hobbiest. She's bitter and sucking you in. Sucked me in for 10 min or so.

 

[Wiz]

I am not upset nor have I been about what she said. Well not a lot anyways. And I would never let her tell me how to Reef. It's more just a topic for discussion. How people feel about the way someone who knows so much passes on that knowledge or not. And secondarily why that person may or may not want to share their knowledge. I'm sorry if anybody thought that this was just a waste of a post.
I do not like to dismiss anybody. Even if they are a bit negative. I like to understand where anyone comes from. Then I can decide whether or not I agree with their position. Which sometimes has surprised me in the end. The idea that someone who is involved in teaching and know so much about the subject would squash interests and hinder learning is a bit confusing to me. I'm sure she has her reasons though.
I'm sure I would agree with her on some people keeping Reef. But the simple fact is that reefing is here and will be here. So at that point it would be in my best interest along with all reefers to learn as much as possible and to teach those who do not yet know. Whether it's for hobby or science which as some have said should be one in the same.
Anyway, my best guess right now is the octopus anemone. It is very very similar. There are just a few characteristics that are different and bothered me. Such as the color which I cannot recreate in pictures on Google. As well as the placement of the color spots. And also a slight difference in the tentacle characteristics. But at a quick glance they do look very similar and unlike any other type. If I find out more I will update. And thank you for all those who give their opinions. Even those who think it's a waste of time.

 

[mort]

I've had the pleasure to email her before with an unknown anemone hitchhiker. We had a really great discussion but again couldn't identify it to an exact species because this is extremely hard with anemones unless you actually have them to examine.

I'd also like to suggest we imagine it from another perspective. Take a subject that you have devoted your life to and see people trying to keep them, taking them into captivity, where the rigours of collection-acclimation may kill a large percentage, and be really positive about it. With the written word it can make things look different to how they are meant.

It looks a really interesting species and I can see why it was bought but if the guys through the collecting chain to shop didn't know what it was it makes it hard to id from a photo.

 

[Wiz]

That's pretty much the reasoning I assumed for her attitude. Which I do understand. I would have understood a lot more when reefing first begin And she thought there was a chance of stopping the inevitable. But at this point she must know that it will not stop. And it may be the only hope for continuing species that are in our tanks. So at that point education should begin. To her credit, she obviously disagreed with what I was doing. But she was very polite and not rude at all. Just not helpful either and slightly condescending.

 

[Elegance Coral]

I have to post in this thread, and I'm probably going to upset some people, but this is just wrong.
Dr. Daphne G. Fautin has been very good about helping hobbyists. Never heard of a hobbyist reaching out to her for help without receiving a lengthy response in return. Not once! Which she does not get paid for, BTW. You may not like what she has to say, but you can rest assured she is telling the truth as she sees it. People are getting "offended" by what she said, but we all know that what she said is true.
Aiptasia does much better in our systems than magnifica. That's a fact, and we all know it to be true. We could take this knowledge and work to improve our abilities to provide magnifica with its needs, but noooooo. We get offended, slam this woman, and argue over the definition of "weed".
She states that she doesn't use common names with these animals, then goes on to explain why. Naturally, the OP did not post that explanation, or the rest of her reply. Just the two lines that were cheery picked that they found offensive. Leaving out the bulk of her reply.
I don't use common names for these animals either. Probably for the same reasons as Dr. Fautin, but I have no way of knowing for sure, because I don't have the whole story. Anyway..... I have seen four different species offered for sale under the name "Seabae anemone". Can you see how that could be confusing??? I've seen magnifica listed as "bulb" anemone and quadricolor listed as "bubble" anemone. I can see people getting this confused as well. M. doreensis is known as the "long tentacle anemone". There are many anemones with long tentacles. Confusing maybe??????
I've read over the two lines from her, and this whole thread. I'm still at a loss as to why people are offended. Are you offended because she doesn't want to be a hobbyist because we aren't as good at keeping gigantea as we are aiptasia??? How is that offensive??? It's true. Is it offensive because she doesn't use common names??? Even though she took the time to explain why??
This woman has gone above and beyond to help out us hobbyists. Her book is even free to everyone online. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi15MPNl4nXAhWD7CYKHU7FDVAQFggtMAE&url=http://jjgeisler.com/reeftank/anemones/&usg=AOvVaw08MdKRRTS2o9zCe3H5ekzb For all the work she's done, and all the lengthy replies to our many questions, all she gets from us is a thread bashing her name. Truly sad!!

Peace
EC

 

[ca1ore]

"Best wishes. Most tropical anemones do not do well in captivity - the ones that do are the ones we regard as weeds and want to be rid of! That is one reason I am not an aquarist."

Well, the final observation is her opinion, as such unarguable. She's largely right about the survival rate of many of the anemone species that are regularly collected (and makes the point in her book). Those that are 'easy' are mostly akin to weeds (including bubble tips), the others do do poorly. Perhaps not the 99% death sentence from years ago, but still high. How many of the buyers actually are familiar with, and willing to do, the antibiotic protocol for a sick anemone - a small percentage I'd wager. There are lots of animals seen regularly for sale that have dismal prospects for survival ..... and probably shouldn't be collected.

FWIW, I have no idea what kind of anemone it is.

 

[The Bungulo]

it might be a rose bulb

 

[Wiz]

Ok. I can tell you are offended. So I'll try to be polite.

First, I did not name anyone!

Second, I do not believe what she said is true. (Obviously)

Third, Yes aptasia does do better but my btas have been with me for years! And are still not weeds. I've never had a rock nem die. Even an ultra. So I would say that's false too. To me anyway.

Fourth, I did say she gave me a story about why she doesnt know the common names. But I think the scientific names would be just as misused if we all used them. And that part is mute anyway. I don't care if she gave me a scientific name. Actually I hoped she would. The reason she said that is that I called it a possible "octopus" nem. Would have been nice to know the scientific name. That's how you learn about the species.

Fifth, as you stated she was not directly offensive. Nor do I think she meant to be! It's just came across that way to me. Left me deflated and disheartened. Sorry it made me feel that way.

LOOK, this post was not meant to bash anyone. I was trying to step outside the hobby and learn. The scientific name and how to care for my loved nem. I went above and beyond the average reefer to ensure the health and longevity of a creature that she loves. So to leave discouraged, intended or not, was upsetting. I was very great full for the response which as I stated I was not expecting. And she was very polite. This thread was a discussion on the disconnect between science and hobby. Nothing more.
The basis question was do you agree with the statements. Not do you agree she's rude.

Lastly, I would like to appolagize to any and all who are upset by this. It was not my intention. I never meant for the person to be named. Nor did I mean to bash. I just want my nem to do well and I need help. :/

 

[Wiz]

I have to post in this thread, and I'm probably going to upset some people, but this is just wrong.
Dr. Daphne G. Fautin has been very good about helping hobbyists. Never heard of a hobbyist reaching out to her for help without receiving a lengthy response in return. Not once! Which she does not get paid for, BTW. You may not like what she has to say, but you can rest assured she is telling the truth as she sees it. People are getting "offended" by what she said, but we all know that what she said is true.
Aiptasia does much better in our systems than magnifica. That's a fact, and we all know it to be true. We could take this knowledge and work to improve our abilities to provide magnifica with its needs, but noooooo. We get offended, slam this woman, and argue over the definition of "weed".
She states that she doesn't use common names with these animals, then goes on to explain why. Naturally, the OP did not post that explanation, or the rest of her reply. Just the two lines that were cheery picked that they found offensive. Leaving out the bulk of her reply.
I don't use common names for these animals either. Probably for the same reasons as Dr. Fautin, but I have no way of knowing for sure, because I don't have the whole story. Anyway..... I have seen four different species offered for sale under the name "Seabae anemone". Can you see how that could be confusing??? I've seen magnifica listed as "bulb" anemone and quadricolor listed as "bubble" anemone. I can see people getting this confused as well. M. doreensis is known as the "long tentacle anemone". There are many anemones with long tentacles. Confusing maybe??????
I've read over the two lines from her, and this whole thread. I'm still at a loss as to why people are offended. Are you offended because she doesn't want to be a hobbyist because we aren't as good at keeping gigantea as we are aiptasia??? How is that offensive??? It's true. Is it offensive because she doesn't use common names??? Even though she took the time to explain why??
This woman has gone above and beyond to help out us hobbyists. Her book is even free to everyone online. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi15MPNl4nXAhWD7CYKHU7FDVAQFggtMAE&url=http://jjgeisler.com/reeftank/anemones/&usg=AOvVaw08MdKRRTS2o9zCe3H5ekzb For all the work she's done, and all the lengthy replies to our many questions, all she gets from us is a thread bashing her name. Truly sad!!

Peace
EC

There are a few people in here that mentione names. Not me. I'd like to point that out. This thread was NOT about bashing anyone. If anything it was about being bashed.

 

[Wiz]

it might be a rose bulb

Not a rose. Thanks though.

 

[ca1ore]

Yes aptasia does do better but my btas have been with me for years! And are still not weeds. I've never had a rock nem die. Even an ultra. So I would say that's false too. To me anyway.

LOL, I'd put BTA in the 'weed ' camp. Good point about rocks and even mini carpets, pretty easy to keep; though to be fair, she did say 'most', not 'all'. I think the topic of what animals should be kept, and which should not, inflames passions. Everyone has their opinions, and if stated respectfully debate is a good thing. Good thread BTW.

 

[Wiz]

LOL, I'd put BTA in the 'weed ' camp. Good point about rocks and even mini carpets, pretty easy to keep; though to be fair, she did say 'most', not 'all'. I think the topic of what animals should be kept, and which should not, inflames passions. Everyone has their opinions, and if stated respectfully debate is a good thing. Good thread BTW.

Thanks. and if miny carpets, Ultra Rock nems, Rose bubble tips and purple tip bubble tips, giant carpets electric green, tube nem's are all weeds you can fill my garden with weeds anytime. lol

 

[mort]

Ok. I can tell you are offended. So I'll try to be polite.

First, I did not name anyone!

Second, I do not believe what she said is true. (Obviously)

Third, Yes aptasia does do better but my btas have been with me for years! And are still not weeds. I've never had a rock nem die. Even an ultra. So I would say that's false too. To me anyway.

Fourth, I did say she gave me a story about why she doesnt know the common names. But I think the scientific names would be just as misused if we all used them. And that part is mute anyway. I don't care if she gave me a scientific name. Actually I hoped she would. The reason she said that is that I called it a possible "octopus" nem. Would have been nice to know the scientific name. That's how you learn about the species.

Fifth, as you stated she was not directly offensive. Nor do I think she meant to be! It's just came across that way to me. Left me deflated and disheartened. Sorry it made me feel that way.

LOOK, this post was not meant to bash anyone. I was trying to step outside the hobby and learn. The scientific name and how to care for my loved nem. I went above and beyond the average reefer to ensure the health and longevity of a creature that she loves. So to leave discouraged, intended or not, was upsetting. I was very great full for the response which as I stated I was not expecting. And she was very polite. This thread was a discussion on the disconnect between science and hobby. Nothing more.
The basis question was do you agree with the statements. Not do you agree she's rude.

Lastly, I would like to appolagize to any and all who are upset by this. It was not my intention. I never meant for the person to be named. Nor did I mean to bash. I just want my nem to do well and I need help. :/

The statement about weeds was likely a very generalised one, saying that only the weeds do well doesn't mean it includes anything specific just that most people don't have trouble keeping pest species that they don't want.

There is also a problem with common versus scientific names because common names are meaningless. By saying you think it might be like a octopus nem, that's still not going to get an answer because what actually is an octopus nem? When I had my query nem it was mentioned that lots of nems have a very similar or near identical appearance even though they can be very different, and it's only by close inspection or disection of the foot and verrucae that you might find the answer. There are also over 1000 anemone species.

So at the end of the day I think it's going to be very difficult to get an exact answer either way unfortunately.

 

[PAXpress]

Ok. I can tell you are offended. So I'll try to be polite.

First, I did not name anyone!

Second, I do not believe what she said is true. (Obviously)

Third, Yes aptasia does do better but my btas have been with me for years! And are still not weeds. I've never had a rock nem die. Even an ultra. So I would say that's false too. To me anyway.

Fourth, I did say she gave me a story about why she doesnt know the common names. But I think the scientific names would be just as misused if we all used them. And that part is mute anyway. I don't care if she gave me a scientific name. Actually I hoped she would. The reason she said that is that I called it a possible "octopus" nem. Would have been nice to know the scientific name. That's how you learn about the species.

Fifth, as you stated she was not directly offensive. Nor do I think she meant to be! It's just came across that way to me. Left me deflated and disheartened. Sorry it made me feel that way.

LOOK, this post was not meant to bash anyone. I was trying to step outside the hobby and learn. The scientific name and how to care for my loved nem. I went above and beyond the average reefer to ensure the health and longevity of a creature that she loves. So to leave discouraged, intended or not, was upsetting. I was very great full for the response which as I stated I was not expecting. And she was very polite. This thread was a discussion on the disconnect between science and hobby. Nothing more.
The basis question was do you agree with the statements. Not do you agree she's rude.

Lastly, I would like to appolagize to any and all who are upset by this. It was not my intention. I never meant for the person to be named. Nor did I mean to bash. I just want my nem to do well and I need help. :/

Arent they technically flower anemones, and rock anemone is aiptasia?

 

[Wiz]

Arent they technically flower anemones, and rock anemone is aiptasia?

They are neither because those are common names and get confused all the time. Haven't you been paying attention.
Yes they maybe flower I get the two confused.

 

[Dancingmad]

Diggin' like 95% of this, especially the discussion about lifespan as it pertains to asexual production. Which one is the original!? Does Karen end up being Karen and Susan post split, or is "There is no Susan. There are only Karens."

I have questions.

@Wiz How is the nem doing? Is it wandering? Are you feedin' it? If so, what does it snack on? 'Ems some serious tentacles. It zing you yet?