What is this and how do I treat?

[TrishK]

I’ve dosed Furan 2 five times with 2 water changes in between so far and it has gotten smaller than shown in this picture but looking at him today (didn’t get a new pic as I didn’t have my phone on me) he appears to have two new smaller spots that look the same closer to his tail so whatever it is the Furan 2 isn’t helping completely.

I got him about 3 weeks ago along with a Pearlscale butterfly and a swallowtail. The swallowtail was in quarantine separately and I didn’t notice anything on her until it was too late. This one is together with the Pearlscale because they were to go in the same fish only tank. The Pearlscale has been fine, no marks, crazy appetite and even this one is eating fine still. What should I do at this point? I looked back at pictures when I first got these fish and this one had a small reddish spot where it is now. The Swallowtail did not.

Here is a current pic with spots circled

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That’s the trouble with trying to ID diseases with just a picture: this looks like Uronema, but if it were that, the fish wouldn’t have lasted this long. Can you post a new picture, as well as your water quality data?
Jay

 

[TrishK]

Hi Jay
I sent the pic to Bluezoo and they said they thought Uronema as well and told me to treat with Furan 2. The last fish we got from them was ages ago and was 6 chromis which all had Uronema and were all dead within a week. Different QT than we used with them plus we’ve had lots of fish in this tank since then with no illnesses. But it’s very strange the Swallowtail seemed to die very quickly even though we never had them with the butterfly fish...bluezoo may have all their fish on same water system. I don’t know. Water parameters are perfect though and this fish came with the spot. That first picture I went back and looked it was the same day I got them so he definitely came with the spot. This is a current pic. He won’t sit still. I just vacuumed up the tank some and he was busy pecking at stuff off the glass bottom.

 

[TrishK]

I have a healthy wrasse coming out of QT in another tank and think I’ll be putting the Pearlscale in there for another 4 weeks just to make sure he doesn’t come down with it, whatever it is. I do know it looks just like what the Swallowtail had and he died within a day of me first noticing the spot. I’ve had all 3 since Oct 20th so only 2 weeks I’ve had them I guess. Seems longer! I do know that it doesn’t look the same as the Uronema the chromis had, which was bloody streaks. This looks more like a raised whitish spot with a little pink.

 

[TrishK]

Here’s a short video. Don’t mind the dirty bottom, I just stirred stuff up and it’s starting to settle again so I need to go in for another vacuum.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

While it looks like Uronema, it isn't acting like it has it in the video. I wonder if it is just a bacterial disease that wasn't susceptible to furan? You could try a different antibiotic. If you want to do some more research on Uronemas, here is an excerpt from my upcoming disease book:

Uronema marinum (Red band disease)



Cause

Uronema is an elongate, oval, ciliated, motile protozoan, up to 40 um in length, that can become an opportunistic pathogen in marine aquariums. Because it is so generic-looking, identification in the field is always provisional. Most professional aquarists actually mean “Uronema-like” when they say “Uronema.”



Uronema infections have been seen in six families of fishes (in roughly descending order of frequency): Pomacentridae (damselfishes, specifically of the genus Chromis); Serranidae (subfamily Anthiinae the Anthias); Syngnathidae (seahorses and seadragons); Labridae (the wrasses); Chaetodontidae (the butterflyfishes); and, occasionally, Pomacanthidae (the angelfishes). There are, no doubt, other species of fish that can be infected.



Symptoms

This moderately common protozoan disease has symptoms that include the rapid development of a red mark in the hypodermis (fat and muscle) region of the fish, often following rows of scales so that the lesion is typically elongate and angled downward as it progresses front to back along the flank of the fish. Within a day or two of the development of the primary lesion, the fish will become lethargic and stop feeding and its respiration rate will increase. Scales above the lesion can be dislodged easily due to the massive trauma to the underlying tissue. Death follows rapidly, with few fish surviving beyond three days after the primary lesion develops.

Almost universally, aquarists who do not have access to a microscope will identify this disease as a “secondary bacterial infection resulting from some injury.” In fact, “capture damage” is often cited as the original cause due to the often-linear nature of the lesion, which looks much like a bruise from being hit with a net frame, for example. The rapid onset of the lesion (often many days after capture) and the fact that it develops internally and then erupts externally both point to another cause.



Treatment

A variety of treatments have been suggested for Uronema infections, but full control is rarely seen following most of these treatments. Part of the issue seems to be that Uronema is ubiquitous (naturally occurring in marine aquariums) and re-infection is commonplace.



Bath treatments may fail because the medication used does not target the intercellular protozoans, only those living externally on the skin of the fish. Copper treatments may reduce the numbers of these ciliates, but good control is not seen until ionic copper levels reach 0.23 ppm, and this is too close to the lethal limit for many species of fish. Formalin baths of various concentrations and durations have been proposed, but this treatment is also mostly effective against external protozoans.



The most commonly used treatment is chloroquine at 15 ppm for 30 days.



Hyposalinity and Uronema

A suspiciously high occurrence of Uronema outbreaks is seen in marine fish being kept under hyposalinity (low salinity) to control another protozoan parasite, Cryptocaryon irritans (saltwater ich). It seems that either Uronema prefers low-salinity water or such treatments lower the fish’s resistance to the protozoan.



Jay

 

[TrishK]

While it looks like Uronema, it isn't acting like it has it in the video. I wonder if it is just a bacterial disease that wasn't susceptible to furan? You could try a different antibiotic. If you want to do some more research on Uronemas, here is an excerpt from my upcoming disease book:

Uronema marinum (Red band disease)



Cause

Uronema is an elongate, oval, ciliated, motile protozoan, up to 40 um in length, that can become an opportunistic pathogen in marine aquariums. Because it is so generic-looking, identification in the field is always provisional. Most professional aquarists actually mean “Uronema-like” when they say “Uronema.”



Uronema infections have been seen in six families of fishes (in roughly descending order of frequency): Pomacentridae (damselfishes, specifically of the genus Chromis); Serranidae (subfamily Anthiinae the Anthias); Syngnathidae (seahorses and seadragons); Labridae (the wrasses); Chaetodontidae (the butterflyfishes); and, occasionally, Pomacanthidae (the angelfishes). There are, no doubt, other species of fish that can be infected.



Symptoms

This moderately common protozoan disease has symptoms that include the rapid development of a red mark in the hypodermis (fat and muscle) region of the fish, often following rows of scales so that the lesion is typically elongate and angled downward as it progresses front to back along the flank of the fish. Within a day or two of the development of the primary lesion, the fish will become lethargic and stop feeding and its respiration rate will increase. Scales above the lesion can be dislodged easily due to the massive trauma to the underlying tissue. Death follows rapidly, with few fish surviving beyond three days after the primary lesion develops.

Almost universally, aquarists who do not have access to a microscope will identify this disease as a “secondary bacterial infection resulting from some injury.” In fact, “capture damage” is often cited as the original cause due to the often-linear nature of the lesion, which looks much like a bruise from being hit with a net frame, for example. The rapid onset of the lesion (often many days after capture) and the fact that it develops internally and then erupts externally both point to another cause.



Treatment

A variety of treatments have been suggested for Uronema infections, but full control is rarely seen following most of these treatments. Part of the issue seems to be that Uronema is ubiquitous (naturally occurring in marine aquariums) and re-infection is commonplace.



Bath treatments may fail because the medication used does not target the intercellular protozoans, only those living externally on the skin of the fish. Copper treatments may reduce the numbers of these ciliates, but good control is not seen until ionic copper levels reach 0.23 ppm, and this is too close to the lethal limit for many species of fish. Formalin baths of various concentrations and durations have been proposed, but this treatment is also mostly effective against external protozoans.



The most commonly used treatment is chloroquine at 15 ppm for 30 days.



Hyposalinity and Uronema

A suspiciously high occurrence of Uronema outbreaks is seen in marine fish being kept under hyposalinity (low salinity) to control another protozoan parasite, Cryptocaryon irritans (saltwater ich). It seems that either Uronema prefers low-salinity water or such treatments lower the fish’s resistance to the protozoan.



Jay

Thanks for all the great info!!! In the video where you see the marks is that a common place for Uronema? I’m thinking my Chromis had it near their top fins and it was bloody looking streaks. A few died and didn’t have any marks at all.

I think I read it’s safe to combine Metroplex and Furan 2? Should I try that first? I also have some fritz aquatics maracyn 2. Thanks for the help.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Metroplex would help if you think it is Uronema, the Maracyn 2 is an antibiotic you could try. What about a water change to get rid of the furan then try both?
Jay

 

[TrishK]

Btw this is where the mark was on the swallowtail, which does seem more like Uronema to me. What do you think? That tank is sitting empty and we probably need to bleach it if it was Uronema...maybe we need to if was bacterial too, I don’t know, never encountered that issue before.

 

[TrishK]

Dose the Metroplex and the Mac 2 at the same time? How big of a water change would you suggest? It’s a 30G

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think you can dose metro and Maracyn 2 at the same time with no issues. I can’t really say how much of a water change you’ll need to dilute the furan- a couple of 25% changes for sure.

Jay

 

[TrishK]

I think you can dose metro and Maracyn 2 at the same time with no issues. I can’t really say how much of a water change you’ll need to dilute the furan- a couple of 25% changes for sure.

Jay

Looking at the pics of the Swallowtail above do you think that was Uronema? I guess I need to know if I need to empty and bleach that tank and start cycling it again before getting fish for it.

 

[TrishK]

Also....here is a pic from today...really just pink spots. I just don’t know.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have faith in maracyn 2 for broad and secondary infection. If this fish was in copper, it’s possible that These internal bumps may be associated with copper sensitivity and is a skin reaction to copper which happens with tangs. Since this is post-treatment I am nearly certain it’s not

 

[TrishK]

I have faith in maracyn 2 for broad and secondary infection. If this fish was in copper, it’s possible that These internal bumps may be associated with copper sensitivity and is a skin reaction to copper which happens with tangs. Since this is post-treatment I am nearly certain it’s not

Yeah I’m not sure if bluezoo ever had them copper. I know I have not. Since I already have Furan 2 in the tank I’m going to combine it with Metro. If that doesn’t do the trick I will use Marcyan instead

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Looking at the pics of the Swallowtail above do you think that was Uronema? I guess I need to know if I need to empty and bleach that tank and start cycling it again before getting fish for it.

Yes - that could have been Uronema on the swallowtail, or bacteria or both. You do not need to sterilize a tank due to these two particular issues as those pathogens are found in every established aquarium, and they just get started due to the fish having some other underlying issue.

Jay