What causes ULN

[Ktran350]

Excuse my ignorance but what causes ULNS? My Nitrate has been undetectable (API test kit) and Phosphate has been undetectable (Salifert test kit) since the end of my cycle. I only run a Ramora AquaC HOB skimmer on my AIO JBJ 45 and polyfloss in both top section of the media basket. I had a break out of diatoms which has since disappeared. Now I have a break out of Dino on the sand bed only. I have algae barn’s pods and phyto coming today which I hope will take care of the current Dino and bring up my nitrate and Phosphate levels up. I have increased my feedings and will be increasing my dosing of Red Sea Reef Energy A and B 3x a week.

Current live stock:

2 clowns
1 lawnmower blenny
1 yellow watchman
1 six line wrasse
7 hermits
1 conch
6 snails

 

[Reefahholic]

This is a good thing! It usually means your tank is established and you have good nutrient export. Add more fish!

With the advanced technology today, our tanks can run much cleaner and sometimes too clean.

Take ur skimmer offline. Increasing the feedings was a good place to start. I personally would dose NaNO3 to “slowly” bring ur your nitrate level. If the PO4 doesn’t come up, you can always dose that too.

 

[Ktran350]

This is a good thing! It usually means your tank is established and you have good nutrient export. Add more fish!

With the advanced technology today, our tanks can run much cleaner and sometimes too clean.

Take ur skimmer offline. Increasing the feedings was a good place to start. I personally would dose NaNO3 to “slowly” bring ur your nitrate level. If the PO4 doesn’t come up, you can always dose that too.

Ok, thank you for the quick reply. I guess I will keep my increased feedings + dosing phyto for 1 week to see if that will help increase my levels and eliminate Dino.

How much fish can I put in before it is at max capacity? I already have 5.

 

[Reefahholic]

Ok, thank you for the quick reply. I guess I will keep my increased feedings + dosing phyto for 1 week to see if that will help increase my levels and eliminate Dino.

How much fish can I put in before it is at max capacity? I already have 5.

Sounds good. Just go slow on the phyto dosing. Add a few fish and see if the numbers climb a little. The total fish load is up to you and also the size of the fish. Since your numbers are undetectable with 5, you should be able to add a few more and easily keep low numbers.

I’d dose NO3 to slowly raise your NO3 by 1-2 ppm at a time.

 

[Ktran350]

So, dosed algaebarn’s live phyto and got a bacteria bloom (milky white)? According to the instructions you add 5ml for every 29 gallons. I only added 5ml. Is this normal? I’m assuming it’s not.

 

[Reefahholic]

So, dosed algaebarn’s live phyto and got a bacteria bloom (milky white)? According to the instructions you add 5ml for every 29 gallons. I only added 5ml. Is this normal? I’m assuming it’s not.

Not familiar with that product, but like I said...start sloooow with any dosing. 1/2 the recommended dose next time.

With my new reef, if I raise the NO3 more than 2 it will spike a funky diatom outbreak. Increasing by 1 every 24 hrs is safe. Of course testing before and after the dose.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I would not conclude a tank is ULN based on an API kit. I don't think it has adequate sensitivity and accuracy at the low end.

 

[Ktran350]

FWIW, I would not conclude a tank is ULN based on an API kit. I don't think it has adequate sensitivity and accuracy at the low end.

Hey, sorry Randy I didn’t see that you had replied to this thread. I’m using the API Nitrate test and Salifert PO4 test kits which both came up undetectable. I’m not concluding that I have a ULNS but wanted to know what would cause this since a lot of reefers use a few methods to lower their nutrients. I will be purchasing a Red Sea or Salifert Nitrate text once my API is used up.

I’ve increased my feedings to 3x a day, corals everyday rotating between Algae Barne’s live phytoplankton and Red Sea Reef Energy. I haven’t done a water change in about 2 weeks and still don’t see any detectable Nitrate or PO4. I’ve taken water samples to my LFS who uses Salifert test kit and we don’t see anything at all on those test kits as well. I leave my skimmer on to oxygenate the water since I’ve read Dino/diatom blooms can lower oxygen levels.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Have the corals changed at all since the increased feedings?

 

[Ktran350]

Nothing that I can notice. Corals are doing well. SPS which had a couple of branch tips that were bleached during transport from LFS home is recovering and has since gained some color back, frogspawn is starting to split, mushrooms are getting bigger and new heads on zoa

 

[jda]

I have never been able to get a tank to ULN without using GFO, organic carbon, LC, or the like. The only exception to this is the super early stages when the new/clean aragonite will bind up all of the phosphate available for a while, but this is usually over in a month or two.

Using only natural methods (fuge, skimmer, water changes, growing things), I have been able to get NSW level building blocks, which are low, but not ultra low... .1 n and .01 p. I would not want to be too much lower than this, but I could probably not get there if I wanted to.

ULNS came from the ZeoVit method of reefing. While this method keeps VERY low residual values on a test kit and does use some carbon dosing, there is a LOT of building blocks and organic carbon in the tank... they have very high throughput with heavy import and heavy export. Trying to be ULNS without having a lot of throughput is probably a bad idea for most.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have never been able to get a tank to ULN without using GFO, organic carbon, LC, or the like. The only exception to this is the super early stages when the new/clean aragonite will bind up all of the phosphate available for a while, but this is usually over in a month or two.
.

My system never got to ULN even with GFO and huge doses of vinegar. I think it was because I let detritus accumulate in my sumps for years, leaving a thick mud layer.

 

[jda]

My system never got to ULN even with GFO and huge doses of vinegar. I think it was because I let detritus accumulate in my sumps for years, leaving a thick mud layer.

I never let mine get that low using sugar or GFO either, but I could have if I dosed more. I was not saying that using either HAD to result in ULN, just that I have always needed them to get there.

Years ago, you posted that most phosphorous was excreted in urine and that detritus had a much lower amount. Following that logic and the fact that in an oligotrophic system, the organsims will scavenge all that they can very quickly, I once scooped out some of that sludge/mud that took some time to get into my sump and let it soak in some freshly mixed water... after a week, the N and P were both undetectable (clear) on Salifert (Hannah did not exist back them). I know that Salifert N and P test kits are not great at lower readings, but this showed me that while I wanted to get the stuff out, it was OK to let it sit in there for a few weeks until I got around to it. Basically, that by the time that it got there, most of the usable stuff was long gone.

If your experiences have since changed the phosphate concentration between urine and feces, then I would very much like to know since that could change some of my thinking and approaches.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If your experiences have since changed the phosphate concentration between urine and feces, then I would very much like to know since that could change some of my thinking and approaches.

It's not something I've looked into recently, so hopefully I was correct then.

 

[Ktran350]

So, an update. I finally had the chance to buy the Red Sea Algae Control test kit. My nitrate is at 1 ppm and Phosphate is still at 0. I bought brightwell’s neonitro and neophos. Will be dosing both to bring nitrate to 5 ppm and Phosphate to .04 ppm. Is this a good Nitrate to Phosphate ratio to provide nutrients to the system but not so much that I will get GH or other nuisance algae?

Also, I am debating between Fritz RPM salt vs. RS Blue bucket vs RSCP. Leaning towards Fritz vs Blue bucket due to RSCP high Alk levels.

My ideal parameters/what I am running is:

Salinity: 1.025
Alk: 8-9 (currently it’s between 7.7 - 8)
Cal: 450
Mag: 1350

I currently use Red Sea ABC and their reef energy.

I dose about 5 ML Red Sea liquid Alk (.03 ppm drop p/ day) and 5 ML Red Sea liquid Cal (10 ppm drop p/ day). Cal drop looks to be on the high side. Does this look right to you guys?

 

[Maacc]

You could catch the 6 line and add some fairy or flasher wrasses. I had a yellow watchman, 2 neon gobies, possum wrasse, melanurus, yellow, solarensis, isosceles wrasse yellowhead jawfish and 2 clowns.

 

[gorgoniansfever]

What causes ULN

Randy, How huge do you dose of vinegar ?
I want to dose it, my nano reef tank is 12g with 5ppm nitrate + 0.4ppm phosphate. There are three small fishes , a tree sponge, a flame clam, many Dendrophyllia corals and a hermits .
I use a BlueMarine QQ2 protein skimmer and 2 L filtration media.