OP
OP
Thank ya! It happens, that's the circle of life. I think a small herd of Sexy Shrimp will be needed to fill the void left by Chopsticks.
Building Tuna Melt's Bustling Mixed Reef
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OP
OP
Thanks!
It's great, I'm a big fan. Easy to control via the app, multiple different flow patterns, plus a temperature probe which is a nice touch.
I would say it's got 4.5 feet of head pressure so that’s ~350 GPH. I have it set at 75% speed so that looks like 263 GPH, I estimate my total water volume (after accounting for rocks and equipment) is about 30 Gallons so I'm getting 8.75x tank turnover. Not amazing but it gets the job done, I suppose I could ratchet it up to get that to 10x. I think most folks aim for 10-15x but I don't know if there is any science behind that.
OP
OP
Had the pumps off today for maintenance and took these top down videos. Hope ya enjoy:
It’s nearly the 1 year anniversary of the tank and I’m eons past due on an update. I’ll post an update shortly!
It’s nearly the 1 year anniversary of the tank and I’m eons past due on an update. I’ll post an update shortly!
OP
OP
Well, it was a difficult fall for my little reef. Earlier this summer the tank was cruising. I was getting great growth and felt bold enough to try my hand at SPS with a few easy leproseries and cyphastrea. These grew, a few like weeds, and at Reefapolooza NY, I grabbed a Montipora Digitata to test the waters of branching SPS coral. To my delight, it encrusted, grew, and had good color and polyp extension. My rocks were hardly visible beneath a blanket of coralline algae and the tank was showing signs of maturation. I decided I was ready for a large batch of relatively forgiving SPS coral. I loaded my shopping cart with Seriatopora, Stylophora, Montipora, and a few select Acropora from Tidal Gardens and Saltwater Aquarium’s ORA shop. I wanted the hardiest possible Acropora so I chose the Acros based off the responses to these threads discussing easy/hardy Acropora. (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...-of-acropora-are-the-easiest-hardiest.400444/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/easiest-acro-is-there-such-a-thing-as-an-easy-acro.935449/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hardiest-acropora-in-the-hobby.404579/) I tallied up the results and chose the top three, see below. Over 30 Acros were suggested as being “easy” however I’ve only included the ones that got multiple responses, unsurprisingly Green Slimer topped the chart.
Shortly after, I noticed some STN working its way up a Stylophora. Within a week, it had spread to 3 Leptoseris, 2 Cyphastrea, 1 Stylophora, and 1 tiny little piece of a Tri Color Valida that broke off the main frag and I glued it to a rock (because why not). From there it spread far and wide effecting all SPS. Notably, encrusting / plating coral were hit first and hit hardest, other SPS were able to hang around for a bit. After it took out all the SPS, It moved to LPS. I was at a loss, I didn’t have perfect chemistry, but it wasn’t awful, and coral that were happy two weeks ago were now necrosing. Even my unwavering Duncan. After receiving an acceptable ICP test I strongly suspected a coral pathogen (and still do). The tank was crumbling in front of my eyes so I bit the bullet and dosed Cipro (100mg/500g, every other night, 5 total doses). The Cipro was highly effective, the STN stopped in its tracks and growth exploded. But It didn’t last, a few weeks later the necrosis was rearing it ugly head again. I had read Mike P’s article here (https://reefbuilders.com/2023/04/10/managing-tissue-necrosis/) about a similar experience he had with Cipro. He subsequently dosed 500mg/100g to great effect. I followed his dosing recommendations and the necrosing stopped. The only SPS left were small residual encrusted chips left on the rock after I ripped out the main frag. The tank stabilized and growth continued. Most of the remnants have showed substantial growth since then. However, in a devastating turn of events a .5cm montipora frag that had encrusted and grown into a 1 inch frag necrosed a few days ago after adding a few more frags and switching my feeding regime (which I’ll touch on later). Honestly, deep down I always knew the pathogen was still in my tank, waiting for the right moment to rear its ugly head. I must have stressed the small monti which gave the pathogen an opening. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/first-rtn-bleaching-experience-what-should-i-do.1004730/
Some folks may be unconvinced it’s a coral pathogen, and I get it, it’s a new tank and I’m a new reefer. But my Goni’s have nearly doubled in size, my torches have added three new heads, and my Durasa clam has been growing at an alarming clip, there is always a centimeter of fresh shell growth on the rim of his bivalves. From my understanding these all require a comparable degree of water quality relative to forgiving SPS such as digi’s, stylophoras, and birdsnests. So why do SPS always die in my tank? And why does it always follow the same pattern?
Goni Growth (and they are deflated these days because the Clowns constantly frolic in them):
Torch Growth:
Fresh new Clam Shell:
My chemistry has been solid, granted it has not been perfect, but I think it has certainly been adequate to keep a digi or two alive. I test alk and po4 twice a week, No3 and Calc every week, and send ICP tests out monthly. My PH peaks at 8.3 during the day and bottoms out at 8.0-8.1 at nights and temp is relatively stable around 79 degrees. Although I don’t think the problem is chemistry related here are some of the chemistry things that could cause it:
So if its not chemistry, maybe its biology. I sent an acquabiomics tests out before and after the CIPRO treatment (FYI I think they are a terrible company see here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aquabiomics-a-terrible-company.1025673/#post-12047959 but that’s a story for another day). Its very very cool, but I did not find it very helpful, my vibro was not hyper dominant and I did not have any coral pathogens above the average level. I don’t think that the entire microbiome of a reeftank can be summarized with one Swab. Each coral has its own unique microbiome, and each part of the coral’s body also contains its own unique microbiome. Anyway, below are the before and after snap shots of my tanks microbiome.
Before Cipro: After Cipro:
So long story short, I’m at a loss. I’ve considered getting some TBS live rock to reinvigorate the microbiome, who knows maybe I’m missing a few crucial microbes. I’m going to try and keep my chemistry as stable as humanly possible, and hit the below target levels. I’m also going to try to get my nitrates to 100x phosphates. Maybe the tank will hit some unseen threshold and suddenly be ~mature~. Maybe I’ve overengineered everything and things cannot find equilibrium. It’s frustrating and disappointing. Any Advice would be more than welcome. Anyway I'll upload some pics of the tank for your time below:
Trapeze artist Pom Pom Crab:
One of my favorite microcrustaceans, the Pederson Cleaner Shrimp:
And the herd of Sexy Shrimp who hang out under their gargantuan cousin the Blood Red Fire Shrimp:
Shortly after, I noticed some STN working its way up a Stylophora. Within a week, it had spread to 3 Leptoseris, 2 Cyphastrea, 1 Stylophora, and 1 tiny little piece of a Tri Color Valida that broke off the main frag and I glued it to a rock (because why not). From there it spread far and wide effecting all SPS. Notably, encrusting / plating coral were hit first and hit hardest, other SPS were able to hang around for a bit. After it took out all the SPS, It moved to LPS. I was at a loss, I didn’t have perfect chemistry, but it wasn’t awful, and coral that were happy two weeks ago were now necrosing. Even my unwavering Duncan. After receiving an acceptable ICP test I strongly suspected a coral pathogen (and still do). The tank was crumbling in front of my eyes so I bit the bullet and dosed Cipro (100mg/500g, every other night, 5 total doses). The Cipro was highly effective, the STN stopped in its tracks and growth exploded. But It didn’t last, a few weeks later the necrosis was rearing it ugly head again. I had read Mike P’s article here (https://reefbuilders.com/2023/04/10/managing-tissue-necrosis/) about a similar experience he had with Cipro. He subsequently dosed 500mg/100g to great effect. I followed his dosing recommendations and the necrosing stopped. The only SPS left were small residual encrusted chips left on the rock after I ripped out the main frag. The tank stabilized and growth continued. Most of the remnants have showed substantial growth since then. However, in a devastating turn of events a .5cm montipora frag that had encrusted and grown into a 1 inch frag necrosed a few days ago after adding a few more frags and switching my feeding regime (which I’ll touch on later). Honestly, deep down I always knew the pathogen was still in my tank, waiting for the right moment to rear its ugly head. I must have stressed the small monti which gave the pathogen an opening. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/first-rtn-bleaching-experience-what-should-i-do.1004730/
Some folks may be unconvinced it’s a coral pathogen, and I get it, it’s a new tank and I’m a new reefer. But my Goni’s have nearly doubled in size, my torches have added three new heads, and my Durasa clam has been growing at an alarming clip, there is always a centimeter of fresh shell growth on the rim of his bivalves. From my understanding these all require a comparable degree of water quality relative to forgiving SPS such as digi’s, stylophoras, and birdsnests. So why do SPS always die in my tank? And why does it always follow the same pattern?
Goni Growth (and they are deflated these days because the Clowns constantly frolic in them):
Torch Growth:
Fresh new Clam Shell:
My chemistry has been solid, granted it has not been perfect, but I think it has certainly been adequate to keep a digi or two alive. I test alk and po4 twice a week, No3 and Calc every week, and send ICP tests out monthly. My PH peaks at 8.3 during the day and bottoms out at 8.0-8.1 at nights and temp is relatively stable around 79 degrees. Although I don’t think the problem is chemistry related here are some of the chemistry things that could cause it:
- Consistently low nitrate – Problem here is people ran great reeftanks with no Nitrates for years during the deep sand bed age. Nitrates have always been very low since my primary method of nutrient reduction is an ATS. Historically I’ve fed LRS reef frenzy which is mostly fish and shellfish. Fish have a much lower N/P ratio than plants ~(8/1 vs 15/1), so I’m feeding 8 N for every 1 P but my ATS is extracting 15 N for every 1 P. so I’m perpetually N constrained. I was previously dosing neo-nitro to maintain my desired level of Nitrate (you'll see the spike below) but I stopped because I think it may have caused the necrosis somehow. There are a few folks out there that have experienced STN / RTN after dosing N (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/addition-of-nitrate-and-stn.961462/page-2#post-11968293). Now I’m trying to bring my N back up organically through an adjusted feeding regiment (and maybe dosing Aminos if it gets to that) so I guess well see if things go south again. Also, I view measured Nitrate as a representation of excess N in the system rather than a measure of true usable N. That's because corals prefer ammonia and that's their primary (preferred) source of N, so why does the leftovers (if that makes sense). One thing I just realized, the spike in Nitrate followed shortly after the Cipro treatment so maybe I have some denitrifying bacteria in my tank somewhere (that the Cipro knocked back), my sand bed is about 3 inches deep at the deepest so I'm not sure where it could be.
- Calcium – My calcium has not been great. It’s had some fluctuations, largely because the Hanna test kit is just not that accurate with RODI water so I never really believe the Hana Checker when the results are whacky. I realized last weekend I need to use distilled water and I expect it to be better in the future now that I can actually test it.
- Salinity – I used a BRS refractometer for most of last year and constantly recalibrated it to 35. Per that refractometer my salinity was constantly 35, however, ICP tests consistently showed a salinity of ~33.5. After much diligence on the topic, I switched to a high quality hydrometer in December, which indeed showed my water was at 33.5 ppt (it’s a real thing, refractometers drift over time someone touched on it at Macna this year). Over a few weeks I raised it to 35 using the hydrometer and my latest ICP tests have shown spot on Salinity. Obviously salinity is crucial, that being said, I have seen successful tanks that have a salinity of 33.5, and mine was always stable and not fluctuating.
- Trace elements – Always a question, but ive been sending out ICP tests and dosing individual Captivate Aquaculture trace elements per to get them in line with the below targets.
- Contaminants – I’ve always had high aluminum, this was a result of me using various ceramic media at the beginning, but I’ve slowly been pulling it out and now its down to 40 ug/l. The other big question is Tin. I usually use reeflab’s ICP but I occasionally send out ATI ICP tests. Reeflab does not test for tin but ATI does, I have Tin levels around 24 ug/l… Now I’m fairly certain this comes from a few pieces of tubing in my tank but from what I understand elevated Tin is very common in our tanks (since PVC and tubing leaches it), and usually not a big problem at this level. Maybe the combination of the two is doing it.
So if its not chemistry, maybe its biology. I sent an acquabiomics tests out before and after the CIPRO treatment (FYI I think they are a terrible company see here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aquabiomics-a-terrible-company.1025673/#post-12047959 but that’s a story for another day). Its very very cool, but I did not find it very helpful, my vibro was not hyper dominant and I did not have any coral pathogens above the average level. I don’t think that the entire microbiome of a reeftank can be summarized with one Swab. Each coral has its own unique microbiome, and each part of the coral’s body also contains its own unique microbiome. Anyway, below are the before and after snap shots of my tanks microbiome.
Before Cipro: After Cipro:
So long story short, I’m at a loss. I’ve considered getting some TBS live rock to reinvigorate the microbiome, who knows maybe I’m missing a few crucial microbes. I’m going to try and keep my chemistry as stable as humanly possible, and hit the below target levels. I’m also going to try to get my nitrates to 100x phosphates. Maybe the tank will hit some unseen threshold and suddenly be ~mature~. Maybe I’ve overengineered everything and things cannot find equilibrium. It’s frustrating and disappointing. Any Advice would be more than welcome. Anyway I'll upload some pics of the tank for your time below:
Trapeze artist Pom Pom Crab:
One of my favorite microcrustaceans, the Pederson Cleaner Shrimp:
And the herd of Sexy Shrimp who hang out under their gargantuan cousin the Blood Red Fire Shrimp:
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OP
OP
A few vids worth sharing!
A FTS
Feeding Time
This pom pom crab and Fire Shrimp scrambling for food
Life at ground level
And perhaps the coolest of all, this RFA spawning
A FTS
Feeding Time
This pom pom crab and Fire Shrimp scrambling for food
Life at ground level
And perhaps the coolest of all, this RFA spawning
OP
OP
Well, I’m disappointed in my inability to keep SPS. They grow a bit, encrust a bit, then boom RTN! But…. I’m no craven. God didn’t put me on this earth to be scared of some little pieces of coral…. I’ve resolved to keep fighting the good fight until I figure it out. There are a few things I think could be the culprit and I plan to address them all over a three month “transition period” and then leave the tank to its own devices for the remainder of the year. It starts tomorrow… Here is my 5-step plan of attack:
- Improve the microbiome – I’ve long suspected the biggest issue is the microbiome… Some articles and anecdotal evidence like this( https://reefbuilders.com/2017/07/08/revisiting-my-elos-tank-after-18-months/ )has only reinforced that view. I’ve got 8 pounds of KP aquatics live reef rubble curing in a 5 gallon bucket which I plan to add in a week or two. I’m also going to add some live sand or reef rubble from Tampa Bay salt water once they resume shipping in May. The name of the game here is diversity. I’m also going scuba diving in Curaco in May and plan to grab a small piece of rock and bring it home (shhhh don’t tell anyone)!!
- Elevate the PH – My PH averages 8.25 during the day and 8.0-8.1 during the night, I’d like to get this up so the average is 8.3. I’m installing a Co2 scrubber, hooking it up to my Milwaukee PH probe, and making it recirculating as well. I’m convinced Co2 is the root of my PH issue since I’m in a Manhattan condo with my GF and the PH jumps noticeable when the windows are open. If the Co2 scrubber doesn’t suffice ill add a kalk stirrer during the evenings… Again, not accepting defeat here.
- Improve lighting – While folks have successfully kept SPS under ReefLed 90s, its not quite optimal in terms of spectrum, distribution/shadowing, and to a lesser extent PAR. I plan to supplement with 2 AI Blade Glows which will combat shadowing which is a problem with my vertical acquascape. Prior to installation I’ll retest my Par to re-establish what levels all my coral are at. Then I’ll install the Blade’s and play around with them for a few hours until I achieve my desired par / aesthetic. After that I’ll revert to the old lighting and set the blades on acclimation mode on for 100 days to slowly transition from the previous lighting to the target lighting. This will hopefully get me a bit more par on the awkward spots in my aquascape and a bit more spread for SPS.
- Raise Nitrates – as noted above, my nitrates have consistently hovered around 1 ppm. I believe this is because I have some anerobic spots in my sand bed where denitrification is taking place. I’m slowly syphoning out sand until its 0.5”-1.0” deep. If this works and my nitrates climb above 10 I’ll begin carbon dosing to keep them around 10. (Maybe its occurring in the rock but I read a Chinese paper disproving the whole “denitrification happens deep in the rock”.)
- Leave it be: sounds simple enough, but over engineering may be my biggest kryptonite in reefing. After I get the ship pointed to True North with these changes, there will be no more tinkering for the rest of 2024 (I’m still going to spend a fortune on coral though regardless ).
Gumbies R Us
Another Fish in the Sea
Sounds like a great attack plan! Hopefully that'll allow you to keep some amazing sps!
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