YOUR OPINION- are fish truly happy in captivity?

[Karen00]

If fish have memories then the wild caught ones probably miss their homes but if we give them everything they need to thrive (not just survive) then they will most likely be happy with us. The same applies to captive bred and depending on where/how they're bred they might be better off in our homes. I have no doubt they feel stress and pain so we better be providing them everything they need so they don't experience either of these. In the absence of these that's probably happiness for a fish. I also have to wonder with pollution ravaging our waters (fresh and salt) that maybe they're better off with us for that simple reason.

 

[ZoWhat]

Fish are not self aware so I don’t think an emotion like happy would apply.

Yet a larger Scopas Tang is self aware enough to see the introduction of a Yellow Tang as a competitor and start to corner the YT and nip the YTs fins off.

Self aware enough to do my taxes or give me a Christmas gift? No.

But IMO (did I offend anyone yet?), they are self aware enough to have emotions like "comfort, danger, depression (by starving)" and the like.

Yes I've personally seen a depressed hippo hang out in a corner until I bought another Tang. When the other Tang came into the environment the Hippo swam about the tank, in what appeared to be a much happier state...night n day difference


.

 

[mike89t]

I’m pretty sure my fish are happy. Look how happy this guy looks. Always came out to greet me.

 

[ZoWhat]

So I Googled definition of "happy"

The definition of happy is someone or something that is feeling great pleasure or joy. ... Having, showing, or causing a feeling of great pleasure, contentment, joy, etc.; joyous; glad; pleased.

I think fish can express contentment... joy If you will. ive seen Tangs swim "happily" in a jetstream of waterflow, playfully

 

[Bad Company]

What people tend to forget about in the Disney era of film, is how brutal nature is. For instance 90% of wild Turkey hatchlings don't survive to grow up as adults. Assuming the sea is similar (predation, starvation, disease) etc. we can assume we are certainly providing longer lives for our aquatic pets on average.

If my fish are well fed, good looking, and have healthy behavior (I also have 14 smaller fish in 180 gallon tank); I assume that they are happy.

 

[Paul B]

I doubt fish feel happy, sad, anxious, rueful, apprehensive, antagonistic, trepidation, lonely or anything else.

They do get scared and they are always hungry. In my tank they mostly live long enough to die of old age and never feel sickness so I would imagine, if they could feel happy, my fish are happy.

This guy is happy and I can tell because he is smiling with his bottom teeth



This guy is almost 40 years old and still spawning so I know he is happy.

 

[BiggestE22]

Yet a larger Scopas Tang is self aware enough to see the introduction of a Yellow Tang as a competitor and start to corner the YT and nip the YTs fins off.

Self aware enough to do my taxes or give me a Christmas gift? No.

But IMO (did I offend anyone yet?), they are self aware enough to have emotions like "comfort, danger, depression (by starving)" and the like.

Yes I've personally seen a depressed hippo hang out in a corner until I bought another Tang. When the other Tang came into the environment the Hippo swam about the tank, in what appeared to be a much happier state...night n day difference


.

You might have a point. I have a cinnamon clown hat stated in one corner of the tank and only came out to eat. When I purchased a Regsl Blue Tang which is very active. The tang started following the clown around and eventually the clownfish became much more active. My six line mostly ignored the other 2 fish

 

[kittenbritches]

What is happiness?

 

[GHOSTLY]

My clowns host my hand sometimes

 

[av8soulfly]

They are not technically sentient i.e responsive to, or conscious of impressions; self aware;
or sensitive in perception or feeling. I agree that fish are not plants. A fish has a central nervous system and is certainly aware of physical stimuli and responds to them. It also has a brain. However it is small and doesn't have the capacity to do much more than respond to stimuli based on innate or conditioned responses. There is no brain capacity for emotion or self awareness... you know... the "I think, therefore I am" thing.

Fish are definitely sentient beings. It has been proven that they feel pain like other animals can. A study was done where some fish were anesthetized and some were not. All the fish in the group were exposed to a mild electrical shock. Those that were anesthetized showed very little stress. The other fish showed substantial signs of stress.

Zoochosis is when animals in captivity pace back and forth, or show neurotic behaviors, which is a sign of stress or unhappiness. So if you have an animal in your tank showing Zoochosis, then I would say he/she is not happy.

As stated several times in this thread, I think it depends on the tank, the fish, and the care given. Larger free swimming fish should be left in the ocean, whereas smaller fish that typically stay in one small part of a reef could be kept in aquaria. The problem is where does one draw the line?

 

[NoahLikesFish]

My clowns host my hand sometimes

my puffer and filefish try to eat my hand sometimes

 

[Sean_B]

I believe anyone who keeps pets/animals should ask this question, although keeping pets vs keeping animals have enormous differences. Domestication 10,000 plus years ago had nothing to do with pet keeping.

Anyway, more to the topic. I don't think that a fish's conscious awareness is close to ours, not to say they can't have "feelings" but feelings not like humans have.

When we consider captivity, do we also accept that we are captive? After all, we live in houses most of us haven't built. We consume food most of us haven't personally gathered. We rely mostly on "man-made" medications. We stay close to cities/civilization mainly because we are "captive" in a way. There is almost nothing natural about any of these living conditions, yet we continue along as if they were inherent or even instinctive.

I attempt to respect any and all life especially if I make a decision to "keep pets". Any animal we keep, we have a complete 100% responsibility to do everything within our power to allow it a happy, healthy existence. If we cannot do this, we should considerately not indulge.

I do find it personally rewarding to have and care for animals. I also think that anyone who would take the time to share thoughts on a forum like this probably cares a lot about their fish.

-Sean

 

[ZoWhat]

What is happiness?

When @kittenbritches gives me a laughing emoji on a stupid yet witty statement I've made

 

[OrchidMiss]

I’m pretty sure my fish are happy. Look how happy this guy looks. Always came out to greet me.

SO CUTE!! looks very happy to me! Look at the little smile!

 

[ZoWhat]

A study was done where some fish were anesthetized and some were not. All the fish in the group were exposed to a mild electrical shock. Those that were anesthetized showed very little stress. The other fish showed substantial signs of stress.

Can I sign-up when the researchers do a study anesthetizing Hobbyists?

 

[kittenbritches]

When @kittenbritches gives me a laughing emoji on a stupid yet witty statement I've made

That just made my whole day!!

 

[Grumblez]

Fish are neither happy of sad. They don't have the capacity. They may be more active and look better when their needs are better met, and appear "happy" but they are nevertheless not "happy"... or for that matter "sad"... they just exist. The respond without cognitive thought to stimuli. While responses can be conditioned, it is not "learning". That said, I think there is some benefit to thinking of positive responses as "happy" since it means that they are in a environment that meets its needs.

In philosphy in College i wrote my final on wheter or not animals can experience "meaning". I did bad in that class up until this point when the basics of philosophy and how to write a philosophy paper kind of clicked for me. But my basic argument was animals may not experience "meaning" but they definitely have purpose. We would not expect a deer to wake up one morning and think to itself what was the meaning in my life but for example if a mother deer's offspring is killed it unmistakably probably experiences grief because its purpose has been taken away.

Or to use a relevant example if you've ever tried raising clowns if you pull the eggs its kind of heart breaking to watch the parents freak out looking for them. On that same note Coral and Marlin will happily chomp down on any fry that have escaped the filters and power heads the next morning if you don't. So while animals brains to varying levels aren't as complex as ours and most not capable of "self awareness" it doesn't make the emotions they feel any less real.

They are not technically sentient i.e responsive to, or conscious of impressions; self aware;
or sensitive in perception or feeling. I agree that fish are not plants. A fish has a central nervous system and is certainly aware of physical stimuli and responds to them. It also has a brain. However it is small and doesn't have the capacity to do much more than respond to stimuli based on innate or conditioned responses. There is no brain capacity for emotion or self awareness... you know... the "I think, therefore I am" thing.

A very similar argument is also made about human minds though, we are simply conditioned and respond to positive and negative stimuli. Every choice you make every day is a combination of conscious and subconscious lived experience, basal needs and wants, and your hormones. While a fishes mental capability and ability to learn is much more limited, its decisions follow a similar logic pattern.

 

[TheDragonsReef]

So ive been in this hobby for 20 years now and ive definitely seen "sad" fish and "happy" fish. I would consider stressed and sad to be the same for a fish and things that can bring about stress are bad water quality, disease, poor food quality and not enough swimming space. Signs of stress are usually that the fish is hiding most of the time (although that is the nature of some fish) but say if a tang is always hiding and not freely swimming something is usually wrong. And when fish are in too small of a tank theyll usually show it by swimming in circles and constantly swimming into the glass. Attacking its reflection is not the same, and just them being aggressive.

A happy fish should be displaying its natural behaviors youd see in the ocean. Constantly swimming in and out of the rock work, if its an algae grazer they should be picking at the rock work, etc. Also in captivity they should begin to recognize you and regularly come up to the glass when your around cause they know youll bring the food.

If you ever want to see what happy looks like, you just need to see my moray get a wiff of salmon haha but we also keep dogs and cats in confined areas and we can tell when theyre happy, and its almost always during our interactions with them. We can interact with the fish too by hand or tong feeding and even just playing with them in front of the glass.

 

[Quietman]

Ugh.

No. They are not. Nor are they "truly happy" in the wild. They are fish.

Disney anthropromorphism aside we can't judge a fish's assessment of it's comparative condition let alone it's emotional state of being.

Best we can is provide the best environment we can as responsible hobbyists so animals in our care are healthy and have long as possible life spans.

I don't spend any time comparing my 50% (that's probably optimistic) survival rate to wild survival chances. I hate losing one fish and I don't feel better knowing its odds of living long as it did were higher with me.

As an aside. "Self aware" isn't demonstrating learned behavioral responses to environmental conditions. Those are necessary for species survival. Running away from a predator or hanging out in a prime feeding location doesn't necessarily mean an animal is self aware or making logical reasoned decisions.

 

[ZoWhat]

That just made my whole day!!