YOUR OPINION- are fish truly happy in captivity?

[Lyss]

Fish are neither happy of sad. They don't have the capacity. They may be more active and look better when their needs are better met, and appear "happy" but they are nevertheless not "happy"... or for that matter "sad"... they just exist. The respond without cognitive thought to stimuli. While responses can be conditioned, it is not "learning". That said, I think there is some benefit to thinking of positive responses as "happy" since it means that they are in a environment that meets its needs.

I mean, they're not plants. They're sentient and do have brains and a central nervous system. They are also quick learners with memories -- I'm often intrigued by the memory bit, esp when my female clown saw an amphipod on the sand in one particular spot one day and now goes to that same spot every day looking for more. And my puffers are on a whole other level. I'm very fascinated by this kind of thing, and never was until I started to keep fish and observe their behavior.

Here are some interesting articles:

Fish Have Feelings, Too

Fish have emotions, social needs, and intelligence. Meet scientists exploring the inner lives of our aquatic friends.

www.pbs.org

It's Official: Fish Feel Pain

The verdict is in. But will our oceanic friends ever get the same legal protections as land animals?

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[Miami Reef]

Are the fish in captivity happy? Who knows, but I’d bet they are happier than the tangs and tuna that get caught for sushi.

 

[ColoredRock]

My Blenny does hold on to the soap pretty tightly.

Thank you for that! LOL

 

[MillennialReefer]

This was mentioned earlier, I think small Nano fish in a relatively big tank are probably the happiest. Since in the wild they don't tend to swim far away from their area, and usually hang out in more or less the same spot and wait for food. IMO I think any fish that would spawn (even if you cant/dont raise the fry) in a home aquarium regardless of size is probably happy and comfortable to do so.

 

[alain Bouchard]

I totally disagree with people saying fish "cant" have feeling. Maybe in nature where they are constantly on the lookout about potential predators, they don't have time to develop more complex emotions. But I believe after years in a tank with different stimuli, they can develop certain things we could consider as happiness. IE, when you always feed them at the same time, and lets say, on Friday its the live food day; they will develop some kind of expectation at that day for their preferred meal. Can that be some kind of complex emotion which they wouldn't develop in nature where they only eat what is available and when it is? And there are certainly race of fishes and crustaceans that are more prone to have these cognition.

 

[Tamberav]

Are fish truly happy in captivity?

Some fish have lower stress and all the food they can eat in captivity with sufficient hiding spots and friendly tank makes and a lower stocking level.

Others die in new tanks or live in filth or the owner gets busy and neglects the tank or they fight all day with their neighbors and bump fins in a busy tank.

Just like any other pet... it depends. Some people tie their dogs outside and ignore them all day. Others take their dog to agility and obedience or play dates.

There are good and bad pet owners.

Obviously meeting the needs of a very large active fish or ones with very specific diet is more difficult then most small fish.

 

[ReefGeezer]

They're sentient and do have brains and a central nervous system.

They are not technically sentient i.e responsive to, or conscious of impressions; self aware;
or sensitive in perception or feeling. I agree that fish are not plants. A fish has a central nervous system and is certainly aware of physical stimuli and responds to them. It also has a brain. However it is small and doesn't have the capacity to do much more than respond to stimuli based on innate or conditioned responses. There is no brain capacity for emotion or self awareness... you know... the "I think, therefore I am" thing.

 

[Timfish]

When I see fish swim up to strangers that doesn't strike me as a stressed or unhappy fish. And having fish outlive their wild counterparts, in some cases 10X or 15X longer than what's documented for wild specimens, then throw in the educational and emotional benefits and I'm more than comfortable keeping reef systems.

 

[davidcalgary29]

I just rehomed two fish from another aquarist who kept them with a large, aggressive harlequin tuskfish. They now get a tank to themselves without the risk of getting chewed in half! I'd say that they're happier in their new home.

Rescue fish are a special consideration -- you're not directly involved in the supply trade, but are helping them thrive in conditions in which they might have been harmed. And I don't think that my fish would be particularly happy if I released them into the Peace River. Although it's still unfrozen, even at the edges! It's been a mild November.

 

[Lyss]

They are not technically sentient i.e responsive to, or conscious of impressions; self aware;
or sensitive in perception or feeling. I agree that fish are not plants. A fish has a central nervous system and is certainly aware of physical stimuli and responds to them. It also has a brain. However it is small and doesn't have the capacity to do much more than respond to stimuli based on innate or conditioned responses. There is no brain capacity for emotion or self awareness... you know... the "I think, therefore I am" thing.

They absolutely are sentient. Did you read the scientific articles I linked to?

Also, another fascinating thing to look up -- plants respond to stimuli. They are, however, not sentient.

 

[ZoWhat]

I mean, they're not plants. They're sentient and do have brains and a central nervous system. They are also quick learners with memories --

Except for Dory, clueless....

 

[davidcalgary29]

They are not technically sentient i.e responsive to, or conscious of impressions; self aware;
or sensitive in perception or feeling. I agree that fish are not plants. A fish has a central nervous system and is certainly aware of physical stimuli and responds to them. It also has a brain. However it is small and doesn't have the capacity to do much more than respond to stimuli based on innate or conditioned responses. There is no brain capacity for emotion or self awareness... you know... the "I think, therefore I am" thing.

You know, I spent an hour or two yesterday watching my gold head goby swim around the tank, picking up certain gravel pieces, and...decorating the front of its burrow. It's actually very particular about this. The gravel/coral pieces are distributed evenly in a fan around the opening, and are swapped out regularly. It's either auditioning for the next Home Design Challenge or is building a massive defensive fortification. Knowing gobies, my money's on the latter.

I mean, yeah, I had a pair of clownfish that just bobbed up and down over the same piece of bald rock all day, but I've underestimated the intelligence of a number of fish -- particularly the angels. And what about urchins? They don't have a brain...or really, eyes...and yet they zero in on nori whenever I put a new sheet in the tank! Remarkable.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

Domesticated animals are the happy ones in captivity. Others have instincts and a pursuit to survival that override that luxury. I tend to think my fish would rather take their chances in the wild (much like myself during the lockdowns) but then I drop some LRS food in the tank. Watching as the piggies chow down (getting fat and round) I say to them, yeeeah right, you guys wouldn’t last five minutes in the deep blue.

 

[ZoWhat]

They absolutely are sentient. Did you read the scientific articles I linked to?

Also, another fascinating thing to look up -- plants respond to stimuli. They are, however, not sentient.

Explain why my Tangs keep ordering food from BRS thru my Apex Controller when I'm not home... sentient

 

[Lyss]

You know, I spent an hour or two yesterday watching my gold head goby swim around the tank, picking up certain gravel pieces, and...decorating the front of its burrow. It's actually very particular about this. The gravel/coral pieces are distributed evenly in a fan around the opening, and are swapped out regularly. It's either auditioning for the next Home Design Challenge or is building a massive defensive fortification. Knowing gobies, my money's on the latter.

I mean, yeah, I had a pair of clownfish that just bobbed up and down over the same piece of bald rock all day, but I've underestimated the intelligence of a number of fish -- particularly the angels. And what about urchins? They don't have a brain...or really, eyes...and yet they zero in on nori whenever I put a new sheet in the tank! Remarkable.

If we all really want to get philosophical we can debate sentience vs sapience, and whether sapience must include the ability to exhibit self-awareness, or if it's just the ability to apply concepts without necessarily needing to exhibit self awareness.

 

[Forty-Two]

They absolutely are sentient. Did you read the scientific articles I linked to?

Also, another fascinating thing to look up -- plants respond to stimuli. They are, however, not sentient.

This is actually up for debate - the ‘plants are not sentient’ part. Recent research has revealed that plants do talk to one another on a frequency we previously did not know about. They also shriek when they are cut or injured.
Lastly - it’s been observed previously that trees will actually use their roots to communicate, and even go so far as to hold up another tree that is dying or collapsing. Typically a community of trees will attempt to help a sick tree survive with their roots by supporting it.

 

[Lyss]

This is actually up for debate - the ‘plants are not sentient’ part. Recent research has revealed that plants do talk to one another on a frequency we previously did not know about. They also shriek when they are cut or injured.
Lastly - it’s been observed previously that trees will actually use their roots to communicate, and even go so far as to hold up another tree that is dying or collapsing. Typically a community of trees will attempt to help a sick tree survive with their roots by supporting it.

I agree it's become more up for debate in an interesting way beyond the whole 70s "plants respond to music" mumbo jumbo. I just wasn't sure we were ready for that in this thread

They do not, however, have a brain or central nervous system. But the weirdly cool thing I've begun to read about is that some researchers are beginning to liken the root system to a form of central nervous system -- and roots do indeed respond in interesting ways, like they can detect an "other" plant and grow away from those roots. They also do "talk" by releasing chemicals -- this mostly helps with things like attracting pest-eating insects when they have pests like aphids or mealybugs on them. And mycology is fascinating b/c there is communication between fungi and plants when plants are stressed. Very fascinating.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

It demonstrates the grand hubris of man to look at another life form and declare “this is not sentient nor does it feel, as it does not share my appearance nor structure”.

we can’t even decide on the nature of consciousness. Yet we somehow can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that these other things we don’t truly understand are categorically x (sentient) or y (non sentient).

 

[BiggestE22]

Are fish truly happy in captivity?

Fish are not self aware so I don’t think an emotion like happy would apply.

 

[MichaelReefer]

As long as they are in an adequate sized tank, I say yes. I mean, nothing is trying to eat them.