60 days quarantine VS 31 days quarantine

Muffin87

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#fishmedics, is there a strong case to follow the 60 days quarantine protocol outlined by @Jay Hemdal, instead of a shorter one like the one @Dierks follows (see below).
(Ich, Velvet, Brooks & Uronema Treatment)
Day 0 - Copper Power 1.0
Day 1 - Copper Power 1.33
Day 2 - Copper Power 1.66
Day 3 - Copper Power 2.0
Day 4 - Metro - Copper Power 2.3
Day 5 - Copper Power 2.5
Day 6 - API GC (Or Pure Metro and prazi)
Day 8 - Metro
Day 10 - Metro
Day 12 - API GC (Or Pure Metro and prazi)
Day 16 – Metro
Day 17- Move to QT Tank 2 for observation and (Internal Parasites/Worms Treatment) 14 days of feeding medicated food
Since I live in a small apartment, I'd have more space if I set up the QT for only 17 day periods.
I do have an observation tank that I use for fish and corals, on the other hand. So I could use that for the follow-up praziquantel treatments.

P.S. Dosing straight praziquantel with no metro is safe for corals, even if the praziquantel is dosed to the whole tank and not bound to food, right? Thanks!
 
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MnFish1

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#fishmedics, is there a strong case to follow the 60 days quarantine protocol outlined by @Jay Hemdal, instead of a shorter one like the one @Dierks follows (see below).

Since I live in a small apartment, I'd have more space if I set up the QT for only 17 day periods.
I do have an observation tank that I use for fish and corals, on the other hand. So I could use that for the follow-up praziquantel treatments.

P.S. Dosing straight praziquantel with no metro is safe for corals, even if the praziquantel is dosed to the whole tank and not bound to food, right? Thanks!
1. I would probably ask @Dierks that question - since its his protocol. (i.e. what is his rationale)?
2. The protocol quoted above does not make complete sense to me - what happens after day 5? Are the fish still getting copper plus all the other stuff? The times for dosing seem off.
3. IF you have a problem doing quarantine another possibility would be to order fish pre-quarantined - you shouldn't (key word shouldn't) have any problems.
4. Not every coral reacts to praziquantel and metronidazole the same - it depends on a number of variables.
5. The protocol Jay recommends is based on scientific studies - and principles used in zoos/aquariums.

Lastly the problem with trying to answer this question is 'there is really no good answer'. Why? Because many people don't quarantine at all - and they would disagree with BOTH @Dierks and @Jay Hemdal protocols - and are 'successful'. Hopefully Jay will weigh In (as well as Dierks). BTW - I'm not trying to criticise Dierks - but - his protocol may work as well as no QT - OR - maybe slightly better but not as good as Jay's. IDK - Not sure anyone can say. In any case - good luck with your decision - and your tank!
 

MnFish1

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World Wide Corals

vetteguy53081

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I side with jay on the 60 in which I recommended 45-60
Per your question it is based on the parasite having no host and going through the stages reaching tromont stage and dying off due to no host
Your going to treat for a full 30 days anyway and obviously, the longer you treat, the likelihood the parasite is gone
As many of us have learned, what works for one may not for others and also what may not have worked for one will work for another person
 

Jay Hemdal

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#fishmedics, is there a strong case to follow the 60 days quarantine protocol outlined by @Jay Hemdal, instead of a shorter one like the one @Dierks follows (see below).

Since I live in a small apartment, I'd have more space if I set up the QT for only 17 day periods.
I do have an observation tank that I use for fish and corals, on the other hand. So I could use that for the follow-up praziquantel treatments.

P.S. Dosing straight praziquantel with no metro is safe for corals, even if the praziquantel is dosed to the whole tank and not bound to food, right? Thanks!

Isn't the word quarantine derived from the Italian word for 40? For a variety or reasons, 40 days is a good length of time. My process is essentially that, with a 14 day observation time added to the end and 3 days up front. Even my process isn't going to be 100% effective, but it is, IMO a good compromise between effort and efficacy.

It is all about risk analysis - what is the risk to the fish in your existing tank if you run a fast quarantine that lets more issues through?

A couple of things - don't rely on medicated food unless you do it properly. Just adding medication to some food and feeding it to your fish won't work, you have no idea as to the dose. Also, there are some disease issues (Uronema, bacteria, Brooklynella and Microsporidians) that neither of these processes screen for. Holding the fish for 60 days helps ensure those issues don't carry over to your main display (but you may lose fish in quarantine itself).

Jay
 

LeftyReefer

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I would feel better about Dierks's protocol if he were to ramp up to 2.5 copper on day 1. The 5 day ramp up can leave the fish in below therapeutic level for the first 4-5 days of QT. Leaving them only 12 days or so at therapeutic levels.

that's a risk.

I don't necessarily think you need to go 60 days either. I combine my Prazipro and copper treatments and have never had an issue. So my QT'd fish have all had their prazi treatments (3 or 4 doses) by the time they hit 30 days in copper.

If after 30 days they look good, I'll go right to a 2 week observation. So I'm closer to 45 day quarantine if all goes well.
 
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LeftyReefer

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FYI, it looks like Dierks now does indeed dose copper power up to 2.00ppm on day one now.

his protocol according to his website now says;

day 1 copper power 2.0 and metro
day 2 copper power 2.25
day 3 copper power 2.45 and metro
 

Jay Hemdal

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Slow ramp up of copper is an artifact of the old ionic copper/citric acid doses that needed to be ramped up over 48 hours. Some how people thought longer is better and then they began applying it to amine based copper. As said, this leaves the fish vulnerable to infection. The only need to ramp up is to ensure you edge up to the dose. Once dialed in, you can just put fish right into copper power or coppersafe (Cupramine is a bit of a wild card).
Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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I would feel better about Dierks's protocol if he were to ramp up to 2.5 copper on day 1. The 5 day ramp up can leave the fish in below therapeutic level for the first 4-5 days of QT. Leaving them only 12 days or so at therapeutic levels.

that's a risk.

I don't necessarily think you need to go 60 days either. I combine my Prazipro and copper treatments and have never had an issue. So my QT'd fish have all had their prazi treatments (3 or 4 doses) by the time they hit 30 days in copper.

If after 30 days they look good, I'll go right to a 2 week observation. So I'm closer to 45 day quarantine if all goes well.
Prazipro scavenges dissolved oxygen, and that can be an issue in some cases. Also, I think keeping meds down to one at a time is important for judging cause and effect.
Jay
 
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