Why does Reef aquascaping lag behind compared to Planted?

[Miami Reef]

Look at @Ardeus ’s posts. He has the same opinion.

Here‘s an old thread he made: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...nexplored-when-compared-to-freshwater.379637/

Another thread of his: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/analysis-of-the-3-most-beautiful-reef-tanks-on-youtube.818258/

 

[MoshJosh]

Look past the corals. Healthy corals are great, but without a strong rockscape they fall flat.

Nope.

 

[Ef4life]

If you don’t think coral health matters you should just play aquascape with fish only

 

[Stevorino]

I dunno man... posting still pictures of the world's finest, award-winning planted tanks, and then asking why more reef tanks aren't like those seems like a 1 week ban territory to me :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

 

[MoshJosh]

I will concede that, at least as far as I can tell, focusing on the things that you are talking about (rule of thirds, perspective, ratios, etc.) seems to be more of a consideration among those who scape in freshwater compared to those who scape in salt. . . but that does not mean they are "lagging behind". These are vastly different mediums.

Could reefers set out from day one to make the PERFECT scape. . . sure. . . but a HUGE ask in a hobby where most beginners aren't even sure they can keep the corals ALIVE.

Could reefers set out from day one to make the PERFECT scape. . . sure. . . if they are willing and able to invest literal thousands of dollars and or years of their lives. As mentioned previously, some of the freshwater scapes we se are set up for competition and torn down after. . . note really an option in reefing. Also, what happens in a year from now I decide I want a different coral or different fish or have to move. . . then all PERFECT reef scape planning was for nothing.

Also SUPER biased original post:

Why don't freshwater scapers take their tanks seriously:

(nothing against the FW tanks posted, just making a point. . .)

 

[Raul-7]

My point wasn't to belittle SW at all. In fact, it's more beautiful than FW with all the fish and coral choices [Only Discus and Altums can compare to SW, the other beautiful FW fish are a lot smaller].

But it's frustrating to see how much money is poured into the equipment, coral and fish while ignoring the aquascape.

Most FW hobbyists are cheap and look for shortcuts, hence why you see these haphazardly designed aquariums.

Here's a quote from Steve Weast:
1) a shallow sand bed for realism
2) no hardware, pipes, outlets, wires or frag racks of any size or kind that is visible.
3) an absolutely clean rear panel for visual depth and to give the corals a clean black background to silhouette against. No unauthorized coralline algae growth on the acrylic is allowed in my display no matter how much I have to clean them each day.
4) scale of rock structure is in proportion to open space.
5) no individual specimen is more important than the overall display. My displays mostly feature the most common of corals...I don’t pursue the latest designer corals. I enjoy viewing a display in its entirety far more than the color nuances of an individual coral.
6) my display will always be more white light than blue light...no black light coral glow for me.


This I think is important, most people tend to choose a salad of different corals without thinking of the overall colors complimenting each other. Or total impact of having different colors and shapes, etc.

So for example, in a planted aquarium you have longer plants at the back and shorter plants like Cryptocoryne's, Anubias, etc. at the front.

 

[MoshJosh]

My point wasn't to belittle SW at all. In fact, it's more beautiful than FW with all the fish and coral choices [Only Discus and Altums can compare to SW, the other beautiful FW fish are a lot smaller].

But it's frustrating to see how much money is poured into the equipment, coral and fish while ignoring the aquascape.

Most FW hobbyists are cheap and look for shortcuts, hence why you see these haphazardly designed aquariums.

Here's a quote from Steve Weast:
1) a shallow sand bed for realism
2) no hardware, pipes, outlets, wires or frag racks of any size or kind that is visible.
3) an absolutely clean rear panel for visual depth and to give the corals a clean black background to silhouette against. No unauthorized coralline algae growth on the acrylic is allowed in my display no matter how much I have to clean them each day.
4) scale of rock structure is in proportion to open space.
5) no individual specimen is more important than the overall display. My displays mostly feature the most common of corals...I don’t pursue the latest designer corals. I enjoy viewing a display in its entirety far more than the color nuances of an individual coral.
6) my display will always be more white light than blue light...no black light coral glow for me.

I am sure Steve's tanks are great, I am not familiar with his work though, but a number of the things on that list don't agree with mine, and I'm sure others', preferences.

I like coraline, the more the better.
I don't like sand, I like bare bottom tanks (Like when I kept discus).
I can't afford cordless wave makers
There are coral specimens that are more important to me than other
Corals use blue light at a higher ratio than other spectrums and I want to maximize their growth.


OP I think what your asking for is doable, and the people who want that look and have the means to achieve it will. . . but we don't all want that or even care about that. . . many hobbyists just want to keep the corals alive.

 

[blecki]

Personally my favorite scape is still the big pile of rock. And the giant wall of rock full of coral? Amazing.

In many of these scapes they've created 'negative space' or whatever but they've also failed to give the fish any hiding places.

 

[Spare time]

3 ugly pillars still has a direction, shape and overall design goal. Which is lacking from a lot of reef aquariums especially at that size.

This is your average reef. Just random placement of rock and coral.

Now I'm not mocking anyone in the hobby and I understand everyone has different priorities in this hobby. But this is simply a discussion.

Trust me, in the planted hobby [which is miles easier] you still find a lot of jungle aquariums with very little planning or design.

Who says its random?

 

[MoshJosh]

Most FW hobbyists are cheap and look for shortcuts, hence why you see these haphazardly designed aquariums.

I don't think this statement is fair to FW keepers nor do I think the implication is fair to SW keepers.

There are beautiful freshwater tanks and there are beautiful reef tanks. They are different mediums and the people who keep them have varying goals (as highlighted in this thread). If you want to scape your reef to look like, or "follow the rules" of, a freshwater tank I say go for it! I am sure it will look great! But this in no way means those who don't are "lagging behind".

And look, it can go the other way too!

 

[00W]

If I stayed home every minute of the day my tanks might look like these.
But I doubt it.
I don't like sand so I fail there.
I need hiding places so I'll take my pile of rocks thank you.
I have 5 tanks.
3 fresh and 2 salt so I'm familiar with it all.

I'm happy with this and that's all that matters to ME.
Thanks for the pictures.

 

[mizimmer90]

OP asks why reef aquascapes aren't taken as seriously as in planted tanks, but sure didn't struggle to find some absolutely stunning reef scapes lol

I think the biggest difference between planted tanks and reef tanks is that one looks like plants on rocks and the other looks like corals in the ocean.

My partner loves the look of planted tanks and asked if Id try one of those instead of a reef. But the ocean calls for me. Different strokes!

 

[Ef4life]

There's no clear focal point. Moreover, his rock placement weakens the overall aquascape as it is very flat and lacks any real depth when compared to other reefs I've posted.

In fact, the pile of rocks on the right distracts and contrasts rather than complements the overall aquascape.

Look past the corals. Healthy corals are great, but without a strong rockscape they fall flat.

This is another beautiful example. See how the rockscape clearly defines the aquascape. No random coral placement and overall very pleasant on the eyes.

Beautifully done reef, but that’s also a lot of soft coral, again if you want to showcase the rocks, stick with no corals or soft corals. If you go Stoney coral dominated your scape won’t make much difference in the end.

 

[steveweast]

I am sure Steve's tanks are great, I am not familiar with his work though, but a number of the things on that list don't agree with mine, and I'm sure others', preferences.

I like coraline, the more the better.
I don't like sand, I like bare bottom tanks (Like when I kept discus).
I can't afford cordless wave makers
There are coral specimens that are more important to me than other
Corals use blue light at a higher ratio than other spectrums and I want to maximize their growth.


OP I think what your asking for is doable, and the people who want that look and have the means to achieve it will. . . but we don't all want that or even care about that. . . many hobbyists just want to keep the corals alive.

I’m not quite sure how I found myself in this topic but comparing planted tanks to reef tanks is apples and oranges. Two very different artistic mediums. However, each can take inspiration from each other. I certainly try to take inspiration from those planted tanks. As for the comment above…

1) coralline algae is a matter of preference. I certainly encourage coralline growth everywhere but on the glass. For me, its growth on the panels is visual pollution that competes with the corals.

2) I don’t think that there are cordless wave makers. I use the same equipment as everyone else….I just hide it really well since I find them distracting. I want them to do their job without being in view.

3) sand has a long list of negatives. I would never have it if it were not so attractive to the overall display.

My old system from the early 2000’s looked like this. Actually, one of my tank photos is still used on every Reef Nutrition label.

http://www.oregonreef.com/images/photos/p_108_l.jpg

My current…..much smaller system….is this…..

Aug 2023 400 Gal Mixed Reef

 

[Ef4life]

Do you have a pic of your tanks with bare rock? So we can see how the scape Changed as the coral grew?

I’m not quite sure how I found myself in this topic but comparing planted tanks to reef tanks is apples and oranges. Two very different artistic mediums. However, each can take inspiration from each other. I certainly try to take inspiration from those planted tanks. As for the comment above…

1) coralline algae is a matter of preference. I certainly encourage coralline growth everywhere but on the glass. For me, its growth on the panels is visual pollution that competes with the corals.

2) I don’t think that there are cordless wave makers. I use the same equipment as everyone else….I just hide it really well since I find them distracting. I want them to do their job without being in view.

3) sand has a long list of negatives. I would never have it if it were not so attractive to the overall display.

My old system from the early 2000’s looked like this. Actually, one of my tank photos is still used on every Reef Nutrition label.

http://www.oregonreef.com/images/photos/p_108_l.jpg

My current…..much smaller system….is this…..

Aug 2023 400 Gal Mixed Reef

 

[Raul-7]

I’m not quite sure how I found myself in this topic but comparing planted tanks to reef tanks is apples and oranges. Two very different artistic mediums. However, each can take inspiration from each other. I certainly try to take inspiration from those planted tanks. As for the comment above…

1) coralline algae is a matter of preference. I certainly encourage coralline growth everywhere but on the glass. For me, its growth on the panels is visual pollution that competes with the corals.

2) I don’t think that there are cordless wave makers. I use the same equipment as everyone else….I just hide it really well since I find them distracting. I want them to do their job without being in view.

3) sand has a long list of negatives. I would never have it if it were not so attractive to the overall display.

My old system from the early 2000’s looked like this. Actually, one of my tank photos is still used on every Reef Nutrition label.

http://www.oregonreef.com/images/photos/p_108_l.jpg

Sorry to drag you into this Steve! But honestly, you set one of the early benchmarks with that 72"x96" reef aquarium on what a well-designed aquascape can do for the overall tone of the aquarium.

I'm glad you shared you experience with us. And that aquarium is always one of my inspirations! :slightly-smiling-face:

Honestly, one of the best reef's I've ever seen especially at that time.

 

[steveweast]

Do you have a pic of your tanks with bare rock? So we can see how the scape Changed as the coral grew?

Sorry…I don’t. I never really think to document that because….to me….it’s like taking a picture of an empty canvas. But, I kinda wished I had. I can see the benefit that it could have for both me and others.

I’ll add one more thought. For me…a big difference from a planted tank from a reef tank is that it seems that planted tanks are pretty static and don’t change over time. Reef tanks are constantly changing…creating a different display over time. As an example, I created the above posted video this last July. My tank has changed a bit even since then. Corals grow…new corals come in….other corals are trimmed or moved….and even the rockwork can change. I recently changed the middle of my tank rockwork to be more connected to the rear structure thus improving….at least to me….the rockwork to be more natural and less placed looking.

Our reef tanks are perpetually evolving artistic displays….planted tanks….not so much. That doesn’t mean that planted tanks are less impressive….just different.

 

[MoshJosh]

I’m not quite sure how I found myself in this topic but comparing planted tanks to reef tanks is apples and oranges. Two very different artistic mediums. However, each can take inspiration from each other. I certainly try to take inspiration from those planted tanks. As for the comment above…

1) coralline algae is a matter of preference. I certainly encourage coralline growth everywhere but on the glass. For me, its growth on the panels is visual pollution that competes with the corals.

2) I don’t think that there are cordless wave makers. I use the same equipment as everyone else….I just hide it really well since I find them distracting. I want them to do their job without being in view.

3) sand has a long list of negatives. I would never have it if it were not so attractive to the overall display.

My old system from the early 2000’s looked like this. Actually, one of my tank photos is still used on every Reef Nutrition label.

http://www.oregonreef.com/images/photos/p_108_l.jpg

My current…..much smaller system….is this…..

Aug 2023 400 Gal Mixed Reef

I'm not sure either, and my comments were not so much directed at you or your tanks, rather at OPs use of "your list" in describing the inadequacies of the "average reef tank", and highlighting that peoples preferences vary.

Also, I did not mean a truly "wireless" wave maker, rather those that have the wire outside of the tank.

Also, turns out I am familiar with your tanks. There is a picture of one in my fridge!

 

[steveweast]

One more thing about the rockwork. Jake Adams and I used to talk about this a bunch. A big difference between Jake and I….is that I aquascape from the get go…for the here and now. Jake aquascaped for three years down the road.

I always want the tank to look filled and interesting from day one…..not three years down the road. This means that I have way too much rock at the start and remove probably over half as corals are added and grow to fill the display.

 

[Raul-7]

One more thing about the rockwork. Jake Adams and I used to talk about this a bunch. A big difference between Jake and I….is that I aquascape from the get go…for the here and now. Jake aquascaped for three years down the road.

I always want the tank to look filled and interesting from day one…..not three years down the road. This means that I have way too much rock at the start and remove probably over half as corals are added and grow to fill the display.

Did you have a method to stack the rockwork? Did you use any artistic 'rules' such as the golden ratio, negative space, rule of thirds, etc.? Do you have a look in mind like you did with your famous aquascape - like a canyon?

With regards to coral; is it important to select coral colors that compliment each other or the more colors the better? What about shape; is it wise to choose coral shapes that compliment each other? Montipora with acropora, etc.?

I apologize for all the questions, I would just like to learn since aquascaping with coral is MUCH harder than it is with plants.