What is ACTUALLY going on with Hawaii fish?

Discussion in 'Fish Discussion' started by 4FordFamily, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    It would be very easy to make a spring loaded or powered version of that. In belive it already exists.
     
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  2. NY_Caveman

    NY_Caveman Cave Dweller R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    I have freelanced for several national television news outlets. While I consider them entertainment to a large degree, their standards are usually 2-3 sources and they do their journalistic best.

    Local newscasts not so much. They are only a vehicle for add sales (national channels make more from carrier coverage). The local newscasts usually are about shocking viewers and have little real news. There may be exceptions but I see little journalistic integrity after 25 years in the business. They are probably trying to appeal more to local fishermen (fisher-people?) than hobbyists also.

    To any of their credit, this subject is probably difficult for them too as they do not really get it or its impact.
     
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  3. Jamie7907

    Jamie7907 Well-Known Member

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    No it’s really not. As the collectors get served the notices to stop using small mesh nets no one knows what the impact will be. If we don’t act to protect our interests as hobbyists we may soon lose Hawai as a source for fish for real. Snorkel Bob and others like him are doing everything they can to shut down the trade.
     
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  4. Wh00pS32

    Wh00pS32 Well-Known Member

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    If you go to the Reef Builders article there is a reply at the bottom from one of the Local collecters.
    https://reefbuilders.com/2017/10/30/hawaii-fish-collecting-halted-until-further-review/
    I will paste his reply below for people who don't want to bother visiting the article.

    "
    Somewhat confusing since everyone is saying permits are invalid now yet Ron Tubbs sent out this email early this morning...

    The collection of aquarium fish in Hawaii is not shut down!

    Although Hawaii’s aquarium fishery has lost its small mesh net permit until we get our Hawaii Environmental Protection Act ( HEPA) permit ,we still have our commercial fishing permits and can continue to catch fish under it. That means nets of 2 inch stretch or bigger can be used, and there are at least two other trade secret methods of catching fish I use. Resale of imported fish can also continue.

    We are in the process of filing for the HEPA permit in 30 days at a cost of $50,000 which PJAC is funding. After filing, it may be several months to get our HEPA approval. If there are legal delays it could take much longer. The quickest solution for our sustainable fishery is to fix the state law. It was never meant for ocean regulated permits. It is the ecological friendly courts interpretation of the law that created the issue.

    The million dollar question is how do you collect smaller fish without a small mesh net and still be legal. I have a way, and will building the prototype this week. It has been months in the planning stages but with the ruling now is the time to implement it. How much small fish prices go up depends on how well it works at least with my company. Expect shortages of small fish from Hawaii like flame wrasse, potters etc. Many wrasses though have legal ways to catch them and will be still in stock like christmas wrasse and saddle wrasse etc.

    Support your Hawaii dealer"
     
  5. Robin Haselden

    Robin Haselden Turtle R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    I talked with Colin ZoaCollector last week. He said all nets with an mesh size less than 2" are banned. 2" mesh or larger is fine. Collecting fish is still fine. He also said there are big loop holes as the law only says you cannot use a "net" with a mesh of less than 2"... it says nothing about other methods of collecting. Such as making a corral out of say, a bed sheet and placing a container at the other end and chasing the fish into that. The only thing that's banned are nets with mesh of less than 2". Collecting Hawaiian fish is still legal, for now.
     
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  6. EJReef

    EJReef Well-Known Member

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    Figure out how to breed them- the more responsible thing to do.
     
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  7. eatbreakfast

    eatbreakfast Fish Nerd Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Showcase Editor Expert Contributor Partner Member Partner Member 2018

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    Not really. Responsible, sustainable fishing is one of the most beneficial things for the health of a reef. It keeps locals vested in the health of a reef. It helps those farther away be educated and interested in the health of reefs across the world.
     
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  8. TL Reefs

    TL Reefs Well-Known Member

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    People are acting like this is no big deal and fish collecting will continue as normal, but that is not the case. The mesh nets are also referred to as gill nets. That's because they are designed to trap a fish by the gills and suffocate it. Hawaii fish collectors generally use a small mesh net, so that the fish cannot get it's head into the mesh and get stuck. They use the small mesh net as a fence to guide the fish into a corral where they can grab them and put in a bucket, and 3/8" mesh is the standard size. A 2" mesh is huge! You're likely to only catch like huge naso tangs and parrotfish with a mesh that size. They probably won't die from getting their gills caught because the diver is there to free them immediately, but most fish will simply swim right through it.
    The Hawaii fish collectors may be keeping a positive attitude and not letting the man get them down, but that doesn't mean their livelihood has not been hugely impacted.
     
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  9. dale sarver

    dale sarver Member

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    The push against aquarium collectors has been going on for years. Lately they hot the courts to stop the Department of Aquatic Resources from giving out any new one year permits. The Supreme Court kicked it back to the lower court to deal with the details of managing the details. The idea behind all this is that the DAR did not study the industry for its effect on the environment before giving out the permits. So now the DAR has to do an Environmental Impact Statement to prove the industry is sustainable. And the lower court has also changed direction and cancelled all the permits so none can be collected until the EIS is accepted. There are rumblings of law suits and challenges but don't expect anything of substance happening anytime soon.
    It a stupid decision by the court but not unusual for Hawaii. Lab reared fish can still be sold but there are precious few of those.
     
  10. Forsaken77

    Forsaken77 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if a "trade secret" includes cyaniding the fish? I can see collectors resorting to unscrupulous methods like that. These are peoples' livelihoods. As long as they have fish to sell, they get paid. I hope it doesn't come to that.

    Maybe they can make a giant trap box to drop down in the reef.
     
  11. dale sarver

    dale sarver Member

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    It is a huge deal for those in the industry, which is now pretty much dead. Some will go back to fishing food fish but hardly anyone can make a living doing that here anymore. Maybe someone can pull a rabbit out of the hat but it is dire for a lot of folks.
     
  12. dale sarver

    dale sarver Member

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    All permits have been cancelled. No new ones to be issued until an EIS is done and accepted. Some noise about law suits etc., but the chances of restarting the industry is a long ordeal at best.
     
  13. EJReef

    EJReef Well-Known Member

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    If it’s truly sustainable and humane I don’t have a problem with it
     
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  14. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Well geez what a vast array of opinion on this one! I think I’m more confused than when i started the thread!
     
  15. dale sarver

    dale sarver Member

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    An aquarium collector needs two permits. One is a general commercial fishing permit that is for anyone selling fish of any kind. An aquarium collector is tied to the small mesh net permit as the general fishing rules are only for large mesh sizes. These large nets do not really work for aquarium fish collectors as they are targeting the small young fish. I suppose someone could try and sneak around the rules and use the big nets or some other trick like traps or whatever. But probably could not make it work economically and I expect the anti-collecting folks and courts would sue to outlaw those too. So now everyone is waiting to see what law suits will come next.
     
  16. Newb73

    Newb73 Well-Known Member Partner Member 2018

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    When it comes to covering health care the accuracy rate for news is about 10% of the details.

    I have seen little reason to believe that they are any more accurate with other subjects.
     
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  17. shred5

    shred5 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    The hobby will eventually be banned from collecting in Hawaii. They have tried 4 or 5 times already and each time they get closer. Eventually the collector's will eventually give in because it won't be worth the fight. It might not be this a year or next but it will be.

    Collecting of fish and coral has been banned in allot of places already, it just has not had a major impact yet.

    When I first got in the reef hobby a very long time ago live rock in the states mainly came from the keys and Hawaii. Hawaii was the first place to shut down live rock collecting. Next came the keys which we thought might be the end, but it wasn't. It was the end of really high quality and cheap priced rock.

    I think Hawaii will go and soon after will be collecting in the Caribbean. Any one who dives will tell your the Caribbean reefs are in real trouble with very little acropora and other reef building coral there are less spots for fish to hide. The Caribbean reefs are becoming just fields of gorgonians. The other issue is the lionfish is just reducing fish population. Just a matter of time.
     
  18. EJReef

    EJReef Well-Known Member

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    According to what?
     
  19. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    Responsible is the challenge.

    Not a common human trait imo.
    Most buffalo and tuna agree.
     
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  20. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    It's going off topic, but related.

    Nobody cares super man movies were made in Australia and captain America was made in Canada and wonderwoman was made in England.
    Economic models and trends change over time. Just like with whaling.

    Mostly I had hoped the socio political, economic debate and opinion wouldn't surface.

    Really wondering about the actual processing of facts. If we have them.
    It might be a good idea to know them rather than speculate and pontificate.

    Myself. If the population IS actually in trouble. I can do without an ornament. I stopped using rhino horn a long time ago. Jus sayin.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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