What am I dealing with Algae/Bacteria

[Merge_595]

Just a quick update, I'm dealing with dinoflagellate ( Prorocentrum )

Prorocentrum do not go waterborne when lights out, making UV treatment unlikely to work.

As far as I can see I have a couple of choices

Dose silicate ( water glass ) to induce a diatom bloom to out compete the Dino's.

Or remove the sanded

Any thoughts welcome

Copepods Amphipods & Phytoplankton & leave it as long as it doesn't get worse. Dosing something to fix one problem will just create a different problem never fails

 

[Spare time]

Just a quick update, I'm dealing with dinoflagellate ( Prorocentrum )

Prorocentrum do not go waterborne when lights out, making UV treatment unlikely to work.

As far as I can see I have a couple of choices

Dose silicate ( water glass ) to induce a diatom bloom to out compete the Dino's.

Or remove the sanded

Any thoughts welcome

I don't believe removing or replacing the sand bed would help.

 

[Twoddler]

I don't believe removing or replacing the sand bed would help.

I think your probably right, they,ll just move to the rock, it was an option my lfs suggested.

 

[Twoddler]

I'm sure there may be many options on what you should do, and there could be multiple options. If you aren't afraid of chemicals, dino x is the way to go. It doesn't work on all dino and mixed reviews on safety of coral. I personally have used it on a strain that it worked on and one it didn't. Neither time had effects on my coral. If you don't want the chemical route, you could raise po4 only, since your no3 looks decent to grow some algae to compete, dose silicates to compete, and dose live phytoplankton to compete. I wouldn't mess with peroxide because it is mostly only effective on contact. That's my ¢2 on it, and I have battled dinos before. Be patient...and vow to avoid them at all cost in the future lol.

I'm hoping not to do down the sledge hammer route ( dino x ) I have considered it but like you say mixed reviews, but I would try it as a last resort.
Working on P04 slowly raising, and dosing all of the above mentioned.

To be honest I know how I gave them the opportunity to become dominant, l think most tanks have some form of dino, and given the right conditions they,ll take over, ie no nutrients or a massive imbalance.
Hopefully come out of this and lesson learnt.

 

[TheDuude]

In my experience dinos are due to lack of diversity in the tank to outcompete them. Don't add anything that claims to Kill dino, it won't work. Stop doing water changes, stop siphoning sand. Let the tank get dirty and let it start growing so other more complex algaes. IPSF diversity pack does wonders toa ad beneficial bacteria and copepods. This has worked for me in 3 tanks.

 

[Twoddler]

In my experience dinos are due to lack of diversity in the tank to outcompete them. Don't add anything that claims to Kill dino, it won't work. Stop doing water changes, stop siphoning sand. Let the tank get dirty and let it start growing so other more complex algaes. IPSF diversity pack does wonders toa ad beneficial bacteria and copepods. This has worked for me in 3 tanks.

Totally agree

I'm letting the tank get dirty, I do have an issue with nutrients, I'm dosing phosphate to keep it detectable ( hannah checker )
Nitrates are now heading towards 50ppm ( stopped carbon dosing & waterchanges )
I'm only feed a small amount every other day.

Bit of an headache

 

[brandon429]

removing the sandbed, beating them, and putting it back is best.

let's do a skip cycle sandbed pull on your setup/helps tremendously here for this battle

*we can put it back as a skip cycle rinsed re install after you win the dinos. that'll get me two more skip cycle reef jobs for the threads, and you'll have a leg up on the battle.

 

[Twoddler]

removing the sandbed, beating them, and putting it back is best.

let's do a skip cycle sandbed pull on your setup/helps tremendously here for this battle

*we can put it back as a skip cycle rinsed re install after you win the dinos. that'll get me two more skip cycle reef jobs for the threads, and you'll have a leg up on the battle.

This is what was suggested by my lfs, but would nt the prorocentrum just migrate into the rock ?

 

[brandon429]

sure they might, and they're easier to get to and battle there. the sandbed is a major insulator for them, against all your proactive moves. We have been pulling sandbeds/reinstalling to fight dinos a good while now, several threads from 5+ years ago have us talking about that benefit. plus you get the benefit of clean/no waste sand getting put back later.



effective quarantine of all imported hardscapes is the best preventer going forward/qt fixes it after the battle is won or they're suppressed effectively.

once the sand is out, you being able to remove those rocks and directly battle the attached cells outside the water is crucial. doing it with sand in place = detritus tank wipe risk.

if you notice, in the big dinos thread, their ability to actually fix tanks is about 1% because they always, always, always handle things delicately or advise no water changes at all. by doing opposite of their collected advice, we can get better outcomes but the tanks have to be smaller or people won't agree to pull the sand/too impractical

*the work they do is valid, needed, what else will large tankers do

but knowing some smaller tanks can manhandle vs kidglove these surfaces gets us above average results in my opinion. the UV you may add, the param changes, the lighting levels reduced (major cause nobody addresses imo) all work better without this hiding place/sand

 

[brandon429]

if you decide to pull it, let's make the step by step pre plan here

 

[MeganV]

So I bought a cheap microscope, took samples from various part of the tank, this is what I so, hopefully I'm wrong but I see dino,s. Not sure what type hopefully some one on here more knowledgeable can help me, I'd these little pests, and suggest a battle plan

I am not an expert, but I believe this is Prorocentrum; could be LCA but you'd need to confirm the presence of the characteristic "beak" on LCA.

I am not savvy enough to know how to attach a file here, but if you search on R2R for "Dealing with Dinos PDF" you will find the Mack's Reef PDF file which has some pretty comprehensive info for ID and treatment. There is also a great Facebook group where there are some resident experts to help with ID.

I suffered through almost an entire year of SCA and by sticking to the protocols, finally got rid of it.

 

[Spare time]

I think your probably right, they,ll just move to the rock, it was an option my lfs suggested.

I set up a new tank and got all the same stuff from my old setup except the sand and I had dinos forever on the sand.

 

[Twoddler]

I am not an expert, but I believe this is Prorocentrum; could be LCA but you'd need to confirm the presence of the characteristic "beak" on LCA.

I am not savvy enough to know how to attach a file here, but if you search on R2R for "Dealing with Dinos PDF" you will find the Mack's Reef PDF file which has some pretty comprehensive info for ID and treatment. There is also a great Facebook group where there are some resident experts to help with ID.

I suffered through almost an entire year of SCA and by sticking to the protocols, finally got rid of it.

Already confirmed thanks , Prorocentrum

 

[Jackal799]

Already confirmed thanks , Prorocentrum

If you decide to not pull your sand they sell uv sand rakes that will certainly kill them. It will also kill anything beneficial but so will rinsing your sand. I’d either do like Brandon said and pull your sand and follow his rinse instructions or UV it with something like this

Sand Bed UV Sweeper

Introducing the UV Sweeper – the ultimate tool for maintaining a pristine sand bed. This innovative device will effectively help control dinoflagellates and diatoms while preserving the delicate organisms beneath the surface. The UV Sweeper is at the core of a process to help shift the...

3dreefing.com

 

[brandon429]

Rip clean it first is safest

Agreed the light kills, it's better not to keep lysed cells in closed systems. The folks stating not to disturb sand before using it have the tool backwards even if it's the inventor making the claim

Great tool, needs applied the other way, to the clean condition so it's suppressing six target cells from division, vs trying to melt and kill ten billion cells left that could have been minused right from the start

Agreed rinsing is nuke

nuke this scourge he he really tho

Use this as ultimate growback prevention, not the remover/ killer left to rot in the tank and be irritants

Take no chances with this scourge which hardly anyone can control. My way has fails (regrowth wins, not tank crashes). But I claim it's the least of em

Pull sand, fight bare bottom and on glass with wand

-15% off light power held for two mos

Pull wand ensure growth stopped as bare bottom system

Reinstall rinsed sand, qt fallow 90 day observe all wet scape imports going forward= best dinos battle plan in reefing

 

[Twoddler]

If you decide to not pull your sand they sell uv sand rakes that will certainly kill them. It will also kill anything beneficial but so will rinsing your sand. I’d either do like Brandon said and pull your sand and follow his rinse instructions or UV it with something like this

Sand Bed UV Sweeper

Introducing the UV Sweeper – the ultimate tool for maintaining a pristine sand bed. This innovative device will effectively help control dinoflagellates and diatoms while preserving the delicate organisms beneath the surface. The UV Sweeper is at the core of a process to help shift the...

3dreefing.com

I did have a look at a uv wand, not easily found in uk, but would be difficult to use in my tank unless I started moving rock & coral. I think I would rather remove the sand @brandon429

 

[Twoddler]

Battle goes on, I,ve decided to go the diatom route.
I'm going to does liquid Sodium Silicate 40% ( Waterglass )
I'll give it a few mths, if I don't see any signs of improvement I'm going @brandon429 route

 

[brandon429]

good plan for sure. no harm in trying that for sure.

 

[Jackal799]

I did have a look at a uv wand, not easily found in uk, but would be difficult to use in my tank unless I started moving rock & coral. I think I would rather remove the sand @brandon429

Definitely the way to go and it shouldn’t take you too long if you get buckets and water ready ahead of time

 

[Twoddler]

Definitely the way to go and it shouldn’t take you too long if you get buckets and water ready ahead of time

The only place I can find this is in US absolutely nothing in UK or Europe wonder if its because of voltage difference ( UK being 240v mains ) or electrical laws