Zoa ID please

BRS

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Hello, I am new to reefing and have been using this site for months and have learned a lot and avoided a lot of stupid mistakes from what I have read. That being said, I can’t seem to find what kind of zoa’s I have. I got these from a buddy a month ago but he has no idea what they are and google hasn’t been much help either. I want to eventually add another zoa frag to the rock and I want to know what would grow well with these and what wouldn’t overtake my existing colony (or what wouldn’t be overtaken by what I already have!) If you can’t tell from the blue light, they have a yellow center and an orange ring. Thanks in advance :)

image.jpg image.jpg
Edit: Sorry if I made this thread in the wrong place. I just made an account and am new to posting on forum sites.
 
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JNalley

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They're Zoanthids... anything else is a name created by someone to sell it at a higher price. They probably have 10 different names because someone was like "Oh man, I forgot what these were called when I ordered them, but since they're gold and purple I'll call them Mardi Gras Zoa's"... Once someone loses the "lineage" paperwork (forgets the name and original source colony), it's nearly impossible to be accurate with the name from that point forward.
 
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They're Zoanthids... anything else is a name created by someone to sell it at a higher price. They probably have 10 different names because someone was like "Oh man, I forgot what these were called when I ordered them, but since they're gold and purple I'll call them Mardi Gras Zoa's"... Once someone loses the "lineage" paperwork (forgets the name and original source colony), it's nearly impossible to be accurate with the name from that point forward.
That makes sense, I never thought about it like that. I think that's why my buddy had no idea what they were called. Thank you :)
 
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Ghost25

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They're Zoanthids... anything else is a name created by someone to sell it at a higher price.

Of course no animal intrinsically has any name, not even a species name. But trade names are useful for several reasons. Different varieties have different hardiness and growth speeds, and if OP ever wants to sell a frag he will be able to get a better price if he can provide a trade name rather than saying "it's a zoanthid."
 
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Of course no animal intrinsically has any name, not even a species name. But trade names are useful for several reasons. Different varieties have different hardiness and growth speeds, and if OP ever wants to sell a frag he will be able to get a better price if he can provide a trade name rather than saying "it's a zoanthid."
Good to know. I do plan on fragging eventually considering my zoas have practically doubled over the course of a month. Thanks for the advice!
 
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JNalley

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Different varieties have different hardiness and growth speeds
Proof? Using Zoanthids. This may be the case for Acropora's, but there are many sub-species of Acropora that these factors can be attributed to. I would say that any Acropora Schmitti is going to be as hardy and grow just as fast as the other given the same conditions. The coloration does not dictate the hardiness or the growth speed.

Of course no animal intrinsically has any name, not even a species name
Scientifically we can identify species via genetics. Names themselves are monikers assigned by humans, but species names have relevance and standards. Zoanthid, or coral "Trade names" have no such standards, they're based purely off of coloration.


and if OP ever wants to sell a frag he will be able to get a better price if he can provide a trade name rather than saying "it's a zoanthid."
This is the only true part of your statement as far as I am concerned. It's for increasing sale price, that's it.
 
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Just John

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Proof? Using Zoanthids. This may be the case for Acropora's, but there are many sub-species of Acropora that these factors can be attributed to. I would say that any Acropora Schmitti is going to be as hardy and grow just as fast as the other given the same conditions. The coloration does not dictate the hardiness or the growth speed.


Scientifically we can identify species via genetics. Names themselves are monikers assigned by humans, but species names have relevance and standards. Zoanthid, or coral "Trade names" have no such standards, they're based purely off of coloration.



This is the only true part of your statement as far as I am concerned. It's for increasing sale price, that's it.
Seems like you are in the mood to poke a stick in everyone's eye today, lol
 
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Ghost25

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Proof? Using Zoanthids.

Sure, my Goblins on Fire have grown about twice as fast as my Rastas, Bam Bam have grown almost twice as fast as Goblins on Fire. Pink Zippers were about on par with my Rastas, Sunny D are about 50% faster than my Rastas. Utter Chaos and Red People Eaters have barely grown in that time. Blow Pops are extremely fast growers.

The coloration does not dictate the hardiness or the growth speed

I don't claim the color is directly responsible for the growth, but that doesn't mean they aren't phenotypically linked. For example different dog breeds have different behaviors and appearances, golden retrievers don't like fetch because they're golden, they are two traits which are present in a lineage which is the same species as a Husky or Bloodhound.

Scientifically we can identify species via genetics.

And we can tell a person's ancestry by genetics too, clearly if one zoanthid is green and another is red they are expressing different genes. (One is expressing GFP and another RFP).

Regardless there are roughly 20 species in the genus Zoanthus alone (Z. pacificus, Z. sociatus, Z. pullchellus, Z. solanderi, Z. coppingeri, Z. mantoni, etc.) Why is it hard to believe more than one of these species of Zoanthus is in the aquarium trade, and have different characteristics?
 
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JNalley

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Why is it hard to believe more than one of these species of Zoanthus is in the aquarium trade, and have different characteristics?
It's not hard to believe a Zoanthus species might be different hardiness, but you can't tell by looking at them what species they are, and coloration will not dictate species (Just like with Acropora). The coloration on Zoanthids can morph, they're not like dogs in that manner where you can tell the breed of dog by what it looks like, and dogs certainly can't change colors due to different environmental conditions or different consumption of nutrients. Someone can start off with an Orange and Green Zoanthid and watch it change to Bright yellow and Deep blue depending on water condition, light spectrum, and trace element intake.

This means that the once Fiji Fires are now called Blue Alien Orgasms... Or are they still called Fiji Fires if they morphed their color palette? Ironically, the Fiji Fires look nearly identical to the Leprechauns, so how do we tell which it is? Furthermore, my lighting and your lighting vary, so I might see Red and Yellow where you see Orange and Green. There are 0 standards by which naming is chosen, unlike dog breeds where there are standards. And you cannot link something that is inherently based on color to hardiness. Your anecdotal evidence of "These grew better than these" are a conditional circumstance, correlation does not equal causation. Perhaps the mother colony of Colony A thrived in water similar to yours whereas the mother colony of colony B prefers shallower or deeper water.

Until you go by the species name ie Z. sociatus, etc, there is no accuracy, and 0 proof that "Trade name" A is any hardier or faster-growing than "Trade name" B, and sadly we cannot tell species by looks.
 
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BroccoliFarmer

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They're Zoanthids... anything else is a name created by someone to sell it at a higher price. They probably have 10 different names because someone was like "Oh man, I forgot what these were called when I ordered them, but since they're gold and purple I'll call them Mardi Gras Zoa's"... Once someone loses the "lineage" paperwork (forgets the name and original source colony), it's nearly impossible to be accurate with the name from that point forward.
Not sure I an agree with you. There are some pretty super rare ultra aquacultured monochromatic rainbow holy grail of the gods Zoas out there...this looks like one of those. they truly are special and rare!!

So What No GIF
 
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JNalley

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BroccoliFarmer

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Just have a search over at http://www.zoabrary.com/Search/index.php

Type in various color morphs and search for them... It's ludicrous
ludacris GIF
It was definitely sarcasm!! Not going to lie to you..i fell for it too when I first joined the community!. After I got over the initial BS of someone calling something special, I bought into the premise that you can at least figure out what a coral will look like when it grows up..then I realized that people were just taking names off of each other. How many different Disney SPS are out there? Holy Grail Torches that all look completely different.

My favorite commercial says it all:

Live, Learn then get Loves!
 
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boeingn747

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Hello, I am new to reefing and have been using this site for months and have learned a lot and avoided a lot of stupid mistakes from what I have read. That being said, I can’t seem to find what kind of zoa’s I have. I got these from a buddy a month ago but he has no idea what they are and google hasn’t been much help either. I want to eventually add another zoa frag to the rock and I want to know what would grow well with these and what wouldn’t overtake my existing colony (or what wouldn’t be overtaken by what I already have!) If you can’t tell from the blue light, they have a yellow center and an orange ring. Thanks in advance :)

image.jpg image.jpg
Edit: Sorry if I made this thread in the wrong place. I just made an account and am new to posting on forum sites.
Sunny D or rainbow infusions. Hard to tell without a lense filter.
 
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JNalley

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It was definitely sarcasm!! Not going to lie to you..i fell for it too when I first joined the community!. After I got over the initial BS of someone calling something special, I bought into the premise that you can at least figure out what a coral will look like when it grows up..then I realized that people were just taking names off of each other. How many different Disney SPS are out there? Holy Grail Torches that all look completely different.

My favorite commercial says it all:

Live, Learn then get Loves!
Yeh, I knew it was sarcasm... and yes, full agreement, there are 30 different "Green Goblin" zoa's out there, if not more. All stemming from different mother colonies, which is why "They're Zoanthids" is my answer, lol
 
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Ghost25

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It's not hard to believe a Zoanthus species might be different hardiness, but you can't tell by looking at them what species they are, and coloration will not dictate species (Just like with Acropora).

My point was that there are different species in the trade, and therefore of course different zoas have different growth rates, I claim that it is possible to reliably ID many zoas by their trade name in different conditions.

Of course the phenotype of any organism is a results of genotype and environmental factors. However, I believe you are exaggerating the extent to which environment will change a given zoa. I bet I can ID an Utter Chaos grown in many conditions which may vary in appearance somewhat.

Your anecdotal evidence of "These grew better than these" are a conditional circumstance

You're the one who asked for examples, and I provided them.

Perhaps the mother colony of Colony A thrived in water similar to yours whereas the mother colony of colony B prefers shallower or deeper water.

I agree completely. That's the point...
 
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boeingn747

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They're Zoanthids... anything else is a name created by someone to sell it at a higher price. They probably have 10 different names because someone was like "Oh man, I forgot what these were called when I ordered them, but since they're gold and purple I'll call them Mardi Gras Zoa's"... Once someone loses the "lineage" paperwork (forgets the name and original source colony), it's nearly impossible to be accurate with the name from that point forward.
That is a bulls h i t answer and makes you sound like a total D head. That wasn't the subject of the post nor should that be the debate. The appeal of zoas for most people of today is there unique names and beauty. Buying random zoas at a lfs and then coming here for a name is absolutely a legitimate question. The fact that you felt the need to respond with that as a answer, tells me one of three things. You are either a old school reefer that is stuck in a old way of doing things and should either not butt your nose where it doesn't belong. You are not a reefer at all and just a lazy troll looking to discredit and bully people here to make yourself and your bad opinions heard. Or third, you are worlds biggest hypocrite and have purchased or have a tank full of over priced name brand zoas. Jealous that other people love the coral that you love and instead of answering the question, you decied to post a rant about why your meaningless opinion on why zoanthids are zoanthids and zoanthids don't have names and that's why this guy should be wondering what he has. No matter the reason, this person just like any other person has the right to ask a question and get a respectful answer. Did you know that a torch is a made of name and a hammer is made up name used by the industry to make it easy for regular non marine biologists to identify corals. There is no such thing as a holy grail torch or a radioactive frogspawn. We use those names to make it easy, so everyone knows what we are talking about. Same thing with zoanthids. If I tell you that I have some illuminati zoas for sale, right away most people know exactly what I am talking about without seeing a picture. Or if I say I'm selling rasta zoas, I don't need to post a picture becasue most people know what they are. If for no other reason than that, that is a perfectly acceptable reason. But there are also a million other reasons someone can ask what zoa thay have. Mostly they can ask just becssue they want to. People who can weigh in on the question can answer. If you are against it than make a post about it and start a debate. Don't come on here an bash someone becasue they want to know what they got. You are what's wrong with this hobby, not what's good about it. Furthermore, you are what's wrong with this world. It's people like you that cause headaches for others becssue you can't keep your suck hole shut. You think your opinion matters. It doesn't! Either give a legitimate answer or move on.
 
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