What is ACTUALLY going on with Hawaii fish?

[eatbreakfast]

Do you have that info by chance or the link I find it?

Honestly I think that's what we're looking for here in the thread.

If there are other independent studies done that would be good as well.


Most of the admittedly few wildlife surveys I've seen are are pretty black and white. How many years , how many animals. Etc.

I don't have the link off hand. I believe somebody posted a link to the DNR surveys in another thread on either the Hawaii issues or sustainable collection, or captive vs wild fish, but I haven't had the time to look.

Import manifests chronicle how many ornamentals are brought in to the U.S. each year and can also find how much commercial food fish are imported as well. That requires a bit more homework, but commercial fishing is bringing in tons of fish per shipment, ornamental fish trade is bringing boxfuls. So the difference is stark between the two, and so is the environmental impact.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I don't have the link off hand. I believe somebody posted a link to the DNR surveys in another thread on either the Hawaii issues or sustainable collection, or captive vs wild fish, but I haven't had the time to look.

Import manifests chronicle how many ornamentals are brought in to the U.S. each year and can also find how much commercial food fish are imported as well. That requires a bit more homework, but commercial fishing is bringing in tons of fish per shipment, ornamental fish trade is bringing boxfuls. So the difference is stark between the two, and so is the environmental impact.

Cool thanks. I found some but.....

I do get the difference. Still always worth looking at to actually make an informed decision. I read about Walt smith for years and his process and how that country evolved its policy and the actual exact sources he had to cite and provide to them.
He was flamed for collecting dry rock and selling it "raping nature "
He was collecting it roadside.

I'm actually completely neutral on the subject.
I want the hobby to continue, I want nature to as well. But I'll choose nature if it's deemed good science to stop collecting.

 

[saltyhog]

Cool thanks. I found some but.....

I do get the difference. Still always worth looking at to actually make an informed decision. I read about Walt smith for years and his process and how that country evolved its policy and the actual exact sources he had to cite and provide to them.
He was flamed for collecting dry rock and selling it "raping nature "
He was collecting it roadside.

I'm actually completely neutral on the subject.
I want the hobby to continue, I want nature to as well. But I'll choose nature if it's deemed good science to stop collecting.

This is pretty convincing evidence of the sustainability of the Hawaii fishery.

https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dar/files/2015/01/ar_hrs188_2015.pdf

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

This is pretty convincing evidence of the sustainability of the Hawaii fishery.

https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dar/files/2015/01/ar_hrs188_2015.pdf

Awesome sauce!!

 

[2tanker]

I hold a commercial permit in Hawaii. This is the letter I recieved...

 

[Young@Heart]

Talked to one of my LFS yesterday, 1 employee indicated he was expecting increases over the next several months (is he hearing something from his supplier - idk - but he did interject while I was talking to the owner - so take that for what it is) for the yellow tang and and some others.

I went for the smaller Blond Naso and the Yellow Tang because I wanted to be sure that they had more than enough room to grow (got a 180 Gallon Tank). I was also hoping that I would "get everybody" into the tank when they were small and thereby "keep the bullying and territorial mentality" - in check - maybe wishful thinking on my part. But one of my other LFS has my Yellow Tang (and will QT him for a month) they should have my Naso next week and then put him into QT too. I accelerated my livestock procurement plan a bit because of this, but I really wanted the small fish so I could watch them grow and be happy. BTW my live stock list is:

1 Tomato Clownfish
1 Ocellaris Clownfish
1 Dwarf Angelfish
1 6 Line Wrasse (newest addition) - went into the tank after acclimation he went into hiding
1 Cleaner Shrimp
2 Conch Snails
5 Snails (Names escape me at the moment (it is 3:55 am)
1 Torch Coral
1 Keyna Tree Coral
1 Plate Coral
8 various types of Zoa frags

No matter what actual types (sizes) of fish are being affected (I am no economist): I think you will see at least modest increases in prices for fish from the area around HI - If for no other reason than Supply and Demand (What the market will bear) - and perception has a role in that (after all the fisherman are in this to make a profit). Just look at me - I accelerated my plans for two fish because of this.

From talking to my LFS: Australia has already implemented a ban like the one in HI and Vietnam is next on the list - I don't know. I def. agree that we need a thread focused on this issue.

 

[siggy]

I think this is the their Point.
The no-aquarium collecting Fish Replenishment Areas (FRAs), implemented in 1999, have been very successful in increasing populations of Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens) which is the most heavily targeted aquarium fish accounting for 84% of the total catch. Fifteen years after closure, the population of Yellow Tang has increased 64.5% in the FRAs while its abundance in the Open Areas has not declined significantly

Michigan DNR refused to address the presence of Wolverines and Cougars in the state, it wasn't until Photographic proof along with DNA and other convincing evidence did they acknowledge the WILD presence of of these
animales. It wasn't the biologist or scientist refusing to accept this but the Director and executive board due to funding a new department to monitor and study each species, which would require additional funding, biologist etc.

 

[Maritimer]

This is pretty convincing evidence of the sustainability of the Hawaii fishery.

https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dar/files/2015/01/ar_hrs188_2015.pdf

This report provides some fascinating data, backing up something I've long suspected - while the population of yellow tangs has increased, the achilles tang is facing a different fortune:

"Achilles Tang has had low levels of recruitment over the past decade and substantial numbers of larger fish (i.e. ‘breeders’) are taken for human consumption.
Achilles Tang is the only species on the ‘White List’ which is listed as an “Ecologically Unsustainable Species” by the Sustainable Aquarium Industry Association (SAIA) and monitoring data suggest there should be concern for the sustained abundance of this species."

"Both the Open Areas and FRAs permit all fishers (excepting aquarium collectors) almost unrestricted take of herbivores such as surgeonfishes and parrotfishes with few size limits (all minimum sizes) and no bag limits. In contrast, the MPAs have additional restrictions affecting herbivore take including a few highly protected or no-take areas. Other types of fishing (i.e. food fishing) are likely responsible for observed differences between these areas and the more protected MPAs."

Based on this, my suspicions that achilles tangs' being heavily targeted by the food fishery, and that their populations have been negatively affected because of that appear to be correct. (Also based on this, I've just become more inclined to hold off on acquiring an achilles for my 220 - along with the fact that the tank seems more "full" than my 65 ever did, with a very similar number and size range of fish!)

Also, interesting to note that "Aquarium Collectors" face strict bag limits and "bracket sizing" limits on many species of fish, while folks killing them outright do not.

~Bruce

 

[saltyhog]

Well said Bruce! Wish Achilles didn't taste good!

I think the other factors with the Achilles are that they thrive in surge zones with a large amount of flow where other tangs like Naso and Yellows are pretty much equally concentrated throughout the reef. There is simply not as much of their habitat as the other herbivores. The other thing is that the surge zones (at least the places I've seen Achilles) were more shallow and nearer to shore possibly making them more accessible to subsistence fishermen.

Interestingly Gold Rims are somewhat similar in where you see them but seem to be doing a little better.

 

[Sashaka]

Unfortunately there’s lots of evidence that captive grown have a much higher carbon footprint and negative impact.

I'm sorry. I don't understand. Can you explain what this means?

 

[Instigate]

I'm sorry. I don't understand. Can you explain what this means?

I believe he's talking about the resources used and waste created by captive breading being more than if you just collected from the ocean.

 

[LbulletM]

I mean... if you just stack three 2" nets to create ~0.5" holes, aren't you technically following the rules?

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Greasy discussion!

 

[saltyhog]

I mean... if you just stack three 2" nets to create ~0.5" holes, aren't you technically following the rules?

You sly devil you! I hadn't considered that possibility. As long as thou didn't physically alter the nets by connecting them, I guess you would not be violating the law, just the spirit of the law.

 

[LbulletM]

You sly devil you! I hadn't considered that possibility. As long as thou didn't physically alter the nets by connecting them, I guess you would not be violating the law, just the spirit of the law.

I think I might live by "better to ask forgiveness than permission" entirely too often.

 

[LbulletM]

From a link that was in a Coral Magazine article: https://www.reef2rainforest.com/201...-aquarium-fishery-closed-permits-invalidated/

 

[4FordFamily]

I believe he's talking about the resources used and waste created by captive breading being more than if you just collected from the ocean.

Yes this. In addition, the electricity needed and other resources.

 

[4FordFamily]

From a link that was in a Coral Magazine article: https://www.reef2rainforest.com/201...-aquarium-fishery-closed-permits-invalidated/

Ridiculous and frustrating. I also hate reading things like this. I deal with judgments, trusts, and attorneys too much in my line of work!

 

[powers2001]

Is this the first time PIJAC has funded such a critical study? And following.

 

[eatbreakfast]

http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiine...contentguid=od:a4KmWTMR#.WhVMZglA9io.facebook