Wrasse breathing heavily

[timocean]

Hi there,

My wrasse is lying on the floor breathing heavily, occasionally swimming and not eating. Is in the tank since a year, and no new additions lately. Gills seem reddish (see photo).
Water parameters: NH3 0, NO2 0.1, NO3 15.
All other fishes are fine.
The NO2 is too high, is that the problem? If so, how to lower fast and safely?
Bonus question: why could it be so high? Tank running since 1.5 years and no problems or changes lately.

Thanks!

 

[Slocke]

#fishmedic
There doesn’t seem to be a photo?
That nitrate is not high at all.

 

[timocean]

#fishmedic
There doesn’t seem to be a photo?
That nitrate is not high at all.

Ups photos there now.
I meant nitrite at 0.1 too high?!

 

[timocean]

Ups photos there now.
I meant nitrite at 0.1 too high?!

Also just measured ph at 7.6 which seems worrying.

 

[timocean]

Also just measured ph at 7.6 which seems worrying.

Just recalibrate PH probe. Is 8.14 now.
Fish still struggling…

 

[Jay Hemdal]

0.10 nitrite is most likely an artifact of the test you are using. Marine fish can tolerate ten times that amount with no issues though.

The low pH could have been from high carbon dioxide, which in turn can cause rapid breathing, but you ruled that out with your probe calibration. Still, be sure the tank has good aeration.

What other fish are in this tank?
Any symptoms with them?

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi there,

My wrasse is lying on the floor breathing heavily, occasionally swimming and not eating. Is in the tank since a year, and no new additions lately. Gills seem reddish (see photo).
Water parameters: NH3 0, NO2 0.1, NO3 15.
All other fishes are fine.
The NO2 is too high, is that the problem? If so, how to lower fast and safely?
Bonus question: why could it be so high? Tank running since 1.5 years and no problems or changes lately.

Thanks!

A little skinny or this type of fish?
Any damage to moth you can see that may suggest crashing into object?
Anything missing and decaying in the tank that may have driven up number which I agree are not toxic to many species of marine fish?

 

[timocean]

thanks for the replies.
I have as other fish: two clowns, 3 pseudoanthias, Chelmon, yellow tang, A. pyroferus, V. puellaris, fridmani, S. splendidus. They all eat but seem a bit shy to me. not sure if later is due to the fact that I moved the mp40 4cm below the water surface for aeration, where it sucks some air now and then.

The wrasses mouth is quite open, maybe due to breathing. Otherwise, yes a bit skinny, but no other marks or so. Except the red gill on one side.

The nitrite test is tropic Marin’s. Have now dosed 10ml/100L nite out II.
Any other tips for increasing the survival chance are more than welcome. Thanks!

 

[timocean]

Just bought another ammonia test, this time salifert (before red sea): salifert shows <0.15. despite doing some googling not sure how to interpret, as there is also white field (<0.15 is a bit milky and not crystal clear).
Any suggestions welcome!

 

[timocean]

Have now tested my source water and got same numbers for ammonia and nitrite. so replaced nitrite test with salifert which shows 0 now. so I can think that I can, as suggested, rule out nitrite.
@Jay Hemdal Based on the other fishes and values do you have any other hint? Have an Aristotelian in the sump, but wrasse still the same. Other fish also seem a bit spooked now. Some did not eat during their dinner time. Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Have now tested my source water and got same numbers for ammonia and nitrite. so replaced nitrite test with salifert which shows 0 now. so I can think that I can, as suggested, rule out nitrite.
@Jay Hemdal Based on the other fishes and values do you have any other hint? Have an Aristotelian in the sump, but wrasse still the same. Other fish also seem a bit spooked now. Some did not eat during their dinner time. Thanks!

Sorry, not much to go on here. Can you post a video of the whole tank and then a close up of the wrasse?

Wrasse have high oxygen requirements, I’m just worried that there is a low oxygen issue at work here…..

Jay

 

[timocean]

Thanks Jay. After I thought yesterday, that the situation is better, as most fishes seemed rather normal and the wrasse was still alive, it went unfortunately worse today. Wrasse has disappeared and one clown also breathes heavily (see video below). Now he is lying on the side and it looks like he will die too.

Could this be a disease? Cannot see any white spots or velvet or something. Haven't added fishes since February, 4th. But corals 15 days ago, which I dipped in CoralRX. Are there any in tank treatment options?

Here are the videos:
Clown breathing:
Wrasse dying (it is dead now):
Full Tank:

 

[Jay Hemdal]

When it was just the wrasse being affected, a major communicable disease could be ruled out. Now that the clownfish has the same issue, it seems more likely that it is something contagious. However, there are two common diseases that cause rapid breathing, each with different treatments - Amyloodinium (velvet) and gill flukes. Without a microscope, it can be difficult to tell them apart, you need to go with the symptoms. Velvet tends to involve most/all fish and kills quickly, in days. Gill flukes comes on more slowly, will not affect every species, and fish will die over weeks. However, gill flukes do NOT cause rapid onset of rapid breathing - the fish generally start breathing faster over a week's time, not overnight. That said, home aquarists often miss the early symptoms of breathing that is becoming more rapid.

There is no in-display treatment for velvet, you would need to remove all of the fish and treat them in a hospital tank with copper. Gill flukes can be treated with praziquantel. However, I will tell you that once a fish begins breathing as quickly as the wrasse and clownfish are/were, prazi doesn't usually work in time to save them.

Jay

 

[timocean]

Thanks, Jay! Since I was not home last week and I came back to this, I could have missed the onset. Since also most fish are fine, I would then take a bet on the gill flukes. Unfortunately, praziquantel does not seem to be available in Germany. So, should I give Dactymor Forte a try?

DACTYMOR FORTE - Aquarium Münster

www.aquarium-munster.com

 

[timocean]

Thanks, Jay! Since I was not home last week and I came back to this, I could have missed the onset. Since also most fish are fine, I would then take a bet on the gill flukes. Unfortunately, praziquantel does not seem to be available in Germany. So, should I give Dactymor Forte a try?

DACTYMOR FORTE - Aquarium Münster

www.aquarium-munster.com

Also, since I have not brought in new fish to bring a disease, I was thinking if accidentially something could have contaminated the tank, cleaning detergents or so. Could that also explain the symptoms?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, since I have not brought in new fish to bring a disease, I was thinking if accidentially something could have contaminated the tank, cleaning detergents or so. Could that also explain the symptoms?

Very unlikely to be a toxin. Any toxin that would cause severe symptoms and death in one fish, would show symptoms in the others. Also, toxins tend to be worse right at first, not gradually get worse over time.
Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks, Jay! Since I was not home last week and I came back to this, I could have missed the onset. Since also most fish are fine, I would then take a bet on the gill flukes. Unfortunately, praziquantel does not seem to be available in Germany. So, should I give Dactymor Forte a try?

DACTYMOR FORTE - Aquarium Münster

www.aquarium-munster.com

I’ve not used Cyromyzine myself, but other people have reported it works against flukes.
Jay

 

[timocean]

Thanks for the info, Jay. Based on your comment and what I found in the forum, I gave it a try. The treatment was quite cumbersome, as it involved 15%, 75% and 50% of water changes during the two days of treatment. Two hours, after I have applied the medicine, the clown fish, which was before whole day lying on the side and breathing heavily, started swimming around. Overall, my impression was that the fish in total seemed more agile. However, it is of course hard to say if it is due to the medicine, or also due to the massive water changes.

Anyhow, one day later the clown passed, and three days later my Z. flavescens passed. The Z. flavescens was actually one of the most normal looking fish in the tank, so this was quite a shock. AFAIK, there is now two Anthias, a Chelmon, a Chromis, a fridmani, an A. polyferus, a S. splendidus and a V. puellaris left. Though I cannot see the later two this morning. The Chelmon seems most normal and is eating, although less intensively. Needless to say, how frustrated I am in general!

My plan is to treat one more time with Cyromizine, and I do now 20% WC every two days.

******
@Jay Hemdal
SO HERE IS MY QUESTION: Does it make sense, to treat with an oversized UV to get rid of whatever this is? I could get an 80W Deltec UVC at a LFS. My tank size is 120G, and This would cost 350€ and require 2,5hrs of driving. If there is any chance that it helps, I would sure invest it. But if I am fighting a fight, that is already lost, I would rather safe my energy as the last week was quite tough already.
******

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the info, Jay. Based on your comment and what I found in the forum, I gave it a try. The treatment was quite cumbersome, as it involved 15%, 75% and 50% of water changes during the two days of treatment. Two hours, after I have applied the medicine, the clown fish, which was before whole day lying on the side and breathing heavily, started swimming around. Overall, my impression was that the fish in total seemed more agile. However, it is of course hard to say if it is due to the medicine, or also due to the massive water changes.

Anyhow, one day later the clown passed, and three days later my Z. flavescens passed. The Z. flavescens was actually one of the most normal looking fish in the tank, so this was quite a shock. AFAIK, there is now two Anthias, a Chelmon, a Chromis, a fridmani, an A. polyferus, a S. splendidus and a V. puellaris left. Though I cannot see the later two this morning. The Chelmon seems most normal and is eating, although less intensively. Needless to say, how frustrated I am in general!

My plan is to treat one more time with Cyromizine, and I do now 20% WC every two days.

******
@Jay Hemdal
SO HERE IS MY QUESTION: Does it make sense, to treat with an oversized UV to get rid of whatever this is? I could get an 80W Deltec UVC at a LFS. My tank size is 120G, and This would cost 350€ and require 2,5hrs of driving. If there is any chance that it helps, I would sure invest it. But if I am fighting a fight, that is already lost, I would rather safe my energy as the last week was quite tough already.
******

Sorry to hear.

It is unlikely (really impossible) that a UV of any size would help if it is flukes - larval flukes are too large to be killed by hobbyist sized units (those often can’t even control protozoans). Then, of course the UV won’t do anything for flukes on the fish themselves.
Jay

 

[timocean]

Sorry to hear.

It is unlikely (really impossible) that a UV of any size would help if it is flukes - larval flukes are too large to be killed by hobbyist sized units (those often can’t even control protozoans). Then, of course the UV won’t do anything for flukes on the fish themselves.
Jay

Thanks for the assessment.
Here is a photo of the dead Z. flavescens. When zooming in it appears that the finns have dark borders. Could that be an indicator for the cause of death?
#fishmedic