125-gallon Peaceful Reef

Due to acquisition of two Marineland 125-gallon tanks, my build plan has changed significantly.
Current plan is to have a 125-reef with a 125-sump with the main chamber for a macroalgae display.
Screenshot of 3D-model of current plan (2021-10-04 16:06):

Spoiler: Previous post updates

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QT Update 2021-11-23:

Stand painted 2021-11-13 (now in my dining room 2021-11-20):

Living room FOWLR is being transferred to the basement:

Now for 90-Display/75-sump FOWLR for my basement fish room:

Spoiler: Basement FOWLR 90-Display 75-Sump

Last Update as of 2021-03-17 10:38
Floor drilled for plumbing down to basement "fish room" (2021-03-16 20:30):

Current FOWLR and in-progress setup photo from this morning (2021-03-10):

Backdrop outdoor posters received for mangrove lagoon and 90-gallon reef (2021-03-08):

Current Fish Stocking List as of 2021-03-11 17:42
Current planned fish list:
90-gallon reef:
1X Fiji Bicolor Foxface (Siganus uspi)
2X Darwin Ocellaris Clownfish (Amphiprion ocellaris)
2X Royal Gramma (Gramma loreto)
2X Sharknose Gobies (Elcatinus evelynae)
1X Rainsford's Goby (Amblygobius rainfordi)
1X Orangespotted Shrimp Goby (Amblyeleotris guttata)
1X Bristletooth Tomini Tang (Ctenochaetus tominiensis)
3X Yellowstriped Cardinalfish (Ostorhincus cyanosoma) or Seal's Cardinalfish (Ostorhincus sealei)
2X Scissortail Dartfish (Ptereleotris evides)
1X Melanurus Wrasse (Halichoerus melanurus)
1X Engineer Goby (Pholidichthys leucotaenia)

75-gallon mangrove lagoon:
1X Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum) [already in FOWLR]
1X Rectangle Triggerfish (Rhinecanthus rectangulus) [already in FOWLR]
1X Snowflake Eel (Echidna nebulosa) [already in FOWLR]
1X One Spot Foxface (Siganus unimaculatus)
1X Pink Streaked Wrasse (Pseudocheilinops ataenia)

~40-gallon Sump Refugium Section:
2X Janss' Pipefish (Doryrhamphus janssi)
2X Spotted Mandarinfish (Synchiropus picturatus)

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Planned layout (shorter stand will be standard rather than custom-built):

75-gallon mangrove lagoon and 90-gallon display are both drilled for Modular Marine 1200gph overflows (awaiting setup and installation). (2021-01-21)

Stand Frame finished and awaiting skin, trim, and countertop (2021-01-04):

UPDATES as of 2020-12-07 13:00
Modular Marine 1200GPH overflows shipping soon, fish list being revised and researched, materials for stand are in my shop waiting for fabrication, most equipment is sourced and on-hand for progress over holiday break

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ORIGINAL POST
After being introduced to keeping a marine aquarium with the acquisition of a 75-gallon FOWLR from a co-worker as detailed in my post in the Meet & Greet forum, I am just starting the planning phase of building a 90-gallon peaceful reef tank.
Since I am new, I am planning to start with more hardy fishes, corals, and invertebrates. Research is one thing I enjoy doing, so I will be careful and patient in the planning phase to reduce likelihood of wasted expense and failures when I am starting out.

I already have the tank (48 inches long, 18 inches wide, 25 inches deep) and stand with an open base design that should allow for a sump. There are no holes drilled in the aquarium for plumbing, so I will probably need overflow over the top, unless drilling through the glass is a consideration I take. A sump with a refugium is very likely to be included (30 to 55 gallons, not sure how to size the sump? ...is bigger better?).
80-lbs of dry rock, 40-lbs of Caribsea Arag-alive Fiji Pink, and 20-lbs of Caribsea Arag-alive Special Grade are on order so I can get rockscape and substrate ready to begin cycling in the next month or two. I am in no rush, but I would like to have the materials on hand when I am ready to start this tank, especially if there is any pre-setup processing I need to do.

This is my initial fish list based on preliminary research, and recommendations for additions, subtractions, or changes are appreciated.
Listed in approximate order of preference:
2 of Black and White Ocellaris Clownfish (Amphiprion ocellaris)
1 of Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum) [I already have this ~4-inch fish that will be transferred over from my 75-gallon]
1 of Kole Yellow Eye Tang (Ctenochaetus strigosus) or 1 of Bristletooth Tomini Tang (Ctenochaetus tominiensis)
1 of Foxface Lo (Siganus vulpinus) or 1 of Bicolor Foxface (Siganus uspi) or 1 of One Spot Foxface (Siganus unimaculatus)
1-2 of Engineer Goby (Pholidichthys leucotaenia)
2-3 of Chalk Bass (Serranus tortugarum)
2-3 of Neon Goby (Elcatinus oceanops)
2-4 of Yellowstriped Cardinalfish (Ostorhincus cyanosoma)
2 of Blue/Green Black-axil Chromis (Chromis sp.) or 2 of Yellowtail Damselfish (Chrysiptera parasema) or 2 of Blue Sapphire Damselfish (Chrysiptera cf. springeri)

Some items on this list are probably not subject to change. My favorite fish is the Black and White Ocellaris Clownfish, especially paired symbiotically with Rose Bubble-Tip Anemones. These two fish along with RBTA are surely on my list.
The Purple Tang came with the 75-gallon tank I got and is one of my most favorite fish, so I would like him to be in the 90-gallon reef (at least until he may grow too large?).
Fish from the genus Siganus I find particularly striking and interesting, so one will likely be included.
The Engineer Goby is one of my favorites also for its coloration and resemblance to an eel. I am not sure if it is better to include two or only one.
The Chalk Bass is my favorite small fish and would like to include more than one.
The other fish are just considerations for different colors or interests if they can be added without overcrowding the tank or overloading the biosystem.
I really like eels, and my 75-gallon aquarium came with a ~11-inch Snowflake Eel, but it seems they are not good to add to a 90-gallon reef. Since I also have triggerfish that are not compatible with the reef, I will probably leave the 75-gallon as a FOWLR in addition to the 90-gallon reef aquarium.

Does this seem way too heavy a bio-load for a 90-gallon tank (probably with a 30-to-55-gallon sump)? Should I remove fish or can I add fish (either more quantity or more types) to the list? What sequence should I add the fish to best aid success?

I am not really sure which corals to include, so I am open to suggestions. I want hardy beginner corals at the start and will see where I head from here in the future.
My initial research has me considering the following, though much more research and recommendations are needed before adding any:
Mushroom Anemones, branching Sinularia, Porites, Leather, Acropora (maybe too difficult?), Star Polyps, Euphyllia (especially ancora)
Corals are one category where I am very open to recommendations.

Other invertebrates, such as hermit crabs, snails, shrimp, starfish, urchins, conchs will be included for clean-up, though I am also very open to suggestions in this area and will refine considerations as I make a more specific plan for the fishes and corals that are to be included.

Thanks in advance for any recommendations, especially initial reactions to my considerations. I know this is broad right now, but I will get more specific in considerations and schedule as I progress in my research. I have been reading a lot about reefing and marine aquariums online and in books and will continue to do so in conjunction with recommendations on R2R for a practical education towards a successful reef.

Current Aquascape awaiting cementing (2020-12-07):

Cemented Aquascape (2021-01-23):

33-gallon Brute can ready for pre-cycling rock, sand, and aquascape (2021-01-23):

Aquascape start-cycle in progress (2021-01-28):

Kind Regards,
Soren

 

[Soren]

Wow you got a lot going on. Love the tadpole tank!

Yes, I am never bored. I have 9 siblings, and we all tend to acquire interests that end up being shared amongst us. Sometimes the interests are skills that allow us to do our own work, which is handy for cost-savings but not so handy for time-savings!

I will have to lower the water level in the tadpole tank soon to allow for a landing for them to crawl out onto once they metamorphose. Some already have tiny back legs. My plan is to just let them go then, but I at least get to enjoy the process! I've done this a few times before, once a year if I have a good chance. Likely, most if not all of these tadpoles are Toad-poles, since they came from a puddle in my driveway that was drying up when I collected these Monday morning. By Monday night, the puddle had dried up and killed all the tadpoles I could not collect (I already have several hundred in the 20-gallon pond!). Not that I did anything significant in saving them, since most will die or be eaten anyway, but I can at least enjoy a bit of nature up close. The tadpoles love the murky water, but it would be too much for my preference for a FW fish tank.

 

[Soren]

...so I waited too long getting my setup done.
I discovered on Saturday that I have contracted a condition that may be familiar to others on R2R: Multiple Tank Syndrome.

I came across a local seller clearing out a fish room since he is moving to Florida. He had only freshwater tanks and I will probably keep most of the tanks for freshwater (of the ones I set up rather than just keep for extras, since I now have way too many tanks [all relative...]), but some will be used for saltwater as well (quarantine, possible species-only, frag tank, seahorses, who knows - my dreams are endless).

I got the following tanks:
2 5-gallon standards
5 10-gallon standards
2 15-gallon standards
1 20-gallon standard
1 29-gallon standard
1 30-gallon breeder
7 40-gallon breeders with perfect-fit stands to place one over top another
2 125-gallon standards

Now, since I am planning on some fish that are considered to grow too large for a 90-gallon tank, I am rethinking my setup with the possibility of a 125-gallon display. The considerations are as follows:
1. 125-gallon allows for space for foxface/tangs that might get too large for 90-gallon
2. 90-75-75 system fits perfectly in my available living room space
3. 125 would also fit, but without enough room for 75-gallon along-side, so would have to shrink mangrove tank size or eliminate it
4. 90 and 75 are already drilled, 125 and smaller mangrove lagoon not yet drilled
5. Stand is nearly finished for the 90-75-75 system, no stand for the 125 system...
6. Plans are being started for an addition on my house sometime in the next few years in veranda/closed-porch/sunroom style which would allow for expansion space of my marine system (still need to work out a lot of details)

Any advice on what I should do? How difficult is it to transfer a system to a new tank a couple years down the road? How likely is it that foxface and purple tang get too large for an open-aquascaped 90-gallon?

As of now, I am leaning toward continuing my current plans and saving the 125 for a future upgrade, but I am seriously considering the change to the 125 right from the start.

...and I am now nearly certain to end up with a very full basement fish room between freshwater and marine tanks!

 

[Erin O]

I have no advice, but WOW!!! Nice score!

 

[LRT]

Those 40 breeders are gold right now cant find them anywhere. Nice score man

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Congrats!

That's a lot of glass boxes!

 

[Soren]

I have no advice, but WOW!!! Nice score!

Those 40 breeders are gold right now cant find them anywhere. Nice score man

Congrats!

That's a lot of glass boxes!

Yes, it is a lot of glass. I got them all for cheaper than $1 per gallon. The reason I was searching was to get a 40-breeder for a friend planning to get a bearded dragon, but I ended up with quite a lot for me, too!
The seller was apologetic for being firm with his prices. ;Wideyed I was, of course, glad to get all of this for such low prices and would not have considered asking him to lower his prices! ...I mean, who can complain about two 125's with lids for $100 each? ...not to mention the 40-breeders with lids and stands for $1 per gallon total price!

Now I have too many dreams spinning at once, since I was looking to get a freshwater tank or two in addition to quarantine tank(s) for my marine build. I need to keep making progress while also making progress on my house remodel.

...I'm already started on my plan spreadsheet for tank allocation, which, for some reason, includes all of the tanks I have now...

 

[fishguy242]

WAIT...stop ,just get the 300 now!!!,use 125 as sump... nice score...

 

[Soren]

WAIT...stop ,just get the 300 now!!!,use 125 as sump... nice score...

I almost got the 300 earlier this year... I found one offered for free on craigslist from someone who was clearing a house near Chicago. I contacted them and did not get a response for a few days, then was told that the junk truck was coming to pick it up in a few hours, so I needed to get there before they picked it up. When I asked for details on location and timing, they said it is not available...

I made the decision at that point to stick with my current plans with the consideration of a 125 upgrade to allow space for the foxface and tangs. Now, with my recent acquisition, I am considering "upgrading" before my setup was even completed!

 

[Soren]

No updates on my marine setup until I consider the 125, but the first tadpole from the 20-gallon pond metamorphosed and was released to my yard:

 

[Soren]

I am planning to just make the upgrade now to the 125 right from the start. This will eliminate the side 75-gallon mangrove lagoon, since there is not room on the end of my living room (there may still be mangroves in the plans for one end of the 125). The 75-gallon tanks (or the 90, if not used as sump) will be set up in the basement on my current 90-75-setup stand for a basement FOWLR/quarantine system.

What I am trying to decide now is which tanks to use for the sump and how it will be arranged.
The two considerations I have are as follows:

1. Use the 90-gallon tank as the macroalgae sump. Overflow from 90 into two 20-gallon high tanks for equipment/returns/rocks/biomedia/etc. This would require some form of overflow between 20's to avoid overflowing (probably just drill both tanks and link with bulkheads). This would be more complicated to avoid leaks/overflow.

2. Use the 2nd 125-gallon tank as the sump with about 1-foot each end partitioned for equipment compartments. This would be simpler to contain water within one sump tank, but there is a catch. When I was picking up the tanks, the seller shifted the bottom 125 within the metal stand to try to remove it and wedged it end-to-end hard enough to cause a clamshell pressure-chip to come off one side of one end near the bottom. The chip is cleanly round, no cracks are visible at all around this clamshell chip which is about 3/4"-diameter and about halfway into the glass thickness. From what I read about clamshell chips, this should not be an issue of any noticeable concern and the tank has been leak-tested with no issues, but I am not sure I want any extra liability with the whole reef setup/occupants and my living room floor at risk. I think I am leaning more toward using both 125's for this simpler system, but I am still undecided. If I do not use this 125, it will probably be set up in my basement for a freshwater planted tank, so that is also part of my consideration (whether I want to plan on this or not...)

Any advice or consideration is appreciated!

 

[sp1187]

personally I prefer op two except when you toss in the chipped glass.
if you go with op one, wouldn't the twenty need to be elevated so the top is level or higher than the ninety to account for backflow from the return pump? and if not then wouldn't the water volume in the ninety have to be a whole lot less than what it could be less the twenty?

 

[Soren]

personally I prefer op two except when you toss in the chipped glass.
if you go with op one, wouldn't the twenty need to be elevated so the top is level or higher than the ninety to account for backflow from the return pump? and if not then wouldn't the water volume in the ninety have to be a whole lot less than what it could be less the twenty?

I still think I prefer option 2 as well. The chip is probably fairly minimal risk, especially since I could use the stand to directly support the outside of the tank to minimize any slight risk of cracking due to water pressure. All research indicates that small clamshell chips are very low risk, and I was watching when the seller chipped it, so I know it is just from pressure-shear and not from an impact that would also cause cracking. Maybe I am crazy, though, to put all occupants and my living room wood floor and trim at risk...

For option 1, the returns would pump from the back 20 to the 125, 125 has overflow down into 90, 90 has overflow into front 20 or both 20's, and 20's would be directly linked with bulkheads through the side for overflow from front 20 to back 20. I think the 20's can be lower in this arrangement? They would need to be lower to allow for the room for overflow bulkheads from the 90. There would be an internal weir/stand-pipes for overflow on the 90. Am I understanding your question correctly?

 

[fishguy242]

hi,option 2?? cannot really think straight ATM, @Lost in the Sauce @sp1187 @F i s h y got cha..

 

[sp1187]

the return pump is in one of the twenty's?
power out water flows out to the ninety and the return line.
I have a side wall overflow. the overflow box clears before the return line.
so in mine the major outflow from the dt in a power out (maintenance) is through the return line.

 

[Soren]

the return pump is in one of the twenty's?
power out water flows out to the ninety and the return line.
I have a side wall overflow. the overflow box clears before the return line.
so in mine the major outflow from the dt in a power out (maintenance) is through the return line.

Return pumps would be in the back 20. The system would be setup with the total volume of both linked 20's to be low enough to take up extra from return-line backflow as well as overflow from 125 and 90. I have not calculated this yet, but I am hoping that an entire back 20 would be enough to handle the extra water if it typically runs about half full. The bulkheads linking the 20's would be low enough to allow some extra space in the front 20 as well during power outage.

I still do not like the added complexity of this system compared to the 125 sump...

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Hey bud. Knowing the clamshell is there, I would still firmly be exploring option 2. 125 over 125. I don't see any downside here.

I'm a big fan of the KISS model personally. The more that has to be done, the more chances of failure.

Op 1 could definitely work, but seems like it would need a lot more fine tuning. I also like having a direct line of site to my return pump. Having it down in the back 20, connected by bulkheads, rear of the under compartment would be a headache to get into and around.

 

[sp1187]

Return pumps would be in the back 20. The system would be setup with the total volume of both linked 20's to be low enough to take up extra from return-line backflow as well as overflow from 125 and 90. I have not calculated this yet, but I am hoping that an entire back 20 would be enough to handle the extra water if it typically runs about half full. The bulkheads linking the 20's would be low enough to allow some extra space in the front 20 as well during power outage.

I still do not like the added complexity of this system compared to the 125 sump...

this is too complicated for me. drilling the two twenties to line up, matching the gap between them and bulkheads to the ninety. no way I could pull that off.

and I'm still concerned with the volume of water and space needed when the pumps off.
front view what's the height of all the connections between the sump tanks?

 

[Soren]

Hey bud. Knowing the clamshell is there, I would still firmly be exploring option 2. 125 over 125. I don't see any downside here.

I'm a big fan of the KISS model personally. The more that has to be done, the more chances of failure.

Op 1 could definitely work, but seems like it would need a lot more fine tuning. I also like having a direct line of site to my return pump. Having it down in the back 20, connected by bulkheads, rear of the under compartment would be a headache to get into and around.

I totally agree on KISS (I am an engineer, after all). My preferences are heavily leaning toward the 125 over 125.
Also, you bring up a good point about accessibility for the 90-20x2 sump. Originally, I had considered the 20's end-to-end from front-to-back of stand, which would maintain accessibility but would still require linking. If I had a 40 with the same footprint as the 2 20's, this option might be more feasible.

It still would not be simpler than the 125 over 125...

this is too complicated for me. drilling the two twenties to line up, matching the gap between them and bulkheads to the ninety. no way I could pull that off.

and I'm still concerned with the volume of water and space needed when the pumps off.
front view what's the height of all the connections between the sump tanks?

I agree this is pretty complicated. There would be a bit of play for the bulkheads, but still complicated.

The height difference from water-level in the 90 to 20's would be about 4-5 inches. Returns from water-level in 20's to 125 would be about 40-42 inches. This does amount to a lot of water down in the 20's during a power outage, which is another strong-point for the 125 over 125 option, since there would be less water and more room to allow for sump overflow space.


I am pretty sure my mind is made up right now to go with the 125 over 125 option. Thanks for the input! @sp1187 @Lost in the Sauce @fishguy242

 

[F i s h y]

I totally agree on KISS (I am an engineer, after all). My preferences are heavily leaning toward the 125 over 125.
Also, you bring up a good point about accessibility for the 90-20x2 sump. Originally, I had considered the 20's end-to-end from front-to-back of stand, which would maintain accessibility but would still require linking. If I had a 40 with the same footprint as the 2 20's, this option might be more feasible.

It still would not be simpler than the 125 over 125...


I agree this is pretty complicated. There would be a bit of play for the bulkheads, but still complicated.

The height difference from water-level in the 90 to 20's would be about 4-5 inches. Returns from water-level in 20's to 125 would be about 40-42 inches. This does amount to a lot of water down in the 20's during a power outage, which is another strong-point for the 125 over 125 option, since there would be less water and more room to allow for sump overflow space.


I am pretty sure my mind is made up right now to go with the 125 over 125 option. Thanks for the input! @sp1187 @Lost in the Sauce @fishguy242

Sounds like you have it figured out. But my vote def is 125 over 125... easy peasy

 

[SaltyWaffles]

Any updates?