What, if anything, am I doing wrong?

[ksfulk]

So, I've been using the Triton Method for a month solid now (started 07-Nov-2015), and I'm having some issues that I'm having some trouble finding an attributable cause. Since there are several people on the forums that are using this method, as well as having Scott and Joe (@Triton US) here as well, I figured I would lay it all out and see if there was something that I was missing. That said, here is some basic information:

Total system size: 180 gallon display + 150 gallon sump + 36 gallon refugium = 366 gallons total
Water: ~ 300 gallons accounting for displacement
Temperature: 77.8 - 78.4F (Averaging 78.24F)
pH: 8.06 - 8.13
Alk: 8 dKH

Calc: 438 ppm

Nitrates: ~8ppm
Phosphates: Undetectable
Mag: 1318

Lights: 2 - 250w MH (~7 hours daily), 4 - 54w T5s (12 hrs daily)
Refugium: 8 types of macros, 3 mangroves - all showing growth (Ulva removed weekly as export)
Reactors: Carbon (BRS Rox 0.8 carbon, changed ~3 weeks), GFO (recently taken offline)
Oversized skimmer, no filter socks
Base Elementz: 102ml dosed daily (8ml x 6 doses, 9ml x 6 doses) - parts 3a and 3b dosed seperately

Ok, so what Ive seen in the last month is both encouraging and discouraging all at the same time depending on where I look in the tank. Ive had several acros that were doing well, and have taken a sudden turn for the worse, losing tissue from the tips of some:

And others are losing tissue from the base up:

And still others are coloring up and growing extremely well, even if they are right next to a struggling frag!

All these frags were purchased at the same time... nearly all encrusting... then BAM! This ones losing tissue!

Purple Millepora and a shortcake Acro. Millie is losing tissue from the base up, the shortcake has encrusted well, went from dull green to having bright red tips and beautiful green body.

I got my next set of Triton tests in the mail yesterday, so Im sending a new test in tomorrow, hoping to get it back before the German holiday. But Im struggling to figure out what the issue here could be. Ive been bringing up the dosage of Elementz slowly so I can keep the Alk stable, and Ive been doing a decent job at that. I dont have too much of an issue with crystalization at the dosing lines...

The refugium is really taking off, which I would guess why the phosphates are showing all 0's when I test for them, though the nitrates are still ~8 (color between 5 and 12 ppm on the Nysos test kit). I have several different kinds of macros in the fuge, and I dont run filter socks, so I dont think there's any restriction there. None of the livestock I have eat/nip at the coral, and all of my LPS and Zoas seem to be growing well, as does my derasa clam. I cant find any evidence of pests either. Oh, and flow is a gyre 150 running at pulse (80/35%) during the daylight and cuts back to 35% at lights out.

The only thing that Ive changed "recently" is that I took my GFO offline, as I wasnt initially seeing any growth in my fuge. Since then, growth has exploded in the fuge. No nuisance algae (aside from coralline) in the DT.

Thoughts?

 

[hinovak]

I do not do the triton method, so take my advise with a grain of salt, however I have had just about every experience about things going wrong with acros and learning from them. When you mentioned you had great growth and encrusting and then boom, rtn on your acros, it reminds me of a time I had an alk swing. I have had to increase my alk by 20 ml. Dosing within a two week period during, extremely happy growing acros. When acros get real happy, it is amazing how much alk cal and mag consumption will increase. I see that you alk is at 8, which in my opinion is borderline for acros. Your alk my be dropping at night. I try to keep mine at around 9.6 to give me a little wiggle room. Anytime I notice my acros are growing really fast, I try to test alk, mag, and cal. Every two days, to make sure I can keep up. Hope this helps. No matter what you decide the problem is, go about correcting it slowly, I used to freak out and change things right away because I would read something, and it would oftentimes make things worse.

 

[hinovak]

Maybe try testing alk late night also, to see if there is any swing.

 

[ksfulk]

I do not do the triton method, so take my advise with a grain of salt, however I have had just about every experience about things going wrong with acros and learning from them. When you mentioned you had great growth and encrusting and then boom, rtn on your acros, it reminds me of a time I had an alk swing. I have had to increase my alk by 20 ml. Dosing within a two week period during, extremely happy growing acros. When acros get real happy, it is amazing how much alk cal and mag consumption will increase. I see that you alk is at 8, which in my opinion is borderline for acros. Your alk my be dropping at night. I try to keep mine at around 9.6 to give me a little wiggle room. Anytime I notice my acros are growing really fast, I try to test alk, mag, and cal. Every two days, to make sure I can keep up. Hope this helps. No matter what you decide the problem is, go about correcting it slowly, I used to freak out and change things right away because I would read something, and it would oftentimes make things worse.

I appreciate the comment, and typically i would say that alk is the prime suspect, however, the alk has been steady, (which is why i included the graph above, i test alk everyday). Triton method stabilizes alk at 8, which is what i am pretty stable at here. I started the method at 1/2 (~60 ml per day) the recommended dosage and bumped it up slowly as needed to keep the alk at 8 dKH (now Im at 102 ml per day). Measurements in the past month have been between 136 - 143 ppm. So I dont see that as the primary issue.

The whole scenerio is strange as there are acros that are growing like crazy, and others that are clearly in their death throes. Im just wondering if it was attributable to the change in method or perhaps something else. The tank has been up for 8 months, in case that is a concern. And Ive successfully kept SPS before though in smaller tanks and not using this particular method (though I used 2 part systems before with success).

 

[twilliard]

The triton method is best used for a mature reef setup.
What is your no3?
Also did you have a hard time balancing the elementz when first starting?

 

[ksfulk]

The triton method is best used for a mature reef setup.
What is your no3?
Also did you have a hard time balancing the elementz when first starting?

No3 (as stated above) are about 8 ppm (between 5ppm and 12ppm using Nysos testing kit, so limited to their color chart)

I didnt have an issue with balancing, as I started with 1/2 the recommended dosage, since most of my corals are either LPS or SPS frgas and I assumed there wouldnt be near the demand as a mature reef would have. I started at 60ml a day (120ml recommended) and have worked my way up to 102 ml currently. I monitor alk daily, calc/mag/nitrate/phosphate weekly. All are well within desirable range, though phosphate is undetectable, but the growth in the refugium makes a point that the phosphate are present.

 

[kv69]

Are you doing water changes? If so, have you checked your TDS on your RODI?

 

[ksfulk]

Are you doing water changes? If so, have you checked your TDS on your RODI?

No water changes (part of the method). 0 TDS in the RODI used for top off. Topoff goes through about ~1.8 gallons daily.

 

[hinovak]

Hmmm, yeah. If your testing everyday, you are def. staying on top of things. Sorry about that, these are always the worst ones, when all the prime suspects are eliminated, it can be frustrating...

 

[kv69]

I still do a wc every now and then. Only other things I can think of is if you have any metal that may be contaminating the system, or pests.

 

[ksfulk]

Ive looked for pests (flatworms, nudis, etc) and I havent found any, even foing so far as to dip a few frags that arent glued down. Nothing came off in the Bayer dip. That said, I do have several wrasses, so they could be keeping something in check, though I would assume if it were red bugs or AEFW, the tissue loss would be at the base or at the tips, not both.

I havent done any WCs since starting the method (1 month). Prior to November 6th, I was doing a 40 gal change every other week.

I didnt see anything heavy metal wise in my last test, but Ill be sending one off tomorrow to eliminate or point to that as a possibility.

 

[twilliard]

Sorry i was out picking my child up from a birthday party.
This is odd for sure.
You are safe with your no3 and po4
Now i should ask about carbon use.
Has the clarity changed at all?
This is starting to look like a lighting issue if your ALK has been stable

 

[ksfulk]

Sorry i was out picking my child up from a birthday party.
This is odd for sure.
You are safe with your no3 and po4
Now i should ask about carbon use.
Has the clarity changed at all?
This is starting to look like a lighting issue if your ALK has been stable

Clarity of the water? I honestly cant say that Ive noticed a difference in the water clarity. In fact, I only am running carbon out of habit, as I started to use it way back in the beginning of the tank setup when I used a Chemiclean treatment to clear up some Cyano. But that was back in June - I havent used any chemical treatments since. I always ran carbon on my previous tanks, so I did so on this one as well. Any issues with running carbon using this method? I just took a look at the reactor, and the carbon's looking like it should be changed, as the sponges are getting clogged.

As for lights, this is the part of the tank where Im really out of my comfort zone. The MH bulbs (250w DE 14K Phoenix) were installed at the end of July (28th), so I would guess they are still well within their workable life. The T5s were installed in April - ATI Coral + (x2) and ATI Blue + (x2). The fixture hangs ~ 10" up off of the water. The tank is 32" deep. Tissue issues are seen in corals all over the tank, at all depths.

 

[twilliard]

Wow now I am at a loss.
There is something in your water but I think its something triton doesnt detect.
Lets see what your results come back at.

 

[ksfulk]

At least its nothing obvious that Im doing/not doing. Hopefully I can get the test results back before they go on Holiday. Thanks everyone for their help so far!

 

[SPS247]

I tried re-reading twice but I didn't see your salinity level posted. I had similar issue and found my salinity crept way beyond normal levels. Side note you mentioned you added all your frags at the same time. I wouldn't change a thing if you have other frags adjusting well and growing. Just keep staying consistent with whatever method you choose and frag the pieces that don't stop STNing.

 

[ksfulk]

I tried re-reading twice but I didn't see your salinity level posted. I had similar issue and found my salinity crept way beyond normal levels. Side note you mentioned you added all your frags at the same time. I wouldn't change a thing if you have other frags adjusting well and growing. Just keep staying consistent with whatever method you choose and frag the pieces that don't stop STNing.

1.026 checked weekly. I did neglect to post that... good catch!

 

[gpwdr]

KSFULK

I'm sorry to here about whats happening to your corals.

I believe when you get your test back from Germany you will have your answer to the problem(s).

Could you post your test result when it comes in?

Gene

 

[ksfulk]

KSFULK

I'm sorry to here about whats happening to your corals.

I believe when you get your test back from Germany you will have your answer to the problem(s).

Could you post your test result when it comes in?

Gene

Here's hoping! I plan on posting once I have the results back.

Funny story - I tossed the Triton test in the mailbox this morning, and when I came home I found that the envelope was still in the box with a post-it note from my postman stating "No postage included". I panicked and ran back in the house, checking my other Triton test that I bought over the thanksgiving holiday. Finding that it was also missing the postage, I shot an email off the Scott, wondering what had happened. I neglected to realize that the Triton testing no longer includes the postage. Scott emailed me back within ten minutes letting me know of my blunder, so I'll have to swing by the post office tomorrow on my way to work. *Sigh* Its never that easy, right? While I still havent found a smokin gun, there are some corals that are doing quite well. Here are some pictures of the good looking corals and one of the rockin 'fuge:

 

[gpwdr]