Your Resident Electrician for all your electrical questions!

[Paul B]

It is hard to calculate without knowing the amps or watts of the motor. But for instance if he uses #14 wire and runs it 40' and if the motor draws 50 watts, and is 12 volts. He will end up with 9.9 volts at the motor.

Using #16 wire, he would end up at the motor with 8.6 volts out of the original 12 volts. If that is not a problem, go for it.

If he used #18 wire, he would end up with 6.7 volts at the motor. Which probably wouldn't run it.

I doubled the length of the run because you have to figure the supply and return of the wire so it would be 80'.

Thats why battery cables in a car are so big and it is only 12 volts. Voltage drop with DC is a lot which is why, because of Tesla we use AC in our houses although Thomas Edison wanted us to use DC. which can't be transmitted very far at all.

 

[West1]

It is hard to calculate without knowing the amps or watts of the motor. But for instance if he uses #14 wire and runs it 40' and if the motor draws 50 watts, and is 12 volts. He will end up with 9.9 volts at the motor.

Using #16 wire, he would end up at the motor with 8.6 volts out of the original 12 volts. If that is not a problem, go for it.

If he used #18 wire, he would end up with 6.7 volts at the motor. Which probably wouldn't run it.

I doubled the length of the run because you have to figure the supply and return of the wire so it would be 80'.

Thats why battery cables in a car are so big and it is only 12 volts. Voltage drop with DC is a lot which is why, because of Tesla we use AC in our houses although Thomas Edison wanted us to use DC. which can't be transmitted very far at all.

I don’t understand electrical that well. The way it looks to me is the Tunze socket has a type of relay to the Tunze 3155 controller that tell the pump to turn on. The extension relay wire is what I would like to lengthen by 40’ or so.
Do you think I’d need to math out the relay wire?

 

[Paul B]

No, if it is just the wire to control the relay you can use almost any wire you have laying around, even cheap extension cord wire.

 

[WVNed]

The 3155 has a setting for pumping power. The pump is listed as a
Replacement dosing pump with low voltage 3-12 V DC for Osmolator®, power with 4 mm (.2") hose at 12 V:
.9 m - 100 l/h (35.4" - 26.4 USgal.),...

From the directions
Setting the pumping power “Dosing power” The dosing pump can be set by means of the internal potentiometer in the controller (4). “nano” setting: small aquariums, for a maximum pumping height of 1.0m (39 in.). “medium” setting, delivery condition: medium-sized aquariums, for a maximum pumping height of 2.8m (110 in.). “max” setting: aquariums up to 1,000L (264 USgal.), for a maximum pumping height of 3.9m (154 in.). This setting is also required when using the switched socket outlet 3150.11!

This tells me the remote relay needs 12v or close to it to operate.

I would rig up what you want to do using a heavy extension cord I found on sale and cut the ends off of. If it then works reliably I would make it permanent. Heavy gauge stranded wire will have the least voltage drop over the distance.

Or

mount the relay near the 3155 controller and essentially run a long extension cord to the remote pump. I suspect this may be much easier to get to work reliably. Make sure the connections stay clean and dry. Perhaps use dielectric grease on them.

As Paul said it is easier to get AC to work over longer distances than DC. That is why Tesla won in the end and we use his power system.

 

[Andresnyc93]

I have a really odd question and hope you can figure this out for me. I live in a pre war building where the fuse box is from ancient history and uses the buss fuses posted below. Everything is usually running fine until summer time comes around and I’ll start to get a low Volt alert on my apex. I’m usually using about 145 watts at peak on my tank but sometimes when heater kicks in can go to 300’s. The low volts usually hover around 102-108 when it’s summer time. I’m just worried that one day I’ll lose power and I’m wondering if there’s anything I can do from an electricians point of view to fix this situation or how can I resolve this issue

 

[WVNed]

@Paul B
Are buck boosting transformers a big thing in New York?
In WV the phases supplied by the power company are so imbalanced I have had some experience with using them to stop AC compressors from dying.

 

[WVNed]

I have a really odd question and hope you can figure this out for me. I live in a pre war building where the fuse box is from ancient history and uses the buss fuses posted below. Everything is usually running fine until summer time comes around and I’ll start to get a low Volt alert on my apex. I’m usually using about 145 watts at peak on my tank but sometimes when heater kicks in can go to 300’s. The low volts usually hover around 102-108 when it’s summer time. I’m just worried that one day I’ll lose power and I’m wondering if there’s anything I can do from an electricians point of view to fix this situation or how can I resolve this issue

There are things that can be done but they involve the power company and electricians.

 

[Beau_B]

There are things that can be done but they involve the power company and electricians.

You forgot money!


@Andresnyc93 In all seriousness it really should be done. A panel replacement will be mandatory if you want to sell the home. Your insurance company already wants it to be done.

EDIT: I realized it was a NY "pre-war building" and perhaps not a single-family home. It's possible you don't have the ownership requirements to upgrade the electrical system.

 

[Andresnyc93]

You forgot money!


@Andresnyc93 In all seriousness it really should be done. A panel replacement will be mandatory if you want to sell the home. Your insurance company already wants it to be done.

EDIT: I realized it was a NY "pre-war building" and perhaps not a single-family home. It's possible you don't have the ownership requirements to upgrade the electrical system.

Yeah sadly it’s not my building I just rent a unit in the building and the landlord is too cheap to upgrade the electrical system in the building that’s why I was hoping there was something I could do on my end.

 

[Paul B]

Are buck boosting transformers a big thing in New York?

Yes in office buildings but not for a home, especially a rental. You can not do anything to boost that voltage as that is supplied by your power company. In the summer more people use AC which can slightly lower the voltage on your street. 102 volts sounds low so if that is true, you can call the power company when it is low and they can test and fix it. If it is 108, thats normal and they will ignore you.

Your plug fuse panel is fine. As a matter of fact they are safer than circuit breaker panels. They "upgraded" to circuit breakers because they are more convenient, expensive and you can use GFCI breakers on circuit breaker panels.

With your plug fuse panel you have to use GFCI receptacles.

Many electricians upgraded to new "plug fuse panels" like you have for safety because fuses like you have trip instantly and a circuit breaker is mechanical and subject to failure.

In the trade many times if we want to find a circuit we just short out the wire and go see which breaker tripped.

(Yes electricians do that constantly as it is the fastest way to find a circuit breaker)

Sometimes you can spark that thing many times before the breaker trips, but a fuse will blow instantly.

In commercial buildings "Federal Circuit breakers" were very common. Those would many times never trip and the wires would melt. They don't make them any longer.

If you are measuring that low voltage at your fuse panel, call the power company. If the panel power is 108 or more and at your outlet it is 102, call an electrician or move........Right away. That could be dangerous.

 

[Sleepydoc]

It is hard to calculate without knowing the amps or watts of the motor. But for instance if he uses #14 wire and runs it 40' and if the motor draws 50 watts, and is 12 volts. He will end up with 9.9 volts at the motor.

Using #16 wire, he would end up at the motor with 8.6 volts out of the original 12 volts. If that is not a problem, go for it.

If he used #18 wire, he would end up with 6.7 volts at the motor. Which probably wouldn't run it.

I doubled the length of the run because you have to figure the supply and return of the wire so it would be 80'.

Thats why battery cables in a car are so big and it is only 12 volts. Voltage drop with DC is a lot which is why, because of Tesla we use AC in our houses although Thomas Edison wanted us to use DC. which can't be transmitted very far at all.

Paul-
What this device does is take the 12V output from the Tunze Osmolator that normally powers the little DC ATO pump and use it to instead power a relay to control an AC pump. (I assume it's a Relay and not a TRIAC). I couldn't find the spec, but a 12V DC relay would typically draw about 100mA.

At that current, the voltage drop would only be about 160mV for a 100' run so they should be good!

 

[Discotu]

Hi all, after a few recent power outages I realized I need to supplement my current UPS backup system.

Currently I have a single Cyber Power UPS that helps with intermittent outages, but it only lasts around 30 mins or so.

I intended to remove the existing batteries and replace with a larger car battery but it runs on 24V so didn’t want to

spend extra on another car battery. So, this is my plan based largely on equipment I already have.

Currently my Cyber Power UPS is plugged into the wall running my EB832 and per my cyber power meter it draws around 100W.

I have a separate EB4 that powers my heater and lights plugged into the wall so no back up needed there.

Here’s my plan:

UPS will be plugged into an ATS that defaults to grid power. When the grid goes down, the ATS will switch to inverter power. Based on what I’ve seem most ATS have <50ms transfer speed so not sure how the APEX would react to the power flicker but the UPS should act as a buffer. Inverter will stay on powered by a deep cycle car battery which in turn is connected to a solar charge controller and 150W solar panel. In the interim I’ll likely just throw a trickle charger on the battery until I have the time to wire the solar panel.

Few questions:

The inverter I have is modified sinewave. I’ve tested on my UPS (pure sine wave) and it appears to work fine. Are there any issues “cleaning” the power from the inverter through the UPS?

The ATS is the only thing I really need to buy.

Im debating between a simple switch like this:



or future proof with something like this so I can eventually run part of my system off grid but have grid power as back up.




Looking for suggestions/recommendations or just poke holes in my logic. Again, I already have the equipment minus the ATS so LMK what you think.


Thanks!

 

[abacus]

After 25 years experiance on the field and 15 years at the office, as an electrican I think I can answer most of your questions.

Thanks to my fellow electricians for helping answering your question's.
And the team is:

Myself and
anemonekeeper



:wink:

Check out this electrical bonanza! 27 individually switched outlets, 3 full duplex timer switches (used relay so the time selection would be the time OFF. 6 USB, GFI. 2 circuits capable of 15A each. 5 additional outlets with USB for easy access outside on the front of cabinet. Usage Monitored and recorded in real time. All this contained on the "dry side " of the cabinet. Enjoy.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Check out this electrical bonanza! 27 individually switched outlets, 3 full duplex timer switches (used relay so the time selection would be the time OFF. 6 USB, GFI. 2 circuits capable of 15A each. 5 additional outlets with USB for easy access outside on the front of cabinet. Usage Monitored and recorded in real time. All this contained on the "dry side " of the cabinet. Enjoy.

It's not legal, but it looks very nice! Good job!!

 

[JumboShrimp]

More wiring than the Space Shuttle. (Lol). Very impressive!

 

[abacus]

It's not legal, but it looks very nice! Good job!!

Oooo I would LOVE and greatly appreciate any fixes that I could make to make this legal. My buddy did this install and he's a master electrician but I'm sure that he had never done anything like this and probablyhad no codes he was following.? I don't know squat in regards to electrical matters so I gave him full liberty to just implement the SketchUp design that I showed him and a couple of other nitpicky add-ons. I sure hope it's safe, now I'm worried. It's been up and running now for a few months without any problems. Thanks for any pointers you might have.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Oooo I would LOVE and greatly appreciate any fixes that I could make to make this legal. My buddy did this install and he's a master electrician but I'm sure that he had never done anything like this and probablyhad no codes he was following.? I don't know squat in regards to electrical matters so I gave him full liberty to just implement the SketchUp design that I showed him and a couple of other nitpicky add-ons. I sure hope it's safe, now I'm worried. It's been up and running now for a few months without any problems. Thanks for any pointers you might have.

I'm not saying anything about changing anything it looks amazing, it looks extremely clean and done right, I would only be referring to the exposed NM cable talking about "legal" but if it's not tied in to the electrical panel and plugs in for power, then that shouldn't matter, either way it looks very good and Good work!!

Did you design this system first before you built it? I like the tank with it, its a complete package it all looks well thought out I wouldn't be surprised if someone has a little engineering background

 

[abacus]

Oh right that makes sense! Thanks for your reply and I appreciate your compliments. I did design this from the ground up after being tormented for decades with mishmashed hodge-podged ill-conceived tanks. So I decided to build my own from ground up which was going to include everything that I've always wanted, fully automated, structurally bomb proof and have beautiful ease of access to everything. Here's a few pics of the initial design, a few small iterations were made but about 95% of it remained true to the plans.

 

[Paul B]

It's not legal, but it looks very nice! Good job!!

If you did everything legal you wouldn't get much done. Remember the people who write codes and inspect wiring are in most cases not electricians but paper pushers who spent to much time in College learning theory and politics.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

If you did everything legal you wouldn't get much done. Remember the people who write codes and inspect wiring are in most cases not electricians but paper pushers who spent to much time in College learning theory and politics.

Written by lawyers, and understood by no one..