Most people who struggle with low PH would love to have the tank stay at 8.0 or above. I use a large air pump under my house to send air into my skimmer. My old house is built on pier and beam construction and the back of the home is about 4.5 feet off the ground.
That is as very simple idea. I like it.I was going to do a build-thread for this as well, but you've already covered most of what I was going to talk about anyways. Here's the pics of the carbon filter I made for the end of my outside line;
Materials:
I had a SS barb left over from brew supplies, else I would have used plastic. I cut up a filter sock that I didn't need (wrong size) for the filter media. You could skip the thread-tape; no need for that to be sealed.
Prevent carbon being sucked up into the line with some filter material:
Assemble the filter body:
Seal off one end with filter material and zip-tie:
Pack the "T" with carbon and seal off the other end:
That's attached to the outside end of my air line. We have our house sprayed for bugs once a month, so this filter was critical to being able to pull in outside air for me.
Thank you Lasse
Sound like the CO2 scrubber is a better fit for you
I know this an old response and you've probably realized that 8.2 to 8.4 is the perfect pH range for your tank. But you are changing things in your system by running such a long line through your skimmer, while also scrubbing out CO2... Explained below but just concepts are explained so anyone could decide what to do here. However my advice is to choose one over the other, but not both. I like the CO2 scrubber, but that's just me."Name taken out" said:
I like this idea. I will have to research ERV and HRV systems. I would love it if AC / heating systems could use sensors to tell when outside air temp and humidity (especially) is ideal to switch air intake to outside. That can fluctuate throughout the day. Still, I wonder if pumping lots of fresh air into the aquarium using a 1/2" line per the most recent post could help not only the aquarium but the air quality in our homes as well. In other words, could doing this increase the oxygen levels in our homes.
I would like to see some pics if someone has tried this setup using the larger diameter tubing.Jeffery, I know this an old response and you've probably realized that 8.2 to 8.4 is the perfect pH range for your tank. But you are changing things in your system by running such a long line through your skimmer, while also scrubbing out CO2... Explained below but just concepts are explained so anyone could decide what to do here. However my advice is to choose one over the other, but not both. I like the CO2 scrubber, but that's just me.
I have used CO2 scrubbers for years with great effect on pH. I have run a line to the outside as well, but there was definitely a change in the dynamics of my skimmer at the time (Reef Octo initially, now Deltec). So I added a Luft pump to the outside line intake so it could push air in under pressure (since that's the point of a Luft pump) and that changed skimmer dynamics as well. I'm sure I could have adjusted the skimmer pump to deal with the higher pressure from the Luft, however I didn't fool with that.
Either way, I would recommend pressurizing a long run of airline, or increasing the diameter of hosing to at least 1/2 " as @Downbeach already stated, and additionally I would add the super flexible thick silicone tubing like the kind used on return pumps for silencing/dampening vibrations, link here to BRS. No thinner than 1/2" though. Skimmers are pretty precisely designed now, pumps matched pretty exactly to skimmer body, height, circumference, neck length, type of impeller used etc., so any change in airflow dynamics has a resultant effect on the entire skimmer, whether we notice or not. Each kind of skimmer as well have skimmate profiles that remove specific amounts and types of DOC's, and as a result skimmate profiles trend downwards (in terms of ability to remove very specific percentages of DOC's) with airflow dynamics changes that are made to it.
There is an upside to outside air over an air scrubber though, meaning CO2 is used by zooxanthellae in some instances for photosynthesis, while other corals can use bicarb directly (reference article written by Dana Riddle here). In any case, scrubbing CO2 out of a tank may result in slower coral growth rates or create the need to raise levels of alkalinity or bicarb to much higher levels for direct use. But that is another thread altogether.
Last point on this topic I promise. It is just as important to recognize the importance, or not, of the source of dissolved oxygen levels in our tanks. Outside air will not cause an appreciable increase of dissolved O2 in our tanks, although outside air does cause a very appreciable decrease in CO2, compared to air internal to the house. This varying difference in dissolved O2 vs. CO2 levels is simply proportionate to the concentrations of the two gasses in atmospheric air; 20.95% vs. 0.04%, respectively. In essence by using outside air, we don't change the amount of dissolved O2 in tank, but we do appreciably change the amount of CO2. O2 inside our homes doesn't drop by enough to keep our skimmers from saturating our tanks with dissolved O2. Another thread topic though.
Just wanted to drop in and thank @jsker for the post/article!
I run CO2 scrubbers to keep skimmer function similar to the way it was designed, and keep some windows open to allow fresh air in as well while switching the CO2 scrubber either off or allowing dual intakes into one line so not to strip my tank of CO2 needed for proper coral photosynthesis and growth. Hope that long post didn't bore you all to sleep.
Jeffery, I know this an old response and you've probably realized that 8.2 to 8.4 is the perfect pH range for your tank. But you are changing things in your system by running such a long line through your skimmer, while also scrubbing out CO2... Explained below but just concepts are explained so anyone could decide what to do here. However my advice is to choose one over the other, but not both. I like the CO2 scrubber, but that's just me.
I have used CO2 scrubbers for years with great effect on pH. I have run a line to the outside as well, but there was definitely a change in the dynamics of my skimmer at the time (Reef Octo initially, now Deltec). So I added a Luft pump to the outside line intake so it could push air in under pressure (since that's the point of a Luft pump) and that changed skimmer dynamics as well. I'm sure I could have adjusted the skimmer pump to deal with the higher pressure from the Luft, however I didn't fool with that.
Either way, I would recommend pressurizing a long run of airline, or increasing the diameter of hosing to at least 1/2 " as @Downbeach already stated, and additionally I would add the super flexible thick silicone tubing like the kind used on return pumps for silencing/dampening vibrations, link here to BRS. No thinner than 1/2" though. Skimmers are pretty precisely designed now, pumps matched pretty exactly to skimmer body, height, circumference, neck length, type of impeller used etc., so any change in airflow dynamics has a resultant effect on the entire skimmer, whether we notice or not. Each kind of skimmer as well have skimmate profiles that remove specific amounts and types of DOC's, and as a result skimmate profiles trend downwards (in terms of ability to remove very specific percentages of DOC's) with airflow dynamics changes that are made to it.
There is an upside to outside air over an air scrubber though, meaning CO2 is used by zooxanthellae in some instances for photosynthesis, while other corals can use bicarb directly (reference article written by Dana Riddle here). In any case, scrubbing CO2 out of a tank may result in slower coral growth rates or create the need to raise levels of alkalinity or bicarb to much higher levels for direct use. But that is another thread altogether.
Last point on this topic I promise. It is just as important to recognize the importance, or not, of the source of dissolved oxygen levels in our tanks. Outside air will not cause an appreciable increase of dissolved O2 in our tanks, although outside air does cause a very appreciable decrease in CO2, compared to air internal to the house. This varying difference in dissolved O2 vs. CO2 levels is simply proportionate to the concentrations of the two gasses in atmospheric air; 20.95% vs. 0.04%, respectively. In essence by using outside air, we don't change the amount of dissolved O2 in tank, but we do appreciably change the amount of CO2. O2 inside our homes doesn't drop by enough to keep our skimmers from saturating our tanks with dissolved O2. Another thread topic though.
Just wanted to drop in and thank @jsker for the post/article!
I run CO2 scrubbers to keep skimmer function similar to the way it was designed, and keep some windows open to allow fresh air in as well while switching the CO2 scrubber either off or allowing dual intakes into one line so not to strip my tank of CO2 needed for proper coral photosynthesis and growth. Hope that long post didn't bore you all to sleep.
Man, this is the best answer of them all. This would help a lot including personal!
I total agree. It kind of one of the reason to have a CO2 alarm in the house. I was reading an article about the effects of CO2 in the house and the minor effect. We are replacing the HVAC soon and that will be one of the question I will ask now.
I don't know if @Downbeach has any pictures, but sounds like he ran the 1/2" line with his friend outside. I believe that I have a roll of the 1/2" silicone tubing somewhere, or 3/4", that I bought for this reason exactly, and can recreate how I would do it, but my situation is unique, as I work from home and have the Red Sea in my office, the JBJ in the entrance way, so I don't have to run airline very far, and in the case of my office, I typically just keep the door shut at night and the windows all open. In any case, I can take some pictures with the silicone tubing if you'd like. The stuff can kink easily, so precautions have to be taken, such as sliding a spring in the tubing to keep it open and bent for a 90 degree angle, 45, and so on. Your setup obviates the need for larger tubing though @Eye Candy Corals , since you are using a pump to pressurize the air tubing on the outside, so you are probably seeing increased bubbles in your skimmer, which can always be dialed back down if needed, even with a small ball valve from two little fishies if that is all that's done. As long as the airline doesn't cause such a negative draw on the skimmer pump, the skimmer will typically be OK. That cannot be fixed, while pressurizing airflow to the skimmer pump can definitely be corrected. Happens all the time with ozone users that inject O3 into the skimmer by adding a pressure rated air pump like the Luft, then through a canister of desiccant media, then through the ozone generator, then to the skimmer.
This is the best solution, although there are some interesting points brought up by Dana that are making me rethink stripping my water of CO2... It's interesting that some corals have and use carbonic anhydrase outside of their cell walls, allowing them to convert bicarbonate into CO2 for intracellular transport for ease of use (photosynthesis) by the zooxanthellae, while other corals with clade 13 zoox's prefer to use CO2 directly instead of bicarb (Condy anemones, Porites and Montastrea were named corals in Dana's article), so the presence of CO2 in a tank can be very helpful for photosynthesis, and in others, the only way to correct systems with low CO2 values is to increase the alkalinity to help corals that use carbonic anhydrase to convert HCO3 into CO2 for photosynthesis. Great discussion thread you started jsker! I am learning a lot on this thread!
