Why do all these corals have ridiculous names?

[shadesatsetbreak]

It lets you identify what it’s going to look like including color. Just like dogs; there is no species of dog that is specifically a German Sheppard or yellow lab, etc. ; all domesticated dogs are Canis lupus familiaris, but making vendor names makes it easier to identify what exactly you’re getting.

I don't mind if they want to come up with creative names for colors, but they treat every Acropora as "acro". Most couldn't tell you if it's digitata or millepora or humilis and it's these distinctions I'm looking for- I don't expect the biotope to be absolutely perfect with matching. Phenotypic variations make up as many names as you want like they do with dogs. Speciation is an entirely different story. Dog argument kinda supports my griping more than dismisses it.

Anyways, is LiveAquariua the only place that lists species or are there other vendors out there that dont give the colorname gimmick?

 

[hyprc]

The only names that hold weight are WWC and Tyree-seems like they’re the ones ones that actually have exclusivity to them (ie no copycats). At least, that I’ve come across in the past 5 years.

There are exceptions and renames all over the place... many threads over the years discussing this, especially with acros.

 

[ScottR]

I don't mind if they want to come up with creative names for colors, but they treat every Acropora as "acro". Most couldn't tell you if it's digitata or millepora or humilis and it's these distinctions I'm looking for- I don't expect the biotope to be absolutely perfect with matching. Phenotypic variations make up as many names as you want like they do with dogs. Speciation is an entirely different story. Dog argument kinda supports my griping more than dismisses it.

Anyways, is LiveAquariua the only place that lists species or are there other vendors out there that dont give the colorname gimmick?

I’d say most vendors specify if it’s an acro or stylo or monti, etc. Again, the name is given to specify type in the hobby. Once you learn the names of the corals, you’ll see why. An example being dragon soul favia. It’s a favia and specified as such. Do they include the Latin name? No. But that’s what we call it. It works for most of us.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

I don't know if you'll find it helpful or not, but there is quite a bit of info at http://www.coralsoftheworld.org/page/home/ regarding coral taxonomy. For me, I do well at the genus level but when it comes to species it becomes too difficult to determine all but the well known and familiar ones. I think many of our online vendors and hobbyists have the same issue which is why you don't see the Latin names.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

Aha - all this time I've been trying to remember this website - it has what you are looking for!

https://www.garretts-acropolis.com/

Steve Garrett's operation and story is amazing. I wish I could grow corals outside.

 

[Scolymite Is My Name]

To be honest I always just figured all the coral sellers just took a hint from the naming “techniques” all the weed guys were doing. I mean, i could definitely envision a “Granddaddy Purple Acro”

 

[naterealbig]

I don't mind if they want to come up with creative names for colors, but they treat every Acropora as "acro". Most couldn't tell you if it's digitata or millepora or humilis and it's these distinctions I'm looking for

Anyways, is LiveAquariua the only place that lists species or are there other vendors out there that dont give the colorname gimmick?

I don't know the answer to your question. What I can tell you is Live Aquaria is not an exception to the generalization you made at the beginning of your post. They also routinely have the incorrect species name listed for corals.

I will reiterate that the "new" naming "convention" is a matter of convenience more than anything. With names, you know exactly what you are getting without having to see a picture (particularly for thread titles where pictures cannot be posted), or having to read through what would end up being a very long description of a corals coloration.

 

[Ridgeway]

Why ?

The first reason is because many of the specific (SP) species name are not known, by the collector, the coral farmer, the importer or the LFS. Some are just colour morphs whilst others could actually be individual SP.

Then we are lazy and rarely use the correct latin names for corals or fish.

So we need easy to remember names that help describe what we think a coral resembles in our minds, oh and someone needs to make a few $$$

 

[flsalty]

I hear a lot of mention of marketing hooplah here, but i also think the naming facilitates a very easy description of unique corals within the same species.

Can you imagine have to say "The tenuis with peach/pink branches, orange polyps that fade to yellow as you get closer to growth tips, with blue coralites, and a yellow mat " every time you wanted to talk about your WD??

But that's not the general complaint. The complaint is that vendors don't mention the species. I just checked a bunch of vendors and most don't list WD as a tenuis. Very few named acropora are listed by species name. My guess is most vendors don't even know the name. If they are going to sell a little piece of coral for 500 bucks they should figure out what it is. As it is, we have to rely on fellow hobbyists to figure out what they are.

Like the OP I have a specific list of acros I want. It's very difficult to match up species with comic book names. At some point I'll probably have to post a list and hope someone out there knows.

 

[motortrendz]

This has been an ongoing and worsening trend over the last few years. @Battlecorals is one of the few that still does.

And honestly I think its partly because they (vendors) dont want to put in the time to identify the actual genus of the coral. And #2 the frags are so small that you really cant tell what they are until they grow into atleast a mini colony bc all the super colored frags you see are the colorful tips of a growth segment and may not even look that way when grown out.

Btw welcome to r2r, other than this sore subject, it's a wonderful site to get great infromation.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

I don't mind if they want to come up with creative names for colors, but they treat every Acropora as "acro". Most couldn't tell you if it's digitata or millepora or humilis and it's these distinctions I'm looking for- I don't expect the biotope to be absolutely perfect with matching. Phenotypic variations make up as many names as you want like they do with dogs. Speciation is an entirely different story. Dog argument kinda supports my griping more than dismisses it.

Anyways, is LiveAquariua the only place that lists species or are there other vendors out there that dont give the colorname gimmick?

The assertion that has been mentioned in this thread that the names are primarily a matter of convenience is not true. Nor is the assertion that a particular name lets you know what the color/morphology of a particular specimen will be once it grows out in your tank, since to a large extent those attributes are highly malleable and conform to the environmental conditions of your tank.

However, in answer to your question of why Diver's Den's (owned by Live Aquaria, which is owned by PetCo) doesn't have comic book names for acropora, it's because a great deal of their selection are wild-harvested. There are exceptions, of course, in the "aquacultured" section. I'd imagine that it's too much work to give every wild-harvested piece a silly name when it makes it to Diver's Den's facilities, but please, for the love of Pete, let's not give them any ideas....

 

[flsalty]

The assertion that has been mentioned in this thread that the names are primarily a matter of convenience is not true. Nor is the assertion that a particular name lets you know what the color/morphology of a particular specimen will be once it grows out in your tank, since to a large extent those attributes are highly malleable and conform to the environmental conditions of your tank.

However, in answer to your question of why Diver's Den's (owned by Live Aquaria, which is owned by PetCo) doesn't have comic book names for acropora, it's because a great deal of their selection are wild-harvested. There are exceptions, of course, in the "aquacultured" section. I'd imagine that it's too much work to give every wild-harvested piece a silly name when it makes it to Diver's Den's facilities, but please, for the love of Pete, let's not give them any ideas....

LOL... That's sort of true, exxcept all the named corals were harvested from the wild at one time, despite what some vendors want us to believe. Nobody creates those corals. I have to laugh when someone says they are the originator of a coral. Does that mean they are God?

However, it's going to get real interesting when people start hybridizing corals, or even spawn different color morphs of the same species. THEN people can say a coral originated with them.

 

[Hermie]

"reefer"

 

[naterealbig]

But that's not the general complaint. The complaint is that vendors don't mention the species. I just checked a bunch of vendors and most don't list WD as a tenuis. Very few named acropora are listed by species name. My guess is most vendors don't even know the name. If they are going to sell a little piece of coral for 500 bucks they should figure out what it is. As it is, we have to rely on fellow hobbyists to figure out what they are.

Like the OP I have a specific list of acros I want. It's very difficult to match up species with comic book names. At some point I'll probably have to post a list and hope someone out there knows.

Going back to reread the original post, you are right. However, my answer is geared Toward the actual thread title, along with the majority of responses to the post.

Many mention that the "ridiculously" named corals are designed to fetch a premium price tag. I'm pointing out that the names and prices are mutually exclusive. I'm arguing that people don't pay high prices because of a name - and I'm sticking to it.

Your complaint is valid however, and I'd probably feel the same way if i was looking for a particular species. I would also argue that you are the minuscule minority who are looking for a specific species vs a specific color/genius/growth pattern which is generally easy to find if the coral you're looking for has been "named".

Have you been successful finding specific species in the past? I bet you'd get some hits if you actually called a vendor and spoke to someone. if there isn't a perceived demand for scientific names, the sellers probably won't do it....

Out of curiosity, do you care about the color of the specific species it is your looking for, or do you only care about the coral being that species? Are you actually able to differentiate coral species (without a very distinct shape or growth pattern)with the unaided eye? I would guess that there are very few people who can.

 

[Phildago]

I always wondered the same thing. I just got some new corals in, each with a name more ridiculous than the last and I had to reach out to get assistance on determining the species... And even then it was still a bit of guess work.

So how are we supposed to know where to place our corals if we don't know what the growth pattern is?

 

[naterealbig]

I always wondered the same thing. I just got some new corals in, each with a name more ridiculous than the last and I had to reach out to get assistance on determining the species... And even then it was still a bit of guess work.

So how are we supposed to know where to place our corals if we don't know what the growth pattern is?

Why would you spend money on corals with crazy names, without knowing the growth pattern, and then complain about the corals having crazy names and not knowing the growth pattern?

This is not a vendor issue. If you want to know something - start by asking. Or simply, don't spend your money there.

 

[Phildago]

Why would you spend money on corals with crazy names, without knowing the growth pattern, and then complain about the corals having crazy names and not knowing the growth pattern?

Because they're beautiful, I got them for a good price,and Im not an idiot, so I can figure it out. It's not the end of the world because I can observe them growing and then adjust from there. I can also observe the taxonomy and make an educated guess based on it.

The only point I'm making is that I dont see any appeal to the crazy names, since I didn't buy them for that reason, and that they can be counter productive because it takes more work to figure out exactly what they are.

This is not a vendor issue. If you want to know something - start by asking. Or simply, don't spend your money there.

Did I complain about any specific vendor? Do you suggest I just stop buying corals because since even my LFS likes to name their corals?

Just like how I don't buy corals from vendors based on the crazy made up names of the corals, I don't buy corals from vendors based on the scientific name. To be honest I couldn't really care less what the name is one way or the other. What actually matters is the health, color and consistency of the corals I get and I'm happy with that, so I shop where the quality is.

I'm not really sure why you got so aggressive about this. I wasn't personally insulting you by saying it's annoying to have random names for corals, nor was I insulting a vendor because it's not their fault that the person they bought the coral from also gave it a random crazy name.

 

[flsalty]

Going back to reread the original post, you are right. However, my answer is geared Toward the actual thread title, along with the majority of responses to the post.

Many mention that the "ridiculously" named corals are designed to fetch a premium price tag. I'm pointing out that the names and prices are mutually exclusive. I'm arguing that people don't pay high prices because of a name - and I'm sticking to it.

Your complaint is valid however, and I'd probably feel the same way if i was looking for a particular species. I would also argue that you are the minuscule minority who are looking for a specific species vs a specific color/genius/growth pattern which is generally easy to find if the coral you're looking for has been "named".

Have you been successful finding specific species in the past? I bet you'd get some hits if you actually called a vendor and spoke to someone. if there isn't a perceived demand for scientific names, the sellers probably won't do it....

Out of curiosity, do you care about the color of the specific species it is your looking for, or do you only care about the coral being that species? Are you actually able to differentiate coral species (without a very distinct shape or growth pattern)with the unaided eye? I would guess that there are very few people who can.

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on the name vs price thing. That's always going to be an endless debate.

I agree and understand that I'm probably in the minority when it comes to wanting to know species names. That saddens me a little. This is the only hobby involving living things I can think of that even advanced hobbyists don't care about such things. Not all, but most don't.

I also understand that Acropora species can be difficult to determine. I wish I could tell them all apart. No, I don't particularly care about the color other than wanting them all to look good together. Fortunately some are easy to find, like valida and tenuis. Others not so much.

 

[naterealbig]

Because they're beautiful, I got them for a good price,and Im not an idiot, so I can figure it out. It's not the end of the world because I can observe them growing and then adjust from there. I can also observe the taxonomy and make an educated guess based on it.

I get it, as I am rarely concerned with the coral species myself, with the exception that a particular species I am buying requires particular care. I have been reefing since 2006, and have not run into this problems yet. I replied to your post because your actions perpetuate the very thing the OP is complaining about. And I just can't understand why you would chime in to complain about things you had complete control over.

If the community truly cared about the taxonomy of the animals they were purchasing (yes, I realize there are a select few that truly do), the vendors/sellers would provide them. Mostly because, if people truly cared, they wouldn't purchase the corals without knowing their scientific names. The naming debate (to me) seems to just be another venue to use to jab at coral prices - another thing the community controls.

The only point I'm making is that I dont see any appeal to the crazy names, since I didn't buy them for that reason, and that they can be counter productive because it takes more work to figure out exactly what they are.

I (and I imagine many others) are not concerned about the name of the coral, other than the fact that when the owner mentions the named coral to a fried, brings it up in a thread, or calls a store to see if it's in stock - it is something that most well-versed SPS keepers recognize immediately.

Did I complain about any specific vendor? Do you suggest I just stop buying corals because since even my LFS likes to name their corals?

No, and I said neither of these things.

Just like how I don't buy corals from vendors based on the crazy made up names of the corals, I don't buy corals from vendors based on the scientific name. To be honest I couldn't really care less what the name is one way or the other. What actually matters is the health, color and consistency of the corals I get and I'm happy with that, so I shop where the quality is.

Ok - I certainly didn't perceive the tone of your post to be the tone I am reading above... I don't care much about a corals name either - but I also am not complaining about designer names or high prices.

I'm not really sure why you got so aggressive about this. I wasn't personally insulting you by saying it's annoying to have random names for corals, nor was I insulting a vendor because it's not their fault that the person they bought the coral from also gave it a random crazy name.

I'm not being aggressive at all - I am arguing my opinion and calling out what I see that doesn't make sense. It seems my opinion is the minority, and I'm OK with that. It doesn't change it however.

I don't feel like you were insulting me or anyone else - I consider our discussion in this thread healthy, and it's these conversations/debates that progress the hobby.

 

[Phildago]

I get it, as I am rarely concerned with the coral species myself, with the exception that a particular species I am buying requires particular care. I have been reefing since 2006, and have not run into this problems yet. I replied to your post because your actions perpetuate the very thing the OP is complaining about. And I just can't understand why you would chime in to complain about things you had complete control over.

If the community truly cared about the taxonomy of the animals they were purchasing (yes, I realize there are a select few that truly do), the vendors/sellers would provide them. Mostly because, if people truly cared, they wouldn't purchase the corals without knowing their scientific names. The naming debate (to me) seems to just be another venue to use to jab at coral prices - another thing the community controls.



I (and I imagine many others) are not concerned about the name of the coral, other than the fact that when the owner mentions the named coral to a fried, brings it up in a thread, or calls a store to see if it's in stock - it is something that most well-versed SPS keepers recognize immediately.



No, and I said neither of these things.



Ok - I certainly didn't perceive the tone of your post to be the tone I am reading above... I don't care much about a corals name either - but I also am not complaining about designer names or high prices.



I'm not being aggressive at all - I am arguing my opinion and calling out what I see that doesn't make sense. It seems my opinion is the minority, and I'm OK with that. It doesn't change it however.

I don't feel like you were insulting me or anyone else - I consider our discussion in this thread healthy, and it's these conversations/debates that progress the hobby.

Okay then, fair enough. It felt a bit aggressive with saying not to buy from people then. We both know that pretty much everybody uses these names, which pretty much equates to if you don't like the names don't buy coral anymore then...

As far as the debate on names VS prices go, I think it's fair to say that a unique name allows you to gain popularity, which allows price to go up. It's nobody's fault and it's not a direct cause and effect, but it's certainly true that word can spread faster and people have better recall for names like pink cadi rather than trying to describe specific characteristics of an acropora divaricata that you saw and liked. So although I understand why these corals need nicknames or common names in general, it's not necessary to completely omit the scientific name.

Scientific names aren't just randomly attached, they're categorical and describe the coral.