What happened to the hobby?

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Joedubyk

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LOL!!
That's all you got?

I never said ALLLLLL of the newer folks. It was a generalization and you know it. But your rebuttal is hilarious.

I stand by my opinions and statements.
It amazes me how SO many people, especially in this hobby are so clueless on how supply/demand economics work. The "ThiS GeNERaTioN CrEAtEd BeCaUse TheY waNt InStanT GrAtifiCaTioN' has to be the worst explanation yet.....
 
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reefwiser

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Didn't know about the indo ban, but that shouldn't have affect farm grow corals that are already avaliable everywhere.

I think greedy and dump people are responsible for this, paying $800 for a golden torch, you've got to be kidding.

It seems I'll go with local hobbiest, and want I can find in the price ranges I consider fair.
The indo ban has also shut down aquaculture of corals by farms in the ocean.
So we have corals from OZ and what corals that can be collected in places like Vietnam.
Corals grown my hobby sellers and vendors are going to be more expensive as they have to grow them out using electric and made made saltwater. Vendors relied on cutting up corals to sell to people in the past that is gone now. Not looking good for prices to ever go back down. The hobby can not survive long term on corals grown by individual vendors or hobbyist. A large company or companies with deep pockets will have to step in an develop large green house systems like they have done for freshwater plants and fish. The industry has been slow to realize the issue at hand.
 

Joedubyk

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The indo ban has also shut down aquaculture of corals by farms in the ocean.
So we have corals from OZ and what corals that can be collected in places like Vietnam.
Corals grown my hobby sellers and vendors are going to be more expensive as they have to grow them out using electric and made made saltwater. Vendors relied on cutting up corals to sell to people in the past that is gone now. Not looking good for prices to ever go back down. The hobby can not survive long term on corals grown by individual vendors or hobbyist. A large company or companies with deep pockets will have to step in an develop large green house systems like they have done for freshwater plants and fish. The industry has been slow to realize the issue at hand.
But that's exactly what's happening. A lot of bigger vendors are farming out these days.
 
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tehmadreefer

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Total BULL ****. Why do women pay 500 dollars for purses? Why do people pay 10-15K or even MORE for a watch? 500 dollars for shoes?

Why do people pay 50K for a brand new car when you can get one for half that and does the same thing?

You people are clueless
Clueless? You complete missed the point of this thread... it's not about buying expensive things. It is about the massive mark up in cheap corals from just a few years ago. The exact same things that used to cost about $30-$40, now cost anywhere from $100 -$1000 or more and are much smaller frags.
 

NotASpammerDude

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Total BULL ****. Why do women pay 500 dollars for purses? Why do people pay 10-15K or even MORE for a watch? 500 dollars for shoes?

Why do people pay 50K for a brand new car when you can get one for half that and does the same thing?

You people are clueless
You are clueless if you think all markets are "free markets" and that purely supply and demand dictates prices.
Sorry to say.
 

Joedubyk

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Clueless? You complete missed the point of this thread... it's not about buying expensive things. It is about the massive mark up in cheap corals from just a few years ago. The exact same things that used to cost about $30-$40, now cost anywhere from $100 -$1000 or more and are much smaller frags.
Because of the indo ban, hence the supply/deamnd. Yet, the clueless people are blaming it on a generation. Vendors used to have product sold because they even unboxed it. That's not the case anymore. If they do an Aussie ban we'll see the same thing. markets change. Has nothing to do with the prsonality of a generation
 

reefwiser

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But that's exactly what's happening. A lot of bigger vendors are farming out these days.
What WWC is doing needs to be 1000 times bigger. An the cost to do this will not be cheap. The market for corals is much bigger than what most people realize. The cost will continue to rise. When framers could use nature to set corals out on a rack in the ocean for a year or too before they collected them with not cost of electric or water changes and maintenance. The cost to market was a lot less than several thousand gallon inland system.
 

Joedubyk

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What WWC is doing needs to be 1000 times bigger. An the cost to do this will not be cheap. The market for corals is much bigger than what most people realize. The cost will continue to rise. When framers could use nature to set corals out on a rack in the ocean for a year or too before they collected them with not cost of electric or water changes and maintenance. The cost to market was a lot less than several thousand gallon inland system.
Agree, things will be more expensive, but it's totally what needs to happen because there's a pretty good chance there will be more bans coming. More vendors will follow suit.
 

HawaiianReef

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I believe it does have a bit on generation as well. Generation as considered on the newer people entering the hobby, not on an age group.
Veterans I believe will have the hardest time paying out the money for something like a homewrecker, when they experienced stocking a full 300g DT for the cost of the frag.
Newer hobbyist lack those experiences and consider of expenses to dictate what they would spend on their new hobby. I used to sail and all my money went into that. Now I'm in a desert and I look at throwing a couple grand into reefing as I used to throw that much on my sheet lines.
Also the expense of electronic entertainment (video gaming) changed what people will invest into a hobby. I know s bunch of kids that have over 3k into their system and their still in high school. Those experiences, whether you buying them for your child or yourself, creates a whole different budget acceptance for hobbies.
 

Joedubyk

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I believe it does have a bit on generation as well. Generation as considered on the newer people entering the hobby, not on an age group.
Veterans I believe will have the hardest time paying out the money for something like a homewrecker, when they experienced stocking a full 300g DT for the cost of the frag.
Newer hobbyist lack those experiences and consider of expenses to dictate what they would spend on their new hobby. I used to sail and all my money went into that. Now I'm in a desert and I look at throwing a couple grand into reefing as I used to throw that much on my sheet lines.
Also the expense of electronic entertainment (video gaming) changed what people will invest into a hobby. I know s bunch of kids that have over 3k into their system and their still in high school. Those experiences, whether you buying them for your child or yourself, creates a whole different budget acceptance for hobbies.
Has nothing to do with generation and people with money. People with money will buy the expensive stuff, just like people with money will buy the more expensive shoes/purses. The poor people will always complain about the stuff they can't afford. Old or young.
 

paraletho

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I still sell my stuff pretty cheap. I live in a low demand area. I have noticed that when I price too low people automatically assume it is lower quality and I get less response. They will drive 200 miles and pay 3 to 4 times the amount because of an assumption. Sometimes I give it away in online contests with the local club just so I don’t have to throw it into the front yard.
 

Sisterlimonpot

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If there is an Ausie ban and prices go up, it will be because people are rubbing their hands together because it will be an excuse to raise prices.

I too left the hobby circa 2014 and wasn't able to notice the slow (or rapid) incline in prices, I only know that when I left, I was giving away euphyllia for free to anyone that wanted it. I had (just like everyone else) large basket ball size colonies of all of them. I'm sure at one time we relied on them to come from indo and aussie but once they were in our tanks, the entire import could stop and we would be able to supply the masses with a slight uptick in price.

Supply and demand is only the tip of the iceberg, market manipulation has created a false demand and has only been perpetuated by people actually paying the asking prices. Completely inflating the price of the hobby.

I tend to agree that this is a bubble and that we will start to see prices come down. I never spoke of it online, but have talked to other hobbyist locally and we tend to agree that what @NotASpammerDude said on page 1 has a lot to do with why we see these outrageous prices.

I also tend to point the finger at online vendors and question where they came up with the prices they're asking? Regardless of if anyone is actually paying the price, it immediately became the standard going price that everyone bases their prices on.

We as hobbyist need to start thinking for ourselves and refuse to play their game. But that will never happen, instead we just have to educate ourselves of what we perceive to be our personal truths and hope others share the same sentiment.
 
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NotASpammerDude

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Wrong. It's EXACTLY what drives prices, even in niche hobbies.
I'm sorry but have you ever taken a macroeconomics class? You seem to display an "ideological affinity" to some supply/demand fundamentalism.

Has nothing to do with generation and people with money. People with money will buy the expensive stuff, just like people with money will buy the more expensive shoes/purses. The poor people will always complain about the stuff they can't afford. Old or young.
Class discrimination isn't cool, neither is punching down.
 

Sisterlimonpot

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Has nothing to do with generation and people with money. People with money will buy the expensive stuff, just like people with money will buy the more expensive shoes/purses. The poor people will always complain about the stuff they can't afford. Old or young.
I personally don't think it has to do with wealth, although people with more disposable income may not think twice about throwing $500 at a coral rather than someone who has to live on a budget.

For most people regardless of wealth, it comes down to perspective of value, those that are veterans in the hobby will be more reluctant to pay $500 for a coral that we traded for free or for less than $5 in the past.

Yes there's a little nostalgia there but saying that the price of something has gone up 100 fold in the last 5 years is hard to swallow.
 

Mark3

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It wasn't that long ago that you could get quite a good selection of $5 frags ...not everything was at $5 but you could go in and spend $100 and feel like you got a few things to add to tank....now you can spend more than $100 and not even notice.
 
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