Why do some do so.

[RobertK]

I’ve got the waterbox Infinia sump and if you run the baffle for the refugium and low flow (3-5x turnover) it works great without socks.
In the sump you posted example of it would all depend on flow rate, looks like there’s a drop from the intake to the next chamber. Also look into modern drain setups utilizing gate valves for siphon overflow with emergency backup drains (herbie, bean animal, almost all modern systems utilize a version of these). Then make sure the drain is underwater in the sump and it greatly limits splashing and bubbles. So nice. These factors help a great deal with quieting things down.

Thanks for that. That picture was just an example. I'm looking at similar design sumps from Trigger, Synergy, others but with a similar filter sock section. I do plan on a BeanAnimal overflow, water will enter the sump below the waterline.

 

[CedarReef]

One corner -- maybe the cleanest

I'd like a rock from that sump.

 

[Jimbo327]

I run filter floss in my cups, but haven't changed them in months. I find that having the floss doesn't really catch too much. But it keeps the water clean enough in the display. I figure the floss is a good place for the big pods to stay at and eat whatever food is caught in there.

 

[skey44]

Wanted to add some pics! I feel like it’s pretty messy clean. Or disorganized organized. I dunno. I love it though. Keeps my display running pristine.

 

[Fishy888]

Wanted to add some pics! I feel like it’s pretty messy clean. Or disorganized organized. I dunno. I love it though. Keeps my display running pristine.

Mine is much like this! I don’t even bother with baffles. I have a single sock running. I’ll add a second eventually. Otherwise, there’s plenty of mulm down there. It’s a 75 gallon sump. I also have chaeto and grape caulerpa, and a skimmer. Once I upgrade my ATO, which hangs down into my sump, I’m going to make a cryptic area. Then I’ll have a reason to use a baffle.

 

[Louis Z]

So I have thought the same question . Not by out of curiosity but because I hate changing and cleaning filter socks . My skimmer pump gave out again . Frustrating to say the least . So rather than have all this mechanical filtration, I started this idea around April of this year . I have experimented with oysters and that has failed . So I have tried littleneck clams and have good luck with them . They seem to be hardy . So I am slowly ramping up my population . I started with eight in a qt tank . I have moved 5 over to DT . They are alive and seem well .I see them open with their siphon and they move around with a foot . I still have 3 in a 20 with a live red sponge and the tank is clear even with a 6inch blue crab that is forever “feed me Seymour “. There are about 2 dozen ghost shrimp with him and a few snails . The only other filter I have is an air driven sponge filter in that tank . I am pleased with the results and slowly moving the rest of the clams to the DT sump . I have since bought about 2 dozen more clams and will QT them to add more to DT . My next purchase will be more red sponges since I am having success with that species . Next step is to bring light on in the sump and put some chaetomorpha in there . With the detritus in the sump I see a lot of life scurrying about . I believe all this will help but still will do water changes and drip in kalkwasser . . If need be I can add activated carbon to remove any yellowing compounds if water change does not suffice .

 

[Paul B]

My sump has not been cleaned in 10, maybe 15 years.

How about your underwear?

I have not cleaned my sump since before Columbus came here and introduced reefs to the US.........Oh Wait!.........I don't have a sump. Never did.

I have nothing against them, or Taylor Swift. They were just not invented when I started my tank. No such thing. It was also hard to find a round one because my first fish tank in the early 50s was in the bottom of a wine barrel.

For the last 55 years my tank has a reverse undergravel filter. State of the art in 1971. The only socks I have are on my feet and I clean them every day. Or at least my wife does.

I do occasionally have to clean some detritus from my gravel with an external filter that I built, not because I care about detritus, but a reverse undergravel filter will clog eventually so I need to keep some channels clear.



I lived in my last house for 40 years and when I moved here I had to remove the UG filter and everything else to vats to bring here. Under the filter was thick mud filled with tiny, red tube worms and amphipods. In other words, life.

My Son N Law lifting the UG filter plates to move here.



Great stuff.

All the old tanks, as far as I can tell don't use quarantine or medications. My friends Atoll and Subsea, anyway. And our tanks are considered successful.

When I started my tank I said, if it lasts for 50 years, I will call It a success.
(I also said that if I last 50 years I will call it a success. )

It is 55 years old now so if it crashes now, maybe by someone throwing Beans underwear in there, I will still call it a success.

Like my friends Atoll and Subsea, I think quarantine and medication is silly, but only after you get a few years under your belt.

Our method is the simple way, but we are simple kind of guys and have learned the secret.

 

[Subsea]

How about your underwear?

I have not cleaned my sump since before Columbus came here and introduced reefs to the US.........Oh Wait!.........I don't have a sump. Never did.

I have nothing against them, or Taylor Swift. They were just not invented when I started my tank. No such thing. It was also hard to find a round one because my first fish tank in the early 50s was in the bottom of a wine barrel.

For the last 55 years my tank has a reverse undergravel filter. State of the art in 1971. The only socks I have are on my feet and I clean them every day. Or at least my wife does.

I do occasionally have to clean some detritus from my gravel with an external filter that I built, not because I care about detritus, but a reverse undergravel filter will clog eventually so I need to keep some channels clear.



I lived in my last house for 40 years and when I moved here I had to remove the UG filter and everything else to vats to bring here. Under the filter was thick mud filled with tiny, red tube worms and amphipods. In other words, life.

My Son N Law lifting the UG filter plates to move here.



Great stuff.

All the old tanks, as far as I can tell don't use quarantine or medications. My friends Atoll and Subsea, anyway. And our tanks are considered successful.

When I started my tank I said, if it lasts for 50 years, I will call It a success.
(I also said that if I last 50 years I will call it a success. )

It is 55 years old now so if it crashes now, maybe by someone throwing Beans underwear in there, I will still call it a success.

Like my friends Atoll and Subsea, I think quarantine and medication is silly, but only after you get a few years under your belt.

Our method is the simple way, but we are simple kind of guys and have learned the secret.

Keep it up Paul.



Because I am “A Simple Man”, I thought of Lynrd Skynrd!

 

[atoll]

How about your underwear?

I have not cleaned my sump since before Columbus came here and introduced reefs to the US.........Oh Wait!.........I don't have a sump. Never did.

I have nothing against them, or Taylor Swift. They were just not invented when I started my tank. No such thing. It was also hard to find a round one because my first fish tank in the early 50s was in the bottom of a wine barrel.

For the last 55 years my tank has a reverse undergravel filter. State of the art in 1971. The only socks I have are on my feet and I clean them every day. Or at least my wife does.

I do occasionally have to clean some detritus from my gravel with an external filter that I built, not because I care about detritus, but a reverse undergravel filter will clog eventually so I need to keep some channels clear.



I lived in my last house for 40 years and when I moved here I had to remove the UG filter and everything else to vats to bring here. Under the filter was thick mud filled with tiny, red tube worms and amphipods. In other words, life.

My Son N Law lifting the UG filter plates to move here.



Great stuff.

All the old tanks, as far as I can tell don't use quarantine or medications. My friends Atoll and Subsea, anyway. And our tanks are considered successful.

When I started my tank I said, if it lasts for 50 years, I will call It a success.
(I also said that if I last 50 years I will call it a success. )

It is 55 years old now so if it crashes now, maybe by someone throwing Beans underwear in there, I will still call it a success.

Like my friends Atoll and Subsea, I think quarantine and medication is silly, but only after you get a few years under your belt.

Our method is the simple way, but we are simple kind of guys and have learned the secret.

We don't not QT to take a risk or gamble, we don't QT because we think it's unnecessary and dangerous given the number of fish thst die in QT or shortly after. We believe and have demonstrated there is a better less stress free way which is so simple many people don't seem to understand how it can be successful but successful it is.

 

[Subsea]

‘

We don't not QT to take a risk or gamble, we don't QT because we think it's unnecessary and dangerous given the number of fish thst die in QT or shortly after. We believe and have demonstrated there is a better less stress free way which is so simple many people don't seem to understand how it can be successful but successful it is.

Atoll,
Stress is the silent killer of fish and people. It is difficult to measure, yet it is lethal.

Paul.
Consider the void below your sand bed as a cryptic refugium.

“I have not cleaned my sump since before Columbus came here and introduced reefs to the US.........Oh Wait!.........I don't have a sump. Never did. “

 

[atoll]

‘

Atoll,
Stress is the silent killer of fish and people. It is difficult to measure, yet it is lethal.

Yep, and a BIG contributor to opening the fish up to secondary issues like White spot. Stress weakens the fish which is all thats needed to invite parasites and other problems to the fish.

 

[BeanAnimal]

How about your underwear?

Paul, you are as old as dirt and I a am not far behind. I don't know about the kiddies these days, but my mother and your mother both taught us to say please and thank you, to hold doors for people and to "never leave the house without clean underwear, you never know when you might be in an accident" or something to that effect.

 

[Paul B]

Stress also shortens the fish's life span, as I have posted 57 times through cortisol.

 

[Paul B]

to hold doors for people and to "never leave the house without clean underwear, you never know when you might be in an accident" or something to that effect.

Correct. My Mother always told me that if you go to a hospital and don't have on clean underwear, they won't help you. Maybe it's true, I don't know, and I think for all of my 39 surgeries, I had on clean underwear because they never threw me out in the parking lot near the dumpsters.

 

[Doctor Derp]

Or like me just leave it alone.

My latest tank is about 5 years old now. I have never cleaned my sump. Why haven't I? Well let me start by stating, I have no filter floss, no socks and no roller mat. Apart from a skimmer there is nothing else to particulate like detritus out.

So back to the question. Why dont I remove that gunk that accumulates in my sump?
A good indication to why is the amount of life within it, its teaming with lots of sponges. Copepods amphripods, mini tube worms and so on.

Now am not saying those that use mechanical filtration don't have life in their sump but my question to those who do, why? Are you sure that expensive roller mat is necessary? Are you sure its really beneficial to your DT and corals?

Many years ago I did use filter floss to remove what now lies in my sump. I have long sinced believed not only is it harmless its actually beneficial to my system and forms a large part of my beliefs in keeping a reef aquarium.

There are others if course, some quite controversial to manynhere. That dosen't worry me as I go by results achieved. I don't add much in the way of coral foods, vitamins, amino acids or other locations and potions. I feel.my tank doesn't need them.

I don't wish to be critical of those who employ mechanical filtration and or clean their sump of detritus as I know there is more than one way to run a reef tank. IMO less is more unless its regarding my reefscape which is a different topic altogether.

May your reef thrive whichever way you prefer to run it.
Not easy to get a good shot of my sump due to reflection.

Detritus is the same, weight-for-weight, as a fish bioload. Clean your nasty-!@# sump, bro. That's disgusting.

 

[drukkosz]

Great Thread! lots of legends here :) Happy Reefing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

We don't not QT to take a risk or gamble, we don't QT because we think it's unnecessary and dangerous given the number of fish thst die in QT or shortly after. We believe and have demonstrated there is a better less stress free way which is so simple many people don't seem to understand how it can be successful but successful it is.

I do not doubt that there is some validity to both approaches, and also that there is death by both approaches, which you may be ignoring.

If a mainstay of your approach is to carefully observe fish for healthy specimens, then you are not selecting many less than healthy specimens. Those less perfect ones may be the exact ones that would die during a QT treatment, and without a QT, may go on to die in the store or in customer tanks.

In fact, I think there's no evidence either way about which approach leads to more total deaths.

 

[Subsea]

Detritus is the same, weight-for-weight, as a fish bioload. Clean your nasty-!@# sump, bro. That's disgusting.

Detrivores are part of CUC and they provide multiple food webs that recycle nutrients up the microbial highway.

While fish poop is one source for detritus, its not the only source.

Oxford dictionary:

organic matter produced by the decomposition of organisms.

I cultivate cryptic sponges and encourage carbon rich detritus to feed the microbial loop that feeds my reef tank.

 

[Doctor Derp]

Detrivores are part of CUC and they provide multiple food webs that recycle nutrients up the microbial highway.

While fish poop is one source for detritus, its not the only source.

Oxford dictionary:

organic matter produced by the decomposition of organisms.

I cultivate cryptic sponges and encourage carbon rich detritus to feed the microbial loop that feeds my reef tank.

You are applying concepts from vastly diverse natural systems that a closed aquarium system is far from similar to. Aquarium biodiversity trends lower the longer said system runs. One or a few specific species of bacteria will dominate in the closed system and outcompete most others to the point of nonexistence. Nothing you are doing here is making an iota of difference in that process. All you're doing is overloading your system with biological material. Run a DOC test and see how absolutely terrible your tank is. I'll wait.

 

[Subsea]

You are applying concepts from vastly diverse natural systems that a closed aquarium system is far from similar to. Aquarium biodiversity trends lower the longer said system runs. One or a few specific species of bacteria will dominate in the closed system and outcompete most others to the point of nonexistence. Nothing you are doing here is making an iota of difference in that process. All you're doing is overloading your system with biological material. Run a DOC test and see how absolutely terrible your tank is. I'll wait.

So you say. I don’t have the issues you speak of.

I don’t doubt that your Oklahoma SPS growout facility needs that attention, my mixed garden of filter feeders and softies does not.

If nothing was done in a system and it was allowed to degrade to “old tank syndrome” as a generalization, dominant species would take over. Not dissimilar to a climax forest on land.

In context of bacteria in a reef tank, gut cavity bacteria from live clams and fresh live food from the seafood market are an important source.