A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

[brandon429]

the opening meme on page 1 is a play on the fact that 99% of all cyclers think moving live rock from one tank to another starts over the cycle. I would say the smashing majority of any example here has reefers that didn't know that, which is why they're linked here.

*that's good feedback and I know you aren't trying to troll, so here in a bit I'll go rewrite the first post to make the goals clearer. thanks for that input.

 

[PNW_squidz]

What's a "cycler"?

 

[brandon429]

try and figure it out using context clues, my spoon feeding hand is tired from handling the type responses to those who are never going to post here with a link for a tank they've worked.

 

[brandon429]

reword of page 1 done, simplified. However, despite that clear wording and thirty pages of examples, I'm expecting sheer confusion by those who aren't here for legit help.

Those who are here for legit help we will get along fine, as you can see in the work examples several pages back where I was able to link some before Rev hung a pork chop around my thread as wolf bait lol.

I didn't include the octo build thread prior referenced, we had many cleaner examples on file and I chose not to include it in the rework. that example link had four years of focus, plenty.

I'm going to make the next skip cycle analysis done the new first link, whatever that may be. I can bet it will be a thread where the poster thought they were not cycled, but were based on clear visual clues we can all see on the rocks. I bet it'll take me about a week to find the new example, based on trending.

let the record reflect if anyone wants to study that build, it's still available in the quotes from Garf and crew not a prob.

 

[revhtree]

reword of page 1 done, simplified. However, despite that clear wording and thirty pages of examples, I'm expecting sheer confusion by those who aren't here for legit help.

Those who are here for legit help we will get along fine, as you can see in the work examples several pages back where I was able to link some before Rev hung a pork chop around my thread as wolf bait lol.

Just ignore those you think are trolling you and report those that break the TOS. If we deem trolling then we will remove the offenders but those asking legit questions or making legit remarks are welcome,

 

[brandon429]

sounds fair. good deal.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ll try once again. Page 1 is not clear to me.

Can you list your step by step directions for someone setting up a new tank with live rock from a pet store?

Is it as simple as

1. Fill tank with salt water.
2. Add live rock from store.
3. Add fish the next day?

 

[brandon429]

I'll let you discern that off the myriad thread examples, find us one that wasn't that way and I'll remove it from the example list. I don't remember telling them they had to wait longer than one minute to add fish, let's go back and find a few examples and see if I said it needed a day's wait. I don't remember ever saying that. Sellers at the reef conventions don't wait +1 day to stock their reefs with a hundred grand in animals for sale, and, they don't wait an extra day to setup the unsold animals back at the home shop they skip cycled back from the convention.

I'm aligning new reefers with what convention pros do, regarding cycling. They don't hesitate, they don't fail, they don't reef with an API ammonia checker in a holster on fast draw. they simply command their reefs, we can all do that.


In exchange, can you in return show me (1) example you've ever seen in your reefing career where a failed cycle attempt happened in a display reef, and the stuff died? Make it a thread you were actively in, from any site/old reefcentral included. just one will do, we're trying to find any patterns there as well for the worst case scenario outcome risk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'll let you discern that off the myriad thread examples, find us one that wasn't that way and I'll remove it from the example list. I don't remember telling them they had to wait longer than one minute to add fish, let's go back and find a few examples and see if I said it needed a day's wait. I don't remember ever saying that. Sellers at the reef conventions don't wait +1 day to stock their reefs with a hundred grand in animals for sale, and, they don't wait an extra day to setup the unsold animals back at the home shop they skip cycled back from the convention.

I'm aligning new reefers with what convention pros do, regarding cycling. They don't hesitate, they don't fail, they don't reef with an API ammonia checker in a holster on fast draw. they simply command their reefs, we can all do that.


In exchange, can you in return show me (1) example you've ever seen in your reefing career where a failed cycle attempt happened in a display reef, and the stuff died? Make it a thread you were actively in, from any site/old reefcentral included. just one will do, we're trying to find any patterns there as well for the worst case scenario outcome risk.

Seriously? This new cycling science doesn’t even provide a recommended protocol?

I’m not going to try to decipher your work threads to get a protocol.

If you cannot provide a protocol, what good are the work threads?

 

[Lasse]

no, it was in agreement you'd missed the shrimp, which is the top water quality indicator we keep in reefing. I didn't want you to think free ammonia was the killer of his sps, or anything else in the tank.

the shrimp thing is a pattern I noticed years ago while working cycle troubleshoots.

Name top weakest reef organism that will not tolerate bad params

1. (subject to modification if we find a weaker occupant of #1) Lysmata cleaner shrimp 2. Crinoidea (salinity drift intolerants) 3.? if there's better 1 and 2 let me know I'll update. everything will die in reefing if params drift far enough which ones go first which ones go and then...

www.reef2reef.com

the way I discerned that pattern was by an inquisitive / naturally helpful nature wanting to define then refine some of the conflicts in today's cycle training. I didn't learn that by constantly going into someone's threads just to make arguments.

again, just now, there was a link related to something we're discussing. I get that it's a one-sided deal, always apparently, but it's to show I have no trouble maintaining my own criteria when I'm allowed to run a thread in peace.

Instead of using non deadly tests and science you suggest to use a living organism as test method. If It die - the water parameters are not good but if it survive you can add more inhabitants with your eye on the shrimp if it survive or not.........

I use a fish from the first day in my 15 step method - but not as a test organism - instead its my ammonia pump that I manage with the feeding schedule in a way that elevated (sublethal/lethal) NH3 values do not occur. No risk for the organism.


Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

Lasse, can you respond here vs dodge, I'm building a proof that you haven't seen one either:

The importance of nitrite measurements in a reef aquarium

I use a ORP probe and there is few things I can knit to that in the DT tank. But the ORP probe in my anaerobic part of my reversed DSB is the one that manage the control of my denitrification, flow and addition of organic carbon. IME - the nitrification cycle is one of the most sensitive...

www.reef2reef.com

I asked for some clear input from you there, been crickets silent so far.

 

[MnFish1]

I like how a link request, so simple, is dodged. I didn't think you'd ever seen one by the way, just wanted to see how you'd admit it.



I take back what I said about you not trolling, it was, based on your response above.

I don't mind that nobody here has seen a failed cycle, it means we're likely to keep having successes by not testing.

If you look at my build thread - you'll see - it started with about 1/2 live rock from my old tank, 1/2 new dry rock, and all of the fish from the old tank. The transfer want without any problem.

 

[brandon429]

MN

If you could not pull off a tank transfer I would be astounded. I know you can move 'em well.

But when I post a brand new example here in a week or so, that'll be someone who isn't nuanced to the game just yet

This is a thread for mostly cycling newcomers.

 

[MnFish1]

I also just transferred 8 med-larger discus from a 210 gallon tank to a 72 gallon bow front - I hung 2 HOB filters on the back - and added bottled bacteria - I haven't tested anything yet - the fish look fine.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I like how a link request, so simple, is dodged. I didn't think you'd ever seen one by the way, just wanted to see how you'd admit it.



I take back what I said about you not trolling, it was, based on your response above.

I don't mind that nobody here has seen a failed cycle, it means we're likely to keep having successes by not testing.

What are you talking about? I haven’t even said whether I think your protocol is reasonable or not because you refuse to give one. What am I supposed too link without even knowing what the point is?

Calling me a troll for asking you to clarify your suggestions is not at all reasonable.

I will no longer participate in this discussion.

 

[brandon429]

MN hey that's unique for sure for us, a freshwater cycle challenge where nitrite is the burner and ammonia isnt. I expect they'll be just fine.

OK Randy. I thought what you wrote was offensive too, but I still like reading your chemistry articles for sure. I think it will be better for my thread if people who aren't going to give direct example participation links stay out of the pile-on. There's no way the others are going to relent, so that's at least -1 less person dogpiled on top.

If everyone currently posting left, I'd have the original thread I started with which was just simple links for cycles I called or changed the course/direction of the thread at hand, we'd have the ending results, and my thread would be 100% positive.

this is not written to appease pros, chemistry masters, its just a big pattern link I can use as proof to those that dont understand skip cycling. they can see in the myriad examples success using a method they'd never heard of before.

 

[brandon429]

I do consider the sheer inability of any cycling umpire to provide an example of a truly failed cycle they've directly seen an aspect of updated cycling science.


Old cycling science painted the risk as high, not low, constant, many-fold, for thirty years or more.

Waiting for Lasses input. I'm sure he's seen an aquatic production pond fail at a fish hatchery, but I'm asking for simple reef tank links from a thread he worked.

If I can't find a single fail example, much less 3, from the top reefers I know, then that's amazing and we should quit painting these risks to readers that we can't produce.

 

[brandon429]

Just got Lasse's answer, it met the predictions in place.

Nobody here has seen one failed cycle in their reefing career that they can clearly link, no recent examples, no past ones, that's amazing. I figured I'd get at least 4.

Right now, Bean is combing the web furiously for links of anything, failed acclimations/anything we can pin on ammonia lol. post what u find Bean

 

[Lasse]

Sellers at the reef conventions don't wait +1 day to stock their reefs with a hundred grand in animals for sale, and, they don't wait an extra day to setup the unsold animals back at the home shop they skip cycled back from the convention.

I have been done this - we always have with cycled filters and some old water - when we was back home - the fish get into the same aquarium they have been before.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

@Lasse did u think it was cool I didn't wreck your thread into oblivion, or post twenty times over and over to rub it in that we did not get to see the null outcome? that's how gentlemen reef

I wasn't asking for crash examples from your thread, it was any that you've ever seen since you've been reefing and can link back for us.