Who do you trust / when to skip quarantine

[chipmunkofdoom2]

AlgaeBarn raises live stock in tanks that have had nothing wild for years and should therefore be clean. Reef cleaners has fish free systems, so their inverts shouldn't be carrying fish diseases.

Do folks who follows the "QT anything wet" philosophy trust those vendors enough to make exceptions when restocking CUC? Any other vendors folks trust?

I'm asking because I usually buy from AlgaeBarn, but they've been out of the inverts I want for a while, so I'm shopping around.

What about BIOTA and ORA tank bred fish? Does anyone who usually QTs stuff from the LFS skip QT for those?

This is a great example of a cognitive bias called the authority bias, authority fallacy, or the appeal to authority fallacy. The idea is that there are trustworth authorities (Algaebarn, Biota, Battlecorals, ORA, Jason Fox, etc), and these authorities are perfect or always 100% trustworthy because of their authority. The truth is that while these authorities are probably very good at what they do and are probably almost entirely trustworthy, they're still human. They make mistakes just like everyone else. They should not be given a blank check of our trust just because they have a good track record or lots of experience.

All it takes is one AEFW to make it undetected into Battlecorals' or Jason Fox's system, and they could ship you corals that inadvertently nuke your tank. All it takes is for one drop of water with ich to fly from a QT tank at Algae Barn to their "clean" chaeto tank; then the macro they send you will be anything but clean. All it takes is one speck of velvet to come in undetected on a new broodstock pair at ORA to infect every system they have. At the end of the day, these aren't superheroes running these places. They're very competent, but still totally prone to failure, humans.

I've order fish from ORA and Biota almost exclusively and have never received a sick fish. The last coral order I got from Adam at Battlecorals was squeaky clean as expected. I always verify in QT. I have too much invested in my aquarium to trust anyone else with its fate.

 

[Marc2952]

Im not %100 sure about reefcleaners since i was ich free for over 6 months and 5 days after adding some emerald crabs i got ich. I dont know any other way to explain it since i havent added anything to my tank. I did buy some fish from TSM which i will receive in a week and ive heard nothing but great stuff from them.

 

[attilak]

Skipping QT is never an option ... the ONLY time I have skipped is when I purchase from TSM as I live near them and see how they do things - talked to them about their QT process, etc.

Don't get me wrong - QT is a pain, but nothing is worse then dealing with a sick fish that now contaminated your tank! I learned the hard way and anyone that has said they never had issues adding new fish to a display tank is just lucky... and good for them.

 

[Trever]

I have less than $150 of fish in my tank, and it's now "full". In a year, I might get a mandarin gobby, but we move in a year so not sure if I will be able to move the tank or have to tear it down and start over.

The point is there can be reasons to skip QT, it seems to me.

I want to get some experience and get things going sanely, and have a reliable source (LFS). Of course, theoretically always QT. But in my present circumstances, it makes sense to throw some caution to the wind and "go for it".

What I don't understand is people who think QT is not necessary. It always is, AFAICT. That's just basic biology. In my situation, I've decided to trust my LFS's QT, but ordinarily or with a mature tank, etc., I would never do that. So for me, yes it's necessary, and yes, right now I've skipped doing it myself.

 

[pseudorand]

This is a great example of a cognitive bias called the authority bias, authority fallacy, or the appeal to authority fallacy. The idea is that there are trustworth authorities (Algaebarn, Biota, Battlecorals, ORA, Jason Fox, etc), and these authorities are perfect or always 100% trustworthy because of their authority. The truth is that while these authorities are probably very good at what they do and are probably almost entirely trustworthy, they're still human. They make mistakes just like everyone else. They should not be given a blank check of our trust just because they have a good track record or lots of experience.

All it takes is one AEFW to make it undetected into Battlecorals' or Jason Fox's system, and they could ship you corals that inadvertently nuke your tank. All it takes is for one drop of water with ich to fly from a QT tank at Algae Barn to their "clean" chaeto tank; then the macro they send you will be anything but clean. All it takes is one speck of velvet to come in undetected on a new broodstock pair at ORA to infect every system they have. At the end of the day, these aren't superheroes running these places. They're very competent, but still totally prone to failure, humans.

I've order fish from ORA and Biota almost exclusively and have never received a sick fish. The last coral order I got from Adam at Battlecorals was squeaky clean as expected. I always verify in QT. I have too much invested in my aquarium to trust anyone else with its fate.

This must mean that you reject the entire premis of and business model of AlgaeBarn and others who sell microorganisms and live food, correct? You can't QT copopods and brine shrimp.

 

[G Santana]

I haven't bought anything reef fish related in 20 plus years. Back then everything was cheap/inexpensive and really hardy.
I never QTd and I never got anything that would rise to the level of Epidemics that I see in hobbyists reefs today.
I am weeks away from starting my tank and I have every intention on running livestock through QT.
I have never heard of and don't understand how we as a hobby have gotten to this point but you really can't take chances when you have significant investment in the hobby we love.
One thing I have learned while reading through many posts is how to QT effectively.
Why roll the dice with your pets.

 

[brandon429]

This is the only time discussing fish disease qt I haven’t seen ten posters with excellent tanks decry the practice, show their reefs, and state if you just feed real seafood you can skip qt like they have for 20 years. The masses are setting up dry start systems and need a better plan to keep things alive and disease free if poss

 

[primoleo]

I've seen a video on Jason Foxs setup and qt practices and would definitely feel comfortable putting any of his livestock right in the display tank

Coralwise... JF himself told me there's no need to dip or qt his corals, and I trust him. But I understand this is very personal choice. I would also trust WWC. They both have too much of a good reputation and too much of expensive and huge livestock to allow any pest in their systems and ship infested corals to customers. They would lose livestock and reputation and I believe they do everything in their power to minimize this, much better than I could do at home.

 

[Seaspirit]

My clownfish was one of the first things to go in my tank once it was cycled. I noticed some coloration missing off the white in his pattern, almost like little divet holes. I didnt think any thing of it really just some birth defect. So in he went. I got some zoas from lfs and they had green little what I thought to be sweepers hahaha so in they went, they were covered pretty good in aptasia that someone had clipped real short. Got some more corals and 2 firefish, all from lfs so far. Got some live rock also from lfs it was green and covered in green hair algae, I thought that meant it was a good rock to have so much life on it haha. So I got some clean up crew, a lawnmower blenny and some hermit crabs, some snails, a banded coral shrimp. Things are going good just some residual diatom outbreak and now the hair algae. The clownfish starts scratching in the sand, then the firefish follow. Went on vacation picked up a tube anemone and rockflower nem get them in the tank and a couple days later I see red goo in the sand all around my tube anemone, which I thought could be some war slime from the tube nem fighting frogspawn and other aggressive corals in the tank bahaha and a few more days the slime is about a 4 inch circle around and spreading, im still dealing with it, cyanobacteria. So then my clown starts getting these red bumps under his lip and becoming sluggish, theyre all still scratching in the sand and my firefish are yawning so I post a thread on here asking for help and someone suggested it might be flukes. So I did a freshwater dip until I made my mind up to use chemicals or not. I end up getting api general cure. Dosed and followed directions accordingly. The next day my clown seems braindead and doesn't eat the following days staying hid in the rocks. My firefish are fine as is everything else. My clown passes in about a week, didnt eat until the day before he died and under blue light I could see a faint white glow line from his lip to his gill.

I'm so sorry, Zilly. What an awful and sad story. You are working so hard to fix it all! Good job cleaning it up!

 

[Jilly92]

I'm so sorry, Zilly. What an awful and sad story. You are working so hard to fix it all! Good job cleaning it up!

Thank you very much

 

[Flux Capacitor]

I trust Elliot from Marine Collectors and New Wave Aquaria (mpls MN)

I just purchased a tang from New Wave, had the worst flukes I’ve ever seen. Lost the poor little guy. I always quarantine all my fish no matter where it’s from.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I just purchased a tang from New Wave, had the worst flukes I’ve ever seen. Lost the poor little guy.

dang... Good to know though, thanks for the heads up!